Be carefull, be very carefull !

[McCabes]

thanks for this, it's something I've slowly come to see.

it almost makes me think of a marriage versus a wedding. quite often people get so caught up in the big day, the event of the wedding itself, that they give no thought at all to the actual marriage - the relationship that comes after the event.

I guess in a way it could be the same for a lot of us - so focussed on getting the visa that we put all we have into it, and are so caught up in it that we don't think about what comes afterwards.

I'm so grateful to you and to the few others like you who have given the balancing view on what is really involved in making this move - so much more than merely physical location.

PS I keep forgetting your daughter is also Jessie. our elder daughter (she's the middle child) is Jessie It's not a name I see very often.

[Mands]

_{Hi HEOJJ,}

_{Thanks for the post - I have enjoyed reading about your adventure - you and your family have been my inspiration, I have followed your journey since the beginning of the year and have taken in a lot of what you have said. We are in the process of wrapping up here in SA, we leave in Jan next year - and reading your post now just helps us to be aware of the road that lies ahead!}

_{I think I am rambling now, but I just want to wish you and your little family nothing but the best and I will continue reading and drawing inspiration from you guys.}

[BriD]

Sending big hugs and positive vibes your way. I cannot begin to contemplate what it is like once you are there and the ups and downs one faces. Thank you for your honesty as always...it is good to remind oneself that it is a hugely tough thing to go through and one faces many emotions of all kinds.

[Killerjoe]

"On a serious note. I appreciate the struggle you're going through inside. I was lucky enough to be youngish when I arrived (late twenties) but also felt like a complete failure at having to start again at the bottom. My wife had already established her career as an accountant and was pretty much the breadwinner for years. That makes you feel pretty crappy. Finally I've managed to overtake her and although it really shouldn't matter who earns what, it DOES when you're a man."

Well I'm only here from August 2013 and I feel the smae way already, thanks for the advice Hansa and for your post HEOJJ. Im still lloking for work and my wife works one income and were doing a whole lot better the SA, but we miss SA so much, this is really not easy at all. A rough ride, the Ozzies have been great but I just miss the connection we had in SA, will we ever have those type of connections here in OZ will we really connect with the people? Will we feel accepted or belong here?

Some days its easier but other days Im really totally depressed and the Ozzie friends I have really do try and cheer me up, I wish I would forget everything I got so used to in SA and learn this new way here but it feels like im not living merely existing. I am very thanksful for everything we have here compared to SA but I also want to learn quickly how to interact with the Ozzies.

Anyways Guys thanks for the posts as it helps me reading them, Im not alone in this.

[rikamarie]

Hi there HEOJJ! Thanks for your post! I think it is very important that for everyone on here to be honest about their own experiences because it not only helps you to deal with it, but it also helps the rest of us to gain perspective on the reality of immigration. So for that I say thank you!

Also, I would just like to add that you guys can really be proud of what you've achieved in the past 6 months. Think of what you'll achieve in the next 6 months! Can't wait to read all about it!

[Guest May]

Its rough, we came out this year 44 and 56 with boys 12 and 13. But we still here and strangely enough I am not homesick.

For you older folk I started working for an organisation that does domestic assistance to over 65+. both hubby and I and it pays what entry level desk jobs. I had 3 clients yesterday and what a job. The organisation helps out with free english for refugees, yoga, knitting, marjong, jobseek. Meals on wheels, door to door transport. Considering that seniors make up 30% of the population let me assure you that they take care of all of us with grys hare. Cant say the same for SA.

[GideonVD]

Some days its easier but other days Im really totally depressed and the Ozzie friends I have really do try and cheer me up, I wish I would forget everything I got so used to in SA and learn this new way here but it feels like im not living merely existing. I am very thanksful for everything we have here compared to SA but I also want to learn quickly how to interact with the Ozzies.

Having the exact same situation after 1 month on the job. So know what you mean.

[AndreaL]

Great post HEOJ

Just remember that like others have said, 6 months is still a 'newbie'. I promise it does come in time and Jordy and other are 100% correct in saying that you settle more when you make memories here.

Hubby and I went away for 2 days and we talked about our early days, I think we were so overawed and trying to see where we fit that we weren't being natural and maybe gave off vibes of desperation......lol.....I know that sounds silly, but once I got into my head that I wasn't an outsider trying to fit in, but was just me, things became easier......maybe I started to engage with people more naturally.

