Why did you come back?

[RCJames]

I have to ask these question since my wife is asking.

If you have come back to SA, why did you come back?

Where in SA are you staying now?

How long did you stay in OZ and where did you stay?

Look forward to your responses

[RCJames]

So are the restaurants that bad?

Is the booze that expensive that one cannot drink?

[HansaPlease]

So are the restaurants that bad?

Is the booze that expensive that one cannot drink?

No, and no.

There is a huge range of restaurants, from dingy pubs, to fine dining. Prices vary greatly.

Booze is expensive in Rand terms, but again, when you earn Aus $, it's affordable.

I've never gone thirsty, let's put it that way

Ok guys, could we drop the stories of how brave we are an how we try to solve one problem - bad driving with a worse problem, violence?

[Bronwyn&Co]

One day someone might actually read this and not realise you gentlemen are joking....?

[Fish]

One day someone might actually read this and not realise you gentlemen are joking....

They would reply but Australian jails block the internet

[elleneo]

I'd love a thread asking " why did you come back" to oz after immigrating once, going back to SA and yen returning to aus say a year or two later?

[Crossedover]

Thank you for this necessary topic...

I lived in the US for a year and travelled quite a lot in that time and what stood out for me is just how different every town was AND how I could see that there was a place for everyone. As in SA there are towns you know you can live in and those you just couldn't. For many of us we arrive in Aus and it is a total gamble as to where you ouch down and I think that 'location' can be key to your/ my happiness.

I would like to see myself try another town/ city before we called it quits on Aus. Also I know the weather makes a difference to your experience. On our LSD... We arrived in Sydney it was sunny and we loved it... We never looked at it as a place to live but it had lots going for it.... Touched down in Brisbane , graffiti on the toilet doors, overcast and grey.... Sea all choppy and mis and we we did not like it at all. Despite this being our first choice of destination coming from Durban. Then off to 'play it safe Perth' it just seemed so doable... So safe and easy, so sunny... But maybe lacking that excitement factor of the East cost?!? But we initially felt it was the place for us... NOW things have turned on their heads and we are looking at Sydney again.... I like to think if Sydney is not for us we will try another city before calling it quits.

Aus is a vast place and each place vastly different... I am sure there is a spot suited for each of us... Don't loose hope.... Try a little move before making a huge move home.

Good luck everyone, I know I will need luck, love and great perseverance come the new year.... And God by my side of course!

[KarinWise]

Crossingover,

What you say is soooo true.

Very wise, and may you find your " happy place" here in Aus.

I think no matter where we go in the world, we will never be 100% happy with the place we live in.

( anybody out there that begs to differ on this? )

Yes, try the different cities, it's just very pricey to move in Australia .

For me, I know no matter where I go on this continent, it's just not for me.

I have travelled Aus extensively, just for that very reason. Thought my place was somewhere else in this vast country.

Never felt right anywhere. You know the feeling when something is just " right" . For me it's all about gut feel.

Heart over head -maybe that's wrong, but it just works for me.

[Bronwyn&Co]

My uncle (who was trying to convince us to try Cape Town before we left Pretoria) told me 'You live between your ears'.

Sounds weird and I didn't agree at the time, but I think he was right. I'm that sort of person, always wanting a new experience, car, house, lol. Can't settle. That makes things harder.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Bronwyn&Co

[KarinWise]

Your uncle has it 100% covered.

A wise, wise man.

That life we have between our ears can be very interesting indeed.Very enlightening, liberating but also destructive.

A restless soul and a wandering spirit? Will they ever find peace?

Will they go searching the world never to be fulfilled?

Maybe that is the problem with people that have a restless space between their ears.

Maybe that's my problem.

Has anybody out there ever found their perfect place?

Worrying thoughts-is there actual utopia and total contentment out there? What makes us believe that it exists?

Is it the place or the space? ( between those restless ears)

[joweni]

I think the answer to all these questions is knowing yourself. We had a lovely farm,beautiful house etc etc but between "my ears" I knew that I would always have that little nugget of fear inside, that my children would never be safe in South Africa. Coming from Zimbabwe and then living on a farm in SA I always felt that one day,one of the family would become a victim of random crime and could I live with that if I knew that I hadn't done ALL and EVERYTHING to keep my family safe. Knowing the answer to that question made our decision to come to Oz a bit easier -it has been a tough road but our kids are happy,safe,well educated,employed and buying their own homes. We are secure and settled -Oz is not the garden of Eden but it is a pretty good place to live and grow old.

