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Where have all the good people gone?


sianvz

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Before anyone reads further, please know that this is a Christian-related post and so I ask that only those with relevant input respond.

Can anyone tell me some fantastic Christian communities in Australia that they have experienced first hand? We are really struggling with not having like-minded people around us, not in a way that we think we're better or more righteous, just that I find Christian friends we had back in South Africa that we had known for only a few months were so caring and became such good friends so quickly, they nourished our souls with conversations that were meaningful and had a purpose and gave us more support than what we are experiencing where we are. We just have nothing in common with most of the people around us. I find the conversations completely unstimulating, mostly revolting and I just need some clean and pure conversation and people who are caring and kind. Not to say I will only find this in Christians, but I think a Christian community is a good place to start because Australians seem very different to South Africans. We had plenty friends in South Africa that did not go to church but they were still raised properly, with manners and kindness. When we meet the occasional South African here we find that they are having the same experience whether they are Christians or not. I think South Africans are just raised differently.

There's constant questioning on our part about whether we need to go where there is work and then find a church or go where there is a great church and then find work. At the moment we have neither. We don't have good permanent jobs and we don't have a good church nearby being in a remote area. Everyone around us curses and blasphemes to no end and it drives us crazy. It hurts my heart - which sounds ridiculous, but I am just not used to it. Is it the area we're in or is this a normal thing for Australians?

Every day my husband and I experience something that tips us that little bit further over the edge. Maybe it's a West Australian thing? Are there more decent people over on the East Coast? Do we need to do a visit to some places that appeal to us and go to churches to see if we would fit in better there?

Yesterday I asked a lady at work to please do me a quick favour and just pop a tray of glasses in the glass washer because it was a busy day in the cellar door and she was right there and I was polishing a glass, she replied with "Well can't you do it?". I was so annoyed and disgusted that a human being can be so rude and unkind when asked something so small. Where are all the good people around here? Christian or not, it's just unreal the lack of manners and kindness. I feel like I have to be so careful what I say or do to not be judged as a snob.

We have met some lovely people here, but they are few and far between! It's like everyone here is hurt and angry and is just out to protect themselves and be tough. I'm wondering if we should be looking to relocate to an area that is more known for its Christian community or at least nicer people. I always thought it silly of people who join South African clubs etc and now I understand why!

What are others' experiences? Did you find that as long as you had a church nearby you could make new friends that were more your kind of people? Am I wanting to run away because it's not easy and is there a greater purpose for us being in this area? People just assume around here that no one is "religious" and so they have no respect for those that might be or even the slightest consideration for it. It seems like a dog-eat-dog world over here.

I think what I am experiencing is what I would do for others is what I expect others to do for me and I don't find any kind and caring people here, unlike in South Africa. Please someone give your advice or opinions that might help us find our way to a better life here in Australia, because at the moment we're feeling a bit down and want to know that there is somewhere in Australia that is the right place for us, or at least some encouragement for making it work in the situation we're in.

Edited by sianvz
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Hi Sian

I've not really had the same experience ... I came over as a pastor to a Christian community in the Eastern Wheatbelt. They welcomed and embraced us fully - an amazing introduction to life in Australia. I got involved with the Walk to Emmaus Community in the Great Southern (Katanning) and met another bunch of really good people. I am now the Community Spiritual Director. Also joined the Christian Motorcyclists Association and formed our own branch in Merredin. We joined up with the folk from Perth Metro and Mandurah for rides. We are now in Geraldton and once again a great bunch of good Christian people who have made us feel quite at home. We have had a few Saffers in each of those groups and they all have the same experience. There have also been some South Africans who have formed their own communities and not even tried to be part of this life ... for many of them, life has not been as easy (they come for counselling, so I know!)

Not sure where you are, but I pray that you will find a welcoming community and that you will make yourself fully a part of it. The Australian Christian communities of which I have been part, love the spirituality that South Africans bring and their earnestness for the Gospel.

