Changing employers on RSMS 187

[jpokennedy]

Hi there

I have been with my current employer for 2.5 years. In 2013 my RSMS 187 was approved requiring me to work 2 years with my sponsored employer.

I have since worked 1 of the 2 required years as per the 187.

My employer made various promises at the interview stage of career development etc. that would occur within 2 years, when confronting them re this after 2 years they stated that this would not be possible atm. (No, I didnt get it in writing, most employers wouldnt put it in writing anyway)

Also I proofed to my employer that I perform way more than what is outlined in my position description etc.(I knew I would probably have to submit proof to immigration at some point if I wanted to go down this road)

My question is, would it be possible to move to another employer, also regional, based on the above? I have made an effort to stay with my current employer but feels like I have been misled re career development.

Don’t get me wrong, I love my job, but something better has come along, and if my current employer delivered on their promises I would not have considered the move. So just wanted to get my facts straight.

I have emailed immigration and phoned 131881 (The call centre operators don’t really know much re the matter)

Thoughts?

Cheers

JP

[AndreaL]

The 187 is slightly different to the 186 in that you are supposed to try your very best to stay with that employer for the 2 years, them not offering career advancement that you discussed or even had in writing is nothing to do with your obligation to try and complete those 2 years, after all you agreed to be employed in that role and with those specific duties at that time....................professional development or lack of, is not a good enough reason to not be able to complete your 2 years with them.......................if you pursued this they could argue that the current financial climate means they have to make budget cuts and that includes training and professional development.

Valid reasons for being unable to fulfil your obligation are.............having to move to another area because a member of your family needs regular medical treatment not available where you are.....................your child has been selected to play sports at a certain level or has needs that require you to move...............and things like that.

That said, it will only be a problem with DIBP if you leave your current employer and they decide to complain to DIAC about it.

If you have done 18 months of your 2 years, DIBP are most likely not going to do anything to you, or if you have compelling personal reasons, but not offering career development or advancement isn't reason enough...........IMO

When I lived in Perth I got to know one of the the DIAC employees who had a lot to do with a Regional Sponsored Migration Development Programme, which was to attract people to areas like Albany, Bunbury etc.................he told me about a South African lady who didn't like the regional town she lived in and pestered him constantly to see if they could get out of the two years............perhaps if she had asked rather than demanded, but the chap said that because of her manner with him, he was not swayed in any way and they had to complete the 2 years.

I simply don't believe you have any case for arguing otherwise. With regard to your P.D. you could argue that you are being asked to perform duties that are outside of your P.D. and have not received sufficient training in that regard, but any counter argument would be based on the policies and procedures of that company..............and most companies have it written somewhere that employees may be asked to perform duties outside of their P.D. when required.

It actually IS something you would need to address through Fair Work Australia, and not an issue for immigration, but you wouldn't have a hope in hell without any sort of paper trail that proved this. It is a "He said, she said" argument.

It sucks, but they aren't doing anything wrong.

[chzaau]

I don't think immigration is going to handle a contract dispute you have with your employer, that is fair work Australia that you will have to approach regarding that.

[jpokennedy]

Chzaau, where do you get your information from? Really.........

Fair work australia have nothing to do with my visa.

Any constructive and relevant feedback would be appreciated from anyone else.

[Jordy]

This has been discussed several times on the forum. The one line of thinking says that as your visa is a permanant visa, you are free to change employers with no new visa required, even if that new job is not regional. The guarentee by the employer that the job is available for 2 years is not a requirement per se that you need to fulfil but rather to get the visa approved. The other line of thinking says that you have a moral obligation to fulfil the terms of the visa.

The point of disagreement is whether the 2 year agreement is actualy a visa requirement to be fulfilled. Those who argue against it say that no such conditions are actually placed on the visa once it is granted, neither in the approval letter not on the visa itself.

I found this thread http://www.saaustralia.org/index.php/topic/34831-rsms-857/?hl=rsms which discusses the issue.

What does your actual approval letter and visa say? I know we came on this visa and no where that I recall was the condition stipulated post grant for our visa.

[jpokennedy]

Hi Jordy

I have a 187 Regional Employer Sponsored Visa, one of the conditions of the visa is that I work 2 years for my sponsor.

If i simply changed employers for no reason there is a chance the my visa can be cancelled.

However, I know some people have left their employers without doing the required 2 years (Applicable to regional areas)

My approval letter states 2 years.

But im pretty sure there is still a way around this...

Edited March 24, 2014 by jpokennedy

[Jordy]

Hi Jordy

I have a 187 Regional Employer Sponsored Visa, one of the conditions of the visa is that I work 2 years for my sponsor.

If i simply changed employers for no reason there is a chance the my visa can be cancelled.

However, I know some people have left their employers without doing the required 2 years (Applicable to regional areas)

Sorry I edited my post above so you may not have seen - my question is: Are you assuming one of the conditions is that work for 2 years? I know that it is a requirment for the sponsor nomination to be approved but that is not the same thing as saying it is a condition that you must fulfil. Can you tell me where it places this requirment upon yourself (either on your approval letter or on the visa itself).

Do you get the difference? Just because the sponsor had to have the job available for two years does not mean that you have remain in the position for two years, does it? I am thinking along the lines of - either you have the right to stay in Australia permanently (ie. a permanent resident) or you do not have that right. As far as I think there are not different categories of PR.