[Sunnyskies]

I think the more we move the more likely we are to move again, sometimes our contentment in or with a place is more borne from the fear of the unknown but once we seize the day it becomes easier to do again and then we believe we are restless. Bit like when you resign from your first real job, you are stressed and emotional, but when you do it the third time those you leave behind are more upset about your departure than you are.

It would be interesting to know if those whose children have left the coop have stayed close to where parents live (or at least the same city) and how many moved onto new cities. I definitely feel that my children are more likely to travel and live away from me (at least for a time and until they are looking for a babysitter) than I ever was .

[RosFam]

I'd love a thread asking " why did you come back" to oz after immigrating once, going back to SA and yen returning to aus say a year or two later?

Hey Elleneo,

I think I can give you some insight into this. When we make the move to Oz we have dreams and certain ideas in our head what the freedom shoujdl be like and how life is going to progress. Not for one moment did I think that i would encounter ex-saffers there we openly say that "dont like the place" , or that "South africa was a much better life", or that "if most people had known how hard migration is , they wouldnt have done it", but I did. Quite regularly. When this struggle starts to become your reality and the honeymoon has worn off, you become susceptible to influence. Should things happen back in SA, which you haven't quite let go of yet as you are still reading the news , still chatting to friends, still participating on Saffer forums , still listening to 5Fm streamed over the net to hear a good old raw saffer accent, its easy to loose your purpose in why you came in the first instance. Fromt this point its only a few rolls of the dice that can push you back to SA , and in some people cases this is what happens.

Once you get back to SA, and realise that what you had been dreaming of in Oz , is still there in a form, but a very different one to what you were feeling when you were there. Humans are great a blocking out the bad and only recalling the good, unless of course you had severe trauma living in SA. Slowly we get used to having family again , the novelty of the food wears off , and we find ourselves back in the same situation before we left , only this time probably a little more depressed , as we now have some insight into what freedom , choice and a civilized (semi ) society means on a daily basis. So the process begins again, this time a little more wearily, as we know now the risks associated with the move that weren't as visible the first time around.

Someone said earlier that we live in our minds... I think fear is one of the main driving factor lots of people minds when making the decision. It really shouldnt be, fear goes away and we are left with bills, no family, no help. There has got to be a stronger motivator than fear.

I hope i have made some sense

[DXB2OZ]

While there is no substitute for actually experiencing daily life in a place, you also need to remember there are two entirely separate decisions:

1. Choosing to leave South Africa

2. Choosing where you want to live - is it Australia, or is Australia just an option because you can get in? Sounds harsh, but it is true.

Pretend for a moment you are an alien, floating above the third rock from the sun. You have to choose where to land. Compile a dossier of the options, listing out all the pros and cons of each. Then weight them - it's not about how many points on each list, it's about how much each point means to you.

Forget for a moment whether or not to leave SA and focus on where you want to arrive. It may be SA. It may be Oz. It may be France, in which case you need to sign up for French lessons.

I found reading the negative posts extremely helpful in our decision process. As far as possible, try to gather info about the good, the bad and the downright ugly. Then choose your ugly.

Australia is not South Africa. It is Australia. Some of it is lovely, some of it is not. It is not for everyone. It is for some.

[RosFam]

I think the process of choosing where you want to live is not as idealistic as floating above the planet, and choosing a place where you want to live, Not many of us have had the luxury of being able to explore all viable places on the planet that we can migrate. For many its determined by things like family that went before, which country will accept you and simple things like climate and culture. Whilst all this is a good start , nothing can really prepare you for living in a place in totality. I think accepting a place is key to happiness , be that in SA , Oz or even France.

DXB2OZ, did you find your reality in Melb matching what you had read ? Granted you have only just arrived so are probably going through a tough time at the moment.

[DXB2OZ]

RosFam, my point was more to illustrate the difference between wanting to leave somewhere and wanting to go somewhere. It helps if you make a conscious decision to go to Australia, instead of just leaving South Africa.

We were extremely fortunate in that we were able to do an LSD, as well as managing to wangle on more trip before we finally arrived, so that did help us to prepare.

I do find the reality matching the research, but I will say that my LSD was a massive shock to the system. It wasn't that any of the comments had been misleading or that anything was completely contrary to what had been said, it was just totally different to what I expected.