Blessings

David

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It might just be where you are. The church my wife went to (I'm not religious), everybody almost fell over themselves to introduce themselves and have a chat with the newbies. I have found the Australians to be more open and caring than South Africans in general. You must have been living in a great place back in South Africa.

I find it strange that you think your brother is acting weird, I would not have expected charity from my siblings. We help each other out when we can, but we don't expect something for nothing, even if it's just a gesture.

Are you feeling a bit out of place in Australia and projecting your own uneasy onto other people? Do you think this will change as you settle in and get use to Australia? If you really believe that it is everyone around you, then I would suggest you try and find a place where you fit in, even if it means moving away.

I hope you find peace.

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Thanks for your encouraging words David. Sounds to me like we need to get more active in the community and find a church (even if it is 50km away) and get involved to feel a bit more like we're not alone here, which is how we feel at the moment. And then if we find that we are still not quite fitting in then we need to move to somewhere more suitable.

Erik we had some incredible friends back in South Africa, we loved them dearly and we have found it more difficult than we expected to not have them around. We know it takes time to establish new friendships so we need to be patient. With regards to my brother, I don't expect charity at all, my comments are based on what I'm used to with our relationship and I find that he is a different person to what he was 3 years ago when we were last here, which I suppose only I understand so perhaps was not something worth mentioning.

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Hi Sianz

We are on the Sunshine Coast and have joined Hillsong Church. There are quite a few campuses all over Australia and I have found the people to be very friendly, helpful and kind. The people that I have met are generally happy and friendly and are willing to give everyone a fair go. I don't know if it has something to do with where we are (very relaxed environment) but I have not met any rude people (except for a Saffa expat who has an overwhelming urge to show off what he owns...poor thing! )

I strongly believe after moving to the Sunshine Coast that one's environment plays a huge role in one's state of mind. Yes, employment is very scarce here, but life is so good. We are not living large, but for the first time we are LIVING!

These are still early days in your journey and you have nothing tying you down. If I were you I would do some exploring until I found a place to call home. In the meantime, google Hillsong church for a campus nearby.

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Thanks OYBR, we would love to join Hillsong but there isn't one in WA but there is a church in Busselton that we think is similar. I think perhaps at this stage we're feeling a bit unsettled still because we were supposed to go to Canberra and couldn't get any work and now we're down in such a beautiful country town in the South West and last time we were here that was enough for us, but we haven't got decent jobs here either and we just aren't making friends that we feel are really genuine and kind and even if they are nice friendly people, it's just really hard when no one around you is Christian and it's so frowned upon. We need to join a church even if it's a bit of a trek, because I think it's something that would help us feel a part of something more and give us a purpose.

If it comes to it, we'll move somewhere where we feel we are more suited. It must be lovely living on the Sunshine Coast, would go there in a heart beat but as you say jobs are a bit scarce.

Will need to have some quiet time and ask for guidance on this one, I don't believe we are here for no reason.

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Where are you in WA? Busselton? If so I must be honest I have found the exact opposite of what you speak. Particularly when it comes to country folk of WA. They are some of the most nicest, salt of the earth kind of people. They will go out of their way to help and support another human being. If anyone had to ask me what my favourite part of WA is I would have to say, the country folk, especially farmers. Whatever you decide, I think David is spot on...if you make an enclave / bubble of purely Christian South African folk I think you will eventually find yourself very unhappy in Australia.

Perhaps the big difference between RSA and Australia is that the different "classes" of people are all mixed in the same suburb. There just isnt a geographical divide between the various "classes" of people. I put "classes" in parenthesis because Australians like to think they dont have "classes" but there are. They just live next door to each other. Unlike South Africa which seperated them based on property prices.

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Firstly Sian...I want to give you a huge huge hug :hug:

I wanted to share something with you. When we were just starting the process of getting the visa etc. We spoke with one of the pastor's at our church. We were just having a breakfast get together, nothing serious. But his insight really stuck with me. When he heard of our plans, he said, "God is so awesome...don't you think it is amazing how he is taking his children and sending them out into the rest of the world to places that need more of Him". It totally changed my perspective on things...sometimes I do believe God has sent us somewhere to be a example. Shining his light in the darkness if you know what I mean.