We drove from Mackay to Moranbah yesterday and I looked at the land, brown and dry as it is here in Qld....and felt an overwhelming connection and love for it.....I once used to feel the same way about our trips from Namibia through the Northern Cape and down to Cape Town.....................but that is mostly gone now, those memories are as if memories of childhood and the majority of my good time memories all occurred here in Australia.

I just feel so lucky....even in the tough times, that this is my home, this is my land.....

Do your apprenticeship or whatever you want to call it and compare how you feel then to how you feel now.........and remember, you've always got your family here on the forum

[followmylead]

It was good to read your post and the warnings contained in them. So much of our life is focussed on that visa...almost like preparing for this great wedding day - and not so much for the marriage.

[Mac777]

One of the things that I love about this forum is the opportunity to share each others thoughts, fears and desires.

I think it's such an understated benefit, being able to share with everyone because we all know what the costs and benefits are to this whole process and in life in general, being able to share common thoughts and experiences is such a huge comfort to us.

So thanks HEOJJ, sharing your thoughts and fears does help, not just yourself but every forumite who gets to chuck a pie at the face of uncertainty that is so prominent in all of this chaos.

[Sunnyskies]

Basically echo everyone else. I found the first two years really tough. Now we are coming up for five years in January and I really couldn't imagine living in SA again. It helps that we have finally managed to buy a house in an area that we wanted to live (yes Sibella we finally got one!). It is very important to connect with some people who understand where you are emotionally (ie other immigrants not necessarily Safffers) so that you don't fixate on some of the issues you encounter with your workmates or Aussie friends (trying to discuss some of your issues with people who have no concept of what you are going through can be counter productive).

From a coping perspective, I do find that being physically active also helps a lot to deal with things that can be emotionally draining whether it is migration, work stress, unemployment stress or otherwise. I find that just pushing your worries out of your head for an hour while you physically exert yourself allows you to see through your issues a lot more clearly afterwards (hope that makes sense) and is good for the waistline!

On the work front, I totally get how demoralising it is to start over. However, you will find that you will move up through the ranks more quickly, as you already have the skills, you just need them to be recognised.

[chzaau]

Interesting thought, most people I speak to say South Africa is deteriorating, they compare back 5, 10, 20 years. So what do you think it will look like 20 years from today and would you consider the change in your life is worth all the drama or let's say nothing comes for free in life, so you have to give up to get. Are you prepared even if it means living worse then you live today.

In other words how far are you prepared to sacrifice for the unknown?

Edited September 27, 2013 by chzaau

[GideonVD]

In other words how much are you willing to risk staying in a country that has a proven track record of going off the rails at a horrifying pace and being controlled by a party only looking out for its upper elite?

I've decided no more, and would do it again in a heartbeat.

[Abha93]

I guess it's also a tough one if you left SA because you've had enough of Julius Malema - he turned out to be a bit of a flash in the pan, to be honest.

Are you working at the moment, HEOJJ?

[Sibella]

Abha93 I'm sure HEOJJ left not only because of Julius Malema but because of the myriad of other issues South Africans face on a daily basis, and most importantly for a better future for their child.

It is actually so funny, we are off to Bali on holiday this week (with three kids, the youngest at 22 months a terror who drinks water from puddles!) and I am really worried and nearly bought the whole chemists' worth of medication to take with as well as hand sanitizer, mosquito stuff, dettoll... and then I just thought - we're South African, we're tough, Bali should be a breeze, what am I worrying about!

Obviously I've gone a bit soft in the past two years but it was actually quite a soothing thought. And I remembered the daily terror we went through living in fear every day, and I tell my eleven year old daughter about the security guard at her preschool because there was a high jacking, and about affirmative action and all our friends who now live in the same 'security complex'... she doesn't seem to believe me because it really is quite unbelievable.

So yes maybe while you are in South Africa there might be specific things which annoy you. But once you've been away for a while (nearly 7 years for us) you look back and can't believe the way you tried to live, and realize how lucky you are now.

[McCabes]

hi - HEOJJ and Gideon/others - please start a different thread if you don't mind explaining a bit more re what you were used to this side and what it is about that side that brings you down? It sounds like it's all the (so-called) little things which can actually be pretty big things when it comes down to it because they all add up to a way of life? Am I understanding correctly?

Please don't take this the wrong way but I'm such a newb at all of this - never been out of the country, never lived/worked anywhere else, that I can't quite get a picture in my head. (read that again and please dont' think I'm doubting what you're feeling, I'm just trying to understand what and why so I can *try* to be prepared for that stage, when we get there... though I guess there's nothing you can really do.)

