HadEnoughofJuju Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I just thought that I would share this with the rest of the forum because it's very easy to get caught up in the excitement of selling a vehicle you have been trying to get rid of for the last couple of months and suddenly when you get a buyer that does not even negotiate and just offers the asking price you are only too eager to sell.My wife posted the car ad a couple of weeks ago and she received an email from a guy wanting to know more, see photos and get a bit of history on the vehicle which is normal. Suddenly that interest changed to a seemingly firm commitment to wanting to buy the vehicle but then he started with "I'm out of state and can't view the vehicle", "I will send a personal courier to collect the vehicle and sign documents" and "Please help me out" I must say I am the sceptical one, I don't trust anyone these days and question everything. I felt a bit uneasy about the whole thing but of course still wanted to take advantage of the sale if I could.What threw the red flags up almost immediately was the email that started with "I forgot to mention that my courier needs payment before he will come and collect the vehicle, I have tried to pay via the internet but can't, please can you assist me by making the payment via a Western Union branch near you..." and carried on with a sob story explaining why he can't make the payment. A few minutes later I received a PayPal confirmation of payment email stating that the money would be held until I made the Western Union deposit and sent through confirmation. Luckily I know how to check the origins and headers of an email to confirm it's source and validity which showed me that the emails could not have possibly come from PayPal.Just a couple of things to check and do when selling stuff online and using a PayPal account to receive funds.Never give your contact details or address to anyone until you have verified payment has been received and are sure that you are not being scammed. Once you receive the payment confirmation email from PayPal, ignore it and don't trust it, scammers are good and can copy almost any email or website. Never follow any links in the email even if it seems legitimate and appears to come from PayPal. Instead, open a browser and manually type the PayPal address in and login in. Check that the payment has been made and that the transaction is reflected in you transaction history. Once you have confirmed payment and are happy that the transaction is above board arrange delivery/collection of the item in a public place and take someone with you, never use your home address.PayPal is not affiliated to Western Union in anyway and will never withhold funds paid to you by someone else, nor will they every request you to enter personal details via an email or external link to PayPal.Unfortunately we live in a first world country with first world problems and first world criminals who have a vast range of technological tools to help them fool and steel from the innocent.I guess the best thing to do when you're selling stuff is no matter how desperately you want or need to get rid of something, if you are feeling uneasy about a transaction or you suspect you are a potential victim of a scam, rather just walk away. Your safety and sanity are not worth it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermoose Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Someone tried to use Paypal to scam me on Gumtree a few weeks ago too. Told him he couldn't catch me!Here's how the scam works:http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=46616 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadEnoughofJuju Posted March 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I bet it the same guy. Here are the emails that came from our would be scammer. Ok so I was a little suspicious. Thanks for the swift response...I am OK with the asking price.due to the nature of my job and location...i will not be able to come for inspection,am a very busy type as i work long hours everyday,i have gone through your advertisement and i am satisfied with it.As for the payment..i will be paying you via the fastest and secure way to pay online(PayPal).I have a private courier agent that will come for the pick up after the payment have been made ...so no shipping included.You can now send me your PayPal email so i can pay in right away and also include your address in your reply.If you don't have a paypal account, you can easily set up one...log on to www.paypal.com.au and sign up.all i really need from you is the exact details.Kindly delete the posting as am definitely buying it from you and it would be sad for me to make the payment only to be informed of the its sale. Thanks. This is where I started serious doubting the authenticity. How i wish to come and view this car but am out of state now. i am a marine engineer sealing,am in a ship right now at Bermuda.......I am willing to offer you $5,000 for it. I will also like you to know that i will be paying via PayPal...due to the distance as i am in Bermuda presently...I will need you to provide me with the following information to facilitate the Payment...Your (PayPal email)...With the issue of my details,transferring the name of ownership and signing of all paperwork will be done by the pick up agent so you don't have to worry about that. This is the one that raised the red flags. Oh,I need to inform you about this,just received an email from my pick agent...am most sure i did not include that in my previous email,he said he won't come for the pick up unless i pay him the agent commission fee first in order to be able to schedule a pick up time and my pick up agent Head Quarters is in the China and all commission payment made for pick up from anywhere in the world is sent to their Head Quarters in the China and the only form of payment they accept is western union money transfer. I have tried to pay online but i will need a credit card which i didn't bring aboard the ship,and there is no post office(there is usually a western union section in most post offices) or any western union agent on sea! so i have to ask you to help me with the pick up fees, i will include the $950 they charged to pick it up and take it my home(1st class treatment), to the payment i will send through PayPal, after i have made the payment. I will need you to help me send the $950 to my pick up agent through western union money transfer, the western union money transfer can be made at a post office near to you,there is always a western union agent in most post offices or online at www.westernunion.com .I will be making the payment shortly and will email you as soon as it has been done. And then I knew. I have just made the payments now and i also requested that Paypal should send a payment notification message to your inbox here and i expect Paypal to have emailed by now,please check your spam/junk folder as I sometimes get Paypal notification there,I sent $6,050 aud in all, Paypal said they would be holding the funds and it won't be credited into your account because of the excess payments of $1,050 aud i added meant for pick up and delivery, they said they have emailed you to this effect, you will need to send the $950 aud to the freighting company headquarters in China via western union money transfer,so that Paypal can credit the $6,050 aud into your account as soon as you have emailed the western union details to them, i added extra $100 aud to cover the western union charges which shouldn't be more that $20-50 aud but just to be sure i added $100 aud, Here is the pick up agent info needed to get the money