My mom always used to tell me re unkind people - heap coals of fire on their heads. So be kind and gentle and loving even in the face of contempt and unkindness.

I think you perhaps should not exclude the possibility that a lot of how you are feeling is part of the difficulty of immigration in itself. Missing friends and family and the familiar. Also...another point to consider...you and your hubby were there for a while before you ever "immigrated" there. Perhaps you had such fond memories of that time in Aus that you did not fully consider how difficult the moving there forever would be.

I do remember a friend in Melbourne telling us while we were there that if we are religious...we must know we are in the minority. So your post is not the first I have heard of this. Which bring me back to my pastor's thoughts on that very thing.

From my exposure to Australians, they were all very open and friendly and kind. We are not living there yet...but during our LSD and in all our dealings with Aussies still have to come across anyone unfriendly there. But, I know we will encounter them. There is not one nation on earth that is full of good people with the same values, kindness, consideration etc. In these times we are living in...there are so many fears, so many traps, so many problems world over. Relationships are treated with less importance, and it is a doggy eat dog world over.

I will say that I have been very disappointed by South Africans in Johannesburg. Perhaps it is a different culture to Cape Town. It really is a doggy eat dog world here. I would say very few like minded people are where I am now...in South Africa. So perhaps the area you are living in does have something to do with it.

When are you planning to move to ACT? Maybe that is where you are meant to be and God is just making life uncomfortable for you in WA cos you meant to move on? Just throwing ideas out there. We have personally experienced this...things kept getting more and more difficult and uncomfortable for us here in South Africa...DH job got more and more frustrating, doors started closing...and finally we made the decision and now we are flying along. Like we finally got on the right track...onto the road God wants for us (we been praying daily for his will in our lives - guess this is his answer. Doors close, doors open)

Always here for you if you need to chat. You never alone okay!! Big hugs! :hug:

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We are in Busselton. My husband is the new pastor at Busselton baptist. We arrived a month ago. It is an incredibly warm community and we have around 10 South African families. Please, please come over on Sunday or any time. If you let us know you are coming, we will be happy to have you over for lunch before you head back.

Sorry, not sure how far you are from us, but just wanted to say that finding a church and new community was the no 1 struggle for all the SA's in our church. So it is not just you. It is a common experience.

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Just an interesting bit of trivia, Mansfield in Brisbane is known as the "Bible Belt". Quite applicable to most of the suburbs surrounding Mansfield actually as they are so close in proximity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansfield,_Queensland

Among others, there is also a big Hillsong community.

http://myhillsong.com/services/brisbane/

http://citipointechurch.com/

http://gatewaybaptist.com.au/

I could sit and list churches in the general Mansfield area here for quite some time.

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I think it is worth going to the Busselton church and meeting FML and her hubby and family.

But, as I was reading through your post - I got the same feeling as BriD - that this probably isn't where you are meant to be and God has other plans.

Everyone is different, but maybe go to FML's church, pray, give it over to God and ask for some guidance for where you should go. Ask for somethign specific - ask for a really great job that will point you to the right place, where it is His will for you to be.

Also - don't take this the wrong way, but I might also have raised an eyebrow over the glasses - I'm just thinking about it as you coming in as a new person, and how it *could* have seemed like you were trying to give out orders or boss people around, where the australians view everyone as being equal and wouldn't have liked the percieved approach (not saying this is how you did things, just trying to see why she might have reacted that way).

It's also different when you're working alongside people you know well, and they know exactly where your request is coming from. Maybe something like "I'm sorry to bother you, but it is really hectic out there and I need to run back - could you maybe help me out by putting this tray in for me? Otherwise no worries, I'll come back in a minute and sort it out."