Can I also ask - those who feel this way, were you very social in SA with a big group of friends/family and a busy calendar? Did you go out with work mates etc?

Sorry guys I'm just trying to fit the pieces of the puzzle together. My family is so scattered and my In-laws don't help and won't unless it's an emergency. All my friends are scattered too - mostly overseas, so my friendships are already mostly long-distance.

I'm guessing this will be much harder for my hubby as we live close to his family and see them regularly as they're all still in-country, and he works with his brother (kind of), so there's ties at work as well.

Maybe we need a pinned post with "stages of immigration", like AA steps, that most people find they go through, right from application through to the first years actually there? It might help others see that while what they're going through isn't at all easy or pleasant, they're not alone, and that better things should be down the road...

[HadEnoughofJuju]

Hi McCabes, it's not anything about the country or the people that is bringing me down but more the circumstances. To give you a bit of background (which may shed some light on the matter).

I was very lazy at school and didn't really care too much for work or studying. I basically got through school on memory, not something I am proud of or advocate. I started working as an admin clerk in a church with the intention of going into full time ministry (long story, never happened), left that to become a goldsmith and left that for more money to join the IT industry.

Ask most people and they will say IT means working with PC's i.e. hardware. Ask an IT pro how many different disciplines in the industry there are and there won't be enough time in a day to tell you about them all.

Over the last 15 years I have been unemployed twice, both for more than 15 months, I have gained experience in software support, hardware, networking, Linux and Windows server administration, software development and web design and development, the list goes on. Currently I am doing web development.

Most of the web development I did was on windows platforms and whatever skills I have needed over the years I have taught myself, which creates the first issue here for me of not having any qualifications, the second issue is that I have been thrown in the deep end and am having to develop in a new language on an unfamiliar platform.

Leaving friends behind was easy because the ones worth keeping are either here or in the process of getting their visas. All the other "friends" I thought I had wrote me off when they heard we were leaving. I don't really have family that I am close to except my mum but we keep in contact regularly.

This post was never intended to scare people off or make them think twice about coming to Australia. It was worth all the blood, sweat and tears and I would do it all over again. What I was trying to get at was that in the beginning we spend so much time focusing on the process and we invest so much emotional energy that we loose sight of the fact that getting the visa is merely the beginning. There is still a long road ahead which will consume far more energy than the visa process.

I made the mistake of getting too emotionally involved in the process, constantly thinking about what would happen next and trying to plan everything to the last detail. Planning is good and deserves energy but only give it what it needs and no more. Enjoy the time you have left in South Africa and cherish the moments you have with family, it will carry you through the tough times here.

[McCabes]

Hugs HEOJJ

I can't say how much I appreciate all your posts and especially your honesty. It really helps and makes a difference - thank you!

I hear you on the IT industry. I started out studying Occupational Therapy at wits, flunked physics and lost the small bursary I had and my parents couldn't afford round 2 - though to be honest I was in complete burnout by then and really didn't want to go back!

So I switched to my hubby's industry - Flash dev & design, and did that for a while, then got into web content prep and coordination, back to Flash dev, then to team leader then to project manager, then had my first baby and went back as a contracter doing html, css and Flash, then got a dream job writing for a living and doing basic web stuff like html pages and banner design, and dabbling in .net. Then got retrenched and was blessed in getting a job with a global IT place, but that didn't go very well (maybe I have authority issues!? ) I dunno, but the management and practices there were awful - but I got to do a bit of everything there - web, print, branding, marketing, international stakeholder management, huge projects, sharepoint, was great stuff to add to a cv but really stressful. but I have sinced moved on from there and now handle pure front end stuff for a place that's laid-back (in comparison), but basically using web design, css, html etc. I will be forever sad that Flash is dead, I don't get it. Anything and everything is possible in flash though I guess html5 will get us there... eventually.

I guess what I'm trying to get to is that I think this is the case with most people in IT. It's part of the field in that everyhting is constantly morphing, and most people end up teaching themselves as for the most part (guessing training institutes won't like this) you learn better that way, because it's only what you need and what is applicable to your situation. Plus it will be to the level and extent you need, not some 5 day "intro" course that barely skims the surface and doesn't teach you the stuff in chapter 53 that you needed to have learnt in those 5 days...

I honestly wish I could have stayed a Flash dev (yeah go ahead and laugh!) for evermore, but IT is bound to change - who knows what "html5" will morph into or where the internet will go to next. Don't look at your morphing skills as a drawback, to me that's one of the best signs in a colleague - that they have experience in a bunch of areas that they can draw from and aren't scared to get into something new.