sent through western union money transfer: First Name: Jianan Surname: Xu Address: Central North Fourth City: Beijing Zip Code: 100024 China I will need the full address of where it will be picked up now,as my pick up agent will contact you to book a pick up time after they have received payments but they will have to book a time that is convenient for you. At this stage I sent him a don't contact me, I'm not interested email and this is what I got in response. Thanks for the swift response...I am OK with the asking price.due to the nature of my job and location...i will not be able to come for inspection,am a very busy type as i work long hours everyday,i have gone through your advertisement and i am satisfied with it.As for the payment..i will be paying you via the fastest and secure way to pay online(PayPal).I have a private courier agent that will come for the pick up after the payment have been made ...so no shipping included.You can now send me your PayPal email so i can pay in right away and also include your address in your reply.If you don't have a paypal account, you can easily set up one...log on to www.paypal.com.au and sign up.all i really need from you is the exact details.Kindly delete the posting as am definitely buying it from you and it would be sad for me to make the payment only to be informed of the its sale. Thanks. 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BriD Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Scary the scams out there!! Thanks for the heads up!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad76 Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) Western Union is virtually a dead set indicator - not the company as such but when people suggest deposits / payments via western union stop right there! Love the audacity though - I'm going to steal your car and you cover the transportation charges!!!! Edited March 3, 2014 by Brad76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rozellem Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Yip, this is the identical scam my niece was presented with in Sydney, after she posted her scooter on Gumtree. She did not fall for it. Clever girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toitjie Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 HEOJ - Im curious, how do you check the origins of the email header then? would be good to know that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 In outlook double click the email to open it in its own window,Click on file in the top leftPropertiesThat opens up a window with a section on the technical stuff related to the email, as well as the server it came from, red flag if the from email address is different from the sending server, it means it could be "spoofed" or pretending to be from someone else"spoofing" is actually pretty easy, you can make an email appear to be from anyone you like with some really basic programming knowledge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heymanse Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 We had almost the exact same thing happen to us when we advertised my son's car on Gumtree. This was the email we received from the scammer:Thanks for mailing back,am ok with the price and the condition,i work with New Zealand Oil and Gas (NZOG) and we are presently offshore in New Zealand Taranaki Basin on kupe project.We do not have access to phone at the momes 15days off and 15days on and that's why I contacted you with internet messaging facility.Regarding the payment,i will be paying you through PayPal,please get back to me with your paypal details so i can process the payment,you can alternatively send your bsb and acct number if you have no PayPal acct.I have also contacted my courier who will come for pick up and deliver it to my place in Darwin after the whole fund has been cleared into your acct.My husband sent him a snotty remark:Sorry Mate No Cash in my hand No Car !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadEnoughofJuju Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 HEOJ - Im curious, how do you check the origins of the email header then? would be good to know thatWhat nev said, you can also click the inbox so all the emails are listed and right click on the email you want to check and then hit the properties option. Most email clients you can also open the email and hit the ctrl and u keys together and it will display the source of the email which contains the detailed headers. In Gmail you open the mail and then click on the down arrow next to the reply button in the top right hand corner of the email and select show original. In a legitimate email the reply to and from email addresses will generally be the same and the bit after the @ sign (aka domain) on all the addresses in the email header will match the smtp servers domain.In the case of a spoofed email the from email address will only match the smtp server domain while the reply to email address will be diffrent. In my case the smtp server was imap.gmail.com, the from address was xxxxxx@gmail.com but the reply to address was services@paypal.com.auMail clients by default display the reply to address and from name (which can be set to anything because it's not used to validate details) in the standard headers of an email above the subject line.Spammers have figured out that by changing certain settings in most standard email clients (outlook, winmail, thunderbird etc.) or by writing custom code in something like php or vbs they can customize the headers of an email enough to fool the general pc user. What they aren't able to do is change the way the mail server they send the mail through behaves. If you are able to do that then steeling $950 from an unsuspecting online seller is small change compared to what you can steel and who you can steel it from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toitjie Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 frightening indeed! If only these guys would use their brains and intelligence for something good and not stealing the world would be a better place 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaL Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Register with scamwatch and you can get email alerts about the latest scams and report any..http://www.scamwatch.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/693900 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadEnoughofJuju Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Na too much email comes my way already. Don't need more junk thanks. Generally I do not pay much attention to online deals and in most cases would not even consider accepting money via PayPal for a sale like this but we are a bit desperate to get rid of the vehicle so I though I would see where it led.Thankfully we have found a buyer who is local and is coming to view/collect the car on Saturday and is bringing cold hard cash. My kinda deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndreaL Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 I use Paypal a lot, for ebay and many other things, it's pretty safe if you follow the guidelines..............I never click on emails etc and always scrutinise the address, Western Union is a known favourite of African scammers etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoahWi Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 Really clever scam but it screams too good to be true. I would recommend whenever you have the feeling you are getting in a similar situation, just walk away since it is most likely a scam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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