I don't know what I expected, which isn't helpful. Logically I knew that Australia wasn't some giant Crocodile Dundee set. I knew about Sydney opera house, had heard about the Great Ocean Road, seen pictures of koalas. There was just a vibe, a something that I wasn't expecting - and I loved it.

If I think about it, I find Australia gentler than I had expected. I can imagine with time this may become a bit boring, but at the moment it's great. It's less aggressive, less loud, more introspective. Sorry, I know that probably isn't much help to those still trying to make a decision, but it's the best I got. Give me six months and I will hopefully be able to come up with something a bit more concrete.

[Erik]

When this struggle starts to become your reality and the honeymoon has worn off, you become susceptible to influence. Should things happen back in SA, which you haven't quite let go of yet as you are still reading the news , still chatting to friends, still participating on Saffer forums , still listening to 5Fm streamed over the net to hear a good old raw saffer accent, its easy to loose your purpose in why you came in the first instance. Fromt this point its only a few rolls of the dice that can push you back to SA , and in some people cases this is what happens.

I think that might be part of the problem. Holding on to your "great" life back in RSA. Just constantly submerging yourself in RSA culture makes you completely shut of from experiencing the new culture you suddenly find yourself in. When I move, I try to stay away from RSA people and culture until I have found, experienced and understand a new culture. Otherwise you will never integrate well. It's worked well, twice so far.

[Crossedover]

We do build these pictures in our mind...however realistic we may try to be.... The reality of landing is unlikely to match our mental pictures.

On our LDS we were loving Sydney...Then we flew to Brisbane and were excited to meet up with friends who had landed 3 months earlier... We were excited to see how well they had settled in, I had my book ready to write down tips, only to be told after a few minutes of being with them that they hated it and were heading home. Talk about shattering our romantic bubble. I must say their news actually rocked us for a few days. I am so grateful to have had this wake up whilst we were there. It made me do a self check on my motives and my views on this move. It had made me more weary but maybe a bit more realistic too.

I have no doubt it will be jolly hard but we need to try and remember why it was that we all started to look at the whole process of immigrating in the first place. Aus may be less exciting and thrilling but we can't have it all.

Good luck everyone... Give the move all you can!

[Johnno]

I think accepting a place is key to happiness , be that in SA , Oz or even France.

RosFam, excuse me for only quoting this one sentence from the entire post which I agree 100% with but I have been in Oz for over 13 years, participated in many forums and discussions and the sentences quoted above is EXACTLY what boil down to.

We cannot force ourselves to be happy. I could raise 100 points off the top of my head why theoretically people should be happy in Oz and I'd struggle to raise a dozen for SA. However, when you accept something for what it is, not what it was, what it could be, should be or what it is compared to a thousand other things but what it is, the I agree, only then can you be happy.

We have friends and family in SA who have accepted SA for what it is. They acknowledge the crime, the politicians, the corruption but they have embraced the good with the bad. They live the lifestyle, seek out the opportunities and most of all they are proud of who they are and what they achieve together. There's a raw sense belonging and hence why even when one has been living abroad for many years you need to make en effort to stop referring to SA as home. I once heard an Aussie bloke say "home is where your mother lives" and that really hit a nerve with me.

[Nev]

Yep, i heard something similar:

Migrant parents are taking the knock so that their kids can have a better life

[Neels]

Australia is not South Africa. It is Australia. Some of it is lovely, some of it is not. It is not for everyone. It is for some.

Yeh DXB2OZ, fair dinkum mate!

You are so correct with that statement! I have had a couple of close shaves from people wanting to "moer" me for saying that. But if you move to Bloemfontein expecting to live like you did in Nelspruit, boy are you in for a shock! Not even the Spur or Wimpy will be the same...

My personal opinion here is, if you go to Australia to remain a South African, you are not going to last long before you want to go back to what you want to be... (does it make sense?)

[marko]

Sorry to barge in, but just a thought in the madness...I got emotional reading this thread and had to say something. Maybe it will be worth something for someone in the end....

Two days ago I searched the word joy for some reason, but found a google on joy in God.

So I searched it and I was amazed. Maybe that empty feeling people feel is the missing piece of the Holy Spirit or something about belief. Who knows? I mean this whole planet was given to us by Him according to the Word, so why should we feel lost on any piece of earth that we stand with our hands in the wind, may it be in a desert or on a snow capped mountain. We should never feel alone.