Re proof - I think I remember your visa had your wife as the main applicant(?), but to me it sounds like you could really use a RPL with the ACS so that you have the back-up and are able to say, I have x many years which are recognised as the equivalent of a bachelors degree in IT. It will also give you some extra confidence (I think), as it would definitely do so for me. Is it at all a possibility? Maybe next year once your savings are up a little more? Could help you feel like you're on less shaky ground maybe?

Is there any way to go talk to someone about all of this? Maybe talking it through with someone who will just listen and being able to say anything and everything will help? I can hear how hard this is for you and I just hope and wish the best for you and your family. you've gone through so much and come so far... just hang in there.

[ronfire]

Hi HEOJJ

It's a tough thing to go onto a forum like this and speak (ok, write!) from your heart in this manner - I salute you.

I think you've already kind of found the reason for the way you feel - that you became too emotionally invested in the process. I think if we get too fixated on the process milestones, eg. visa application, approval, arrival, PR, citizenship, etc, etc. - what do you do once the milestones are achieved? Please understand, I'm not trying to blame you or say that you did something wrong - you did nothing of the sort. I think you've ticked off all those milestones and you've arrived here - which was probably the MAJOR milestone in the process - and the adrenalin has worn off and you're thinking - "Huh? Is that all?"

I noticed in your first post, you also said (I quote) - " Getting a PR visa is not the end of the road, we have a long road ahead of us and it will only truly be finished the day we get that citizenship certificate and our Aussie passports". May I suggest that the road will not end with the Aussie passports? The road of life goes way beyond that. I understand what you meant - that this is the road to moving to Australia, but looking it in view of what you said about emotional involvement, I think we all should step back and realise that life is more than just getting paperwork done. Yes, those things are important, but they're not LIFE.

Like Jordy pointed out, you've only been here 6 months. That's hardly enough time to settle in properly. The 1000 day rule of thumb is a good one. Yes, you have to start from the bottom at work. That is unfortunate, but its the reality for many people who move countries. You've already weathered changes and storms that exist only in nightmares for many people. I cannot imagine being unemployed for 15 months at stretch just ONCE, let alone twice. Hats off to you, mate. You're way stronger than me. I think it helps to look at things in perspective - at least, you have a job to go to. You're able to save a bit of money. You're living in a place where you're not looking over your shoulder all the time or getting up in the middle of the night with a baseball bat (long story! ). You're in a place with sunshine that people would kill for. Just pull up a couple of pics of England every now and then and see what you have....

I'm not trying to be patronising and I apologise if I have come across that way. You just need to relax a bit and take it one day at a time, and focus on all the good things you enjoy. One day at a time. Give yourself a chance to enjoy being alive and well. Sometimes you just have to let the milestones come to you.

Hi McCabes, it's not anything about the country or the people that is bringing me down but more the circumstances. To give you a bit of background (which may shed some light on the matter).

I was very lazy at school and didn't really care too much for work or studying. I basically got through school on memory, not something I am proud of or advocate. I started working as an admin clerk in a church with the intention of going into full time ministry (long story, never happened), left that to become a goldsmith and left that for more money to join the IT industry.

Ask most people and they will say IT means working with PC's i.e. hardware. Ask an IT pro how many different disciplines in the industry there are and there won't be enough time in a day to tell you about them all.

Over the last 15 years I have been unemployed twice, both for more than 15 months, I have gained experience in software support, hardware, networking, Linux and Windows server administration, software development and web design and development, the list goes on. Currently I am doing web development.

Most of the web development I did was on windows platforms and whatever skills I have needed over the years I have taught myself, which creates the first issue here for me of not having any qualifications, the second issue is that I have been thrown in the deep end and am having to develop in a new language on an unfamiliar platform.

Leaving friends behind was easy because the ones worth keeping are either here or in the process of getting their visas. All the other "friends" I thought I had wrote me off when they heard we were leaving. I don't really have family that I am close to except my mum but we keep in contact regularly.

This post was never intended to scare people off or make them think twice about coming to Australia. It was worth all the blood, sweat and tears and I would do it all over again. What I was trying to get at was that in the beginning we spend so much time focusing on the process and we invest so much emotional energy that we loose sight of the fact that getting the visa is merely the beginning. There is still a long road ahead which will consume far more energy than the visa process.

I made the mistake of getting too emotionally involved in the process, constantly thinking about what would happen next and trying to plan everything to the last detail. Planning is good and deserves energy but only give it what it needs and no more. Enjoy the time you have left in South Africa and cherish the moments you have with family, it will carry you through the tough times here.