It explains why you're asking - it's really busy, and why you can't do it right this second yourself, and asks for help, without making it feel like they have no option. Not sure if all my rambling is making sense... :(

I also think in SA we are more likely to just keep quiet and get on with something even if we do feel a little irked, while the Aussies are much more outspoken when they feel they are being put out or asked to do something unfairly... I could be wrong, it's just what it seems like from reading on here...

Hugs - thinking of you - pray you find where you feel at peace really soon!

Edited by McCabes
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Thanks Bridgette for your support and to everyone for your input and advice. We're certainly not looking for Christian-only South Africans, not in the slightest, we just understand now how familiarity can make settling a lot easier. This immigration thing is not to be taken lightly and there is so much involved in finding your feet - we are nowhere near from giving up and we know it's a journey and as long as we continually ask for guidance and open our hearts to God's will for our lives here, we have a bright future of service to Him ahead of us!

As it is evident I am a very honest person and so I value all your honest opinions and will take something from each of you.


Thanks Follow my lead!

And thanks McCabes for your advice, I had heard that Australians can perceive South Africans as bossy and I hadn't realised this so I will be more aware of how I ask in the future :)

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Hi Sianvz,

I'd say, STOP and take a deep breath.... :hug:

From experience, I have learnt that no amount of Googling, "forum"ing (if you catch my drift), reading and research will prepare you for all the info that will bombard your mind after you have arrived here. It is a weird thing to go through.

Your mind is being flooded with information (old and new), excitement, dreams, feelings, new smells, tastes and sights, fears, dissappointments and surprises. And I'm sure people could add to that list. My confidence took a dip because I felt like a tremendous stranger here. To add to that, a person tries to "find your spot" in this new life: whether it be your spot in the workplace, your immediate vicinity (the shops and places you frequent on a weekly basis), your spot in your own future, your spot in your community (which includes your church and other groups you might join) and even in your own family and friendship circles (old and new).

Your dynamics have changed significantly and your family and friends are also trying to place you - I think it is natural (and sometimes uncomfortable).

Unlike you Medicare card and driver's license conversion, you cannot stick a time frame of two to three weeks to it to get it sorted out, but you need to take baby steps and go through the motions of working through all this info. Some take longer than otheres and it is okay - take your time. It will get better - I, for instance, have my confidence back to function as a normal civilian again! :ilikeit:

If I were in your shoes, I'd take Followmylead's invitation and go and visit their congregation. Maybe that first visit might help settle all these thought and worries and who knows, it might be exactly what you are craving for.

In the meanwhile, count your blessings bit by bit. You might not be in Canberra (which I can just imagine was an unexpected shock/surprise to deal with on top of the lists mentioned above). There is no rush, you have jobs that you can use as experience and as stepping stones to plan your next move from.

I hope this all makes sense and that you'll be able to take things one step at a time. Sometimes over analysing things just add to the rush and concern to try and "fix" them all. Slowing down and taking two steps back might just help you structure your plans, thoughts and your position to take sensible steps to reach you goals successfully and with fun!

You will be okay! I just think it is extremely overwhelming now.

Good luck and keep us updated! :hug:

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I think it is just possible you havent met the right group of people yet which whilst you are trying to find your feet is not unusual. I dont think that a particular church or group of churches will make a huge difference, churches are made up of people some are welcoming and engage in meaningful and purposeful conversation and some are narrow minded and biggoted and you would have a more meaningful conversation with an earthworm. I havent particularly found that church people are better or worse than the general population either here or in South Africa.

I think cursing and blaspheming is more socially acceptable here so you will find that portion of the population going off at every opportunity just waiting for someone to make an observation which will then provoke the desired response. It just draws your attention and so you think everyone is like that but they arent.

As for the lady at work, dont take it personally some people are just like that whatever you ask is too much trouble and they duck and dive, others would give you the shirt off their back and will go out of their way to help. She could also have been having a bad day. Just roll with the punches - it will get easier.

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