People rush and get so absorbed into daily life. You should pause and look at the smaller things that is natural that tells us the earth we have Iis still real. Its not just some dream...and that the things we have, our posessions, really isnt any part of us as humans, but just superficially created for this current life setting.

We become what we create. We use our own psychology against ourselves. Just look at advertising. Its pure psychology to convince you that you need something, that you are worthy of it. They will convince you that you will save money even though you are spending it.

The fact is, as a human you dont really need as much. You have to fullfill your physiological needs(food, water, warmth etc), then your security needs (income and a sready supply of the physiological) and from there on the other needs such as self esteem, self fullfillment etc.

The thing is here in SA the first two basic human needs are sort of missing or will soon be(according to my deductions), and without those two needs fullfilled one cannot build on the other needs as they are dependant on the first two.

So holding on to the luxuries in life, but with the basis to support all of it going out the door, it really is pointless.

In my eyes we as white SA peeps are cursed. We are being hated and oppressed. We love what we have, but we have to give it all up without actual choice in the matter.

Its really obvious where everything is going. I experience hate everyday of my life. I just pick up on it. I know im not wanted here. I also feel and see the frustration of other white people around me daily. Its sad really. I feel like an immigrant in my own country (actually I am half Serbian haha), so what differerence will there be in moving?

Its a proven scientific fact that white people prefer being around other white people (sorry I dont recall the source) and I guess that goes for any race. What does that tell us? Is racism actually a normal thing? Its a human emotion from deep within us. Its preprogrammed.

We know we would rather trust a sranger with the same skin color than someone else.

Its sort of primordial if thats the correct word.

So why is the world fighting it if its actually natural?

Well if it is, and its been proven, just search the net, then that means that things will never ever work out for our rainbow nation and especially for whites because of the past.

There will always be that mistrust in every persons core for the other culture and as soon as there is the minority presence, like now, then that colour just becomes an inconvenience in the long run and will fade away as basics are taken away and witheld naturally.

You cannot plant all these different plants and flowers in the same garden. Nature(the environment) will select accordingly and only some will thrive as the others die off.

This post was sooo irrelevant to the subje t matter, but nevertheless im going to enjoy mu buffalo wings from spur hmm their the best....while I still can!

Edited September 26, 2014 by marko

[DXB2OZ]

Marko, some of your post was really lovely and quite touching. The rest actually just made me sad.

I would question a number of assumptions, namely is everyone on this forum white or isn't this a forum for South Africans moving to Australia? Are only whites emigrating? Just because someone is white, does that mean they agree with these sentiments?

I would also be very, very careful of the net, not only because any Joe Soap can publish online. For every "scientific study" out there, there's probably at least two more saying something completely different. Anyone give their kids the MMR vaccine?

My children were neither born nor raised in South Africa. They have spent their entire lives in a multi-cultural environment, mingling with children from all over the world, different colours, different religions, different languages. They have never heard about prejudice at home. They are not naturally prejudiced, they don't cling to their "own kind", they go where they are happy and included. By included, I mean welcomed. Racism in South Africa is not a one way street.

To be honest, one of the reasons I did not want to return to SA was so that my children wouldn't grow up surrounded by the hate, bitterness and racism I observed on every holiday. Not blatant and by no means in everyone, but simmering just below the surface in so many. And I grew tired of people assuming I shared their point of view just because of the colour of my skin.

[HansaPlease]

I must admit DXB, the last bit of your post rings true with me. I hate it when I meet somebody, they find out I'm a South African and they crack a racist joke or make a racist comment and think I'd enjoy it or agree with it just because I'm South African and white.

I do like inappropriate jokes, but only if they're funny, not because I'm racist.

[Bronwyn&Co]

I must admit DXB, the last bit of your post rings true with me. I hate it when I meet somebody, they find out I'm a South African and they crack a racist joke or make a racist comment and think I'd enjoy it or agree with it just because I'm South African and white.

I do like inappropriate jokes, but only if they're funny, not because I'm racist.

I couldn't agree more Hansa. Well said.

[Mara]

I agree with Hansa as well. That was one of the major pitfalls we had whilst living in New Mexico in the USA, just because we were South African they immediately presumed we would be racist. It really did not sit well with us, and quite honestly, on more than one occasion I was stared at when I disliked, and said so, about a comment that was made.