[AlBrough]

Keep going strong, you are an inspiration

[DavidJames]

Hey Ronfire,

Fantastic advice. Sometimes it is hard to remember that we need to have a long term view to make this all work. In the short to medium term it is a massive emotional roller coaster. I am 14 months in and have my good and bad days, but am feeling more settled as time goes by.

[HadEnoughofJuju]

@McCabes, the RPL would be very difficult to achieve as most of the stuff I can use I would never be able to get supporting documentation for because the company I work for refuse to even give me letters of reference.

I looked at doing it early in the process to get extra points but ran into way to many brick walls with previous employer's, they must not like me too much.

As for talking to someone, this forum has done wonders for me. It helps to be able to share without fear of judgement. That's what makes this place so awesome.

@Ronfire, thanks for the words of encouragement, it takes a lot more that that to upset me by the way. I am slowly learning to live one day at a time and enjoy the things around me. I am grateful to have a job an money coming in. I guess I just need to learn that things take time and Rome wasn't built in a day.

[McCabes]

gosh HEOJJ, my jaw literally dropped. Wow. those companies sound terrible!

Something I did to get the position I have now - you have to have reference/letters confirming employment going back 10 years - I contacted line managers/colleagues from the places where management wasn't the best/or had moved on and I didn't have any contact details (but did have colleagues thanks to LinkedIn) and even the company who claimed they never give references did at least provide a letter from HR confirming my dates of employment - I actually think it's law that they have to do at least that? So maybe contact the HR dep for each place and try that, then rather get an old colleague/manager to give you a "reference"? It might not be the norm but I think it would serve the purpose?

On the other hand, I must be irritating you by now. I've just followed your story and can't help but wish things were easier for you.

Hang in there. You'll be right

[HadEnoughofJuju]

The company I am talking about literally told me when I left that I would never get so much as a letter stating I had worked there, even if I took them to court. They were very angry at me for leaving and if it wasn't for the fact that I already had a job to go to I would really have struggled to find work. For whatever reason (I guess they were angry that they had invested so much time and effort, in their opinion) they were hell bent on making my life miserable. That and the fact I went to an ex-competitor that had since changed business owners and model did not make it any easier.

You're not irritating, we often need a new perspective on things to get us out of the rutt we are in.

[ronfire]

The company I am talking about literally told me when I left that I would never get so much as a letter stating I had worked there, even if I took them to court. They were very angry at me for leaving and if it wasn't for the fact that I already had a job to go to I would really have struggled to find work. For whatever reason (I guess they were angry that they had invested so much time and effort, in their opinion) they were hell bent on making my life miserable. That and the fact I went to an ex-competitor that had since changed business owners and model did not make it any easier.

You're not irritating, we often need a new perspective on things to get us out of the rutt we are in.

Yikes, what a pretty mob to work for.

I know - save up your $$$, wait for the ZAR to nosedive, then take them over and close them down!

McCabes' suggestion about going the HR route is a good one. My bro had to get references from one of the places he worked (also in IT in Jhb) where he was permanently on a project site. This was some time after he'd moved on from there. He didn't get along all that well with his ex-boss on the project site, so he simply went to the HO, spoke to HR and organised a letter of employment describing what he was employed to do and the project he worked for, etc.

If you're on Linkedin, can you find people you worked with in those companies to write you references or commendations? It'll (a) confirm you worked there and, ( confirm what you did.

Just a thought.

@McCabes, the RPL would be very difficult to achieve as most of the stuff I can use I would never be able to get supporting documentation for because the company I work for refuse to even give me letters of reference.

I looked at doing it early in the process to get extra points but ran into way to many brick walls with previous employer's, they must not like me too much.

As for talking to someone, this forum has done wonders for me. It helps to be able to share without fear of judgement. That's what makes this place so awesome.

@Ronfire, thanks for the words of encouragement, it takes a lot more that that to upset me by the way. I am slowly learning to live one day at a time and enjoy the things around me. I am grateful to have a job an money coming in. I guess I just need to learn that things take time and Rome wasn't built in a day.

No problem, man. I still think we can all learn from you, really.

YOu should do something different. Go on a road trip, or a biking/hiking trip, or something yuo haven't done before. Not that it changes anything, just makes the ride a bit more interesting! Take up archery, for instance. You can imagine the faces of those bums in the target as you shoot!!!

Edited October 8, 2013 by ronfire