Would you mind going back to your original approval letter and visa stamp and just checking if there are any conditions of grant? I am guessing that you wont find anything about 2 years on there.

[jpokennedy]

Hi Jordy

The following is stated on the approval:

"remain employed in the nominated position in the regional area for at least two (2) years."

Do you see this as 1) that I should remain employed in the nominated job title in the regional area (Meaning that I would be able to move) , or should stay employed in the nominated position at my sponsored employer in the regional area?

Edited March 24, 2014 by jpokennedy

[Jordy]

Well that ends my theory then.

[jpokennedy]

Hi Jordy

The following is stated on the approval:

"remain employed in the nominated position in the regional area for at least two (2) years."

Do you see this as 1) that I should remain employed in the nominated job title in the regional area (Meaning that I would be able to move) , or should stay employed in the nominated

[chzaau]

jpokennedy sorry let me say my point in a different manner.

You started off the thread saying you where unhappy that your employer was not sticking to there side of the contract, that is what I understood ? The second item your wrote was that you wanted to know if you could change your visa.

I answered your first item saying that fair work Australia are the folks that resolve work place issues, I do not think immigration will assist you in this regard. I did not answer your second question regarding the condition of your visa because I could not and this is something immigration related.

As a second point view, when you ask for some advise on the forum rather be more humble to accept what you get, even if it might not be exactly what you want to hear... I'm sorry I misunderstood your question and that my advise may not have been exactly to the point of your question.

[Jordy]

Hi Jordy

The following is stated on the approval:

"remain employed in the nominated position in the regional area for at least two (2) years."

Do you see this as 1) that I should remain employed in the nominated job title in the regional area (Meaning that I would be able to move) , or should stay employed in the nominated position at my sponsored employer in the regional area?

I would guess Number 2 because the nominated position is what was completed by a particular sponsoring employer and refers to a specific job for a specific employer.

[jpokennedy]

Chzaau - I do appreciate you trying to help, however, I would rather point out advice/feedback that I know for a fact is wrong due to other members using the forum as well and I certainly would not want to circulated false information

Edited March 24, 2014 by jpokennedy

[followmylead]

We are on a RSMS 187 and it is my understanding that our visa condition is that we remain in the sponsored position with the sponsor employer (as the position is linked to the sponsor), in the sponsored region for a 2 year period.

[jpokennedy]

Thanks followmylead

However there are circumstances where this would not apply and various people have apparently done this, hence the question

[SurferMan]

Hi JPOK,

The visa rules are clear, but in your case you present a compelling case to leave. The rules are "INTEND" to stay with your sponsor in THAT role for 2 years. I am applying for a 186 and also have to sign a declaration that I "intend" to stay in that role for 2 years. But things do change, and circumstances vary so the best laid plans may end up all diddly squat.

DIBP wont get into a dispute with your employer unless there are big reasons to do so, (fraud etc)

I don't know of any 187 visa being cancelled for the above, you have worked for them for ages and have therefore showed not only intent but commitment as well. The question then boils down to:

1: Can you stick it out for another year, or is what they promised you but will no longer give of such a mature that you feel you are going to be/are materially prejudiced in your current role? If the answer is yes, move on.

2: If you feel the risk is too high, the answer is to suck it up for another year.

Given I dont know what you do, the market is a bit iffy, I would hang it out. But if its hell in there, leave. Just are just my 50 cents. Disclaimer, I am not a migration agent.

Cheers

Surferman

[Eva]

You can change employers, you are supposed to stay regional for two years though. I personally know a few people who didn't even bother with keeping that end of the bargain and moved to cities in less than one year and had no issues with the dept of immigration.

[jpokennedy]

Thank you all for the feedback.

Much appreciated

[AndreaL]

Start looking anyway, it won't hurt and yes, I can't see immigration having a go at you if you are still in a regional area. Good luck.

[jpokennedy]

I was asked by a company to apply for a vacant position they had (massive package so who on earth would not have a go at it).

That got me thinking of what I was promised at my current employer and what other duties I’m performing that’s not required of me .......blah blah blah

Long story short, applied and got the job, so I’m pushed for time, need to make up my mind asap.

what to do...................

[SurferMan]

Pull the trigger man. And pray, God will answer you.

[Jordy]

Well whatever you decide, make sure you understand the visa implications before you do.

I couldn't imagine any offer being worthwhile if you have to reapply for a new visa if there is a risk you may not get it. Sometime a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[RYLC]

Well whatever you decide, make sure you understand the visa implications before you do.

I couldn't imagine any offer being worthwhile if you have to reapply for a new visa if there is a risk you may not get it. Sometime a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I agree. Don't be the person who posts here down the track that you have lost your visa and it's all your employer's fault and it's so unfair etc. Two years is not long. Sometimes we just have to suck it up sorry to say.

[jpokennedy]

Well if there is a way around it, I will definately take that route

[Sonny]

Hi jpokennedy

Did you end up quitting your job? Has your visa been canceled? 

[Eva]

On 12/1/2015 at 5:43 PM, Sonny said:

Hi jpokennedy

Did you end up quitting your job? Has your visa been canceled? 

 

I do not believe visas get cancelled very easily so very much doubt it, it will be interesting to see if you get a reply though!