If not now then when?

[Oosie]

Hi Eyebrow

Enjoyed your posts so much. All the best, we will be thinking and praying for you. This is a wonderful country and even if you can get in here with a 457 and work on the PR while you are here it will be worth it. We came on a 457 4 and 1/2 years ago, my husband was 52 and after 5 months the company closed down and we had to look for another job within 28 days or go back to SA. I don't want to bother you with all the detail the past few years (all the ups and downs) but last year we became Aus citizens and cannot be happier.

Linda

[herby]

Chance signs ...

On our way out of Jhb in Dec 2011, while on the way to KZN for our last Christmas with family in South Africa, I passed a sign saying Durban ...km , Heidelberg ... km

It's a common sign which anyone who has travelled on that road will have seen.

But, on this day it meant so much more - 10 days later, we would be on a flight to Melbourne - to move to Heidelberg...

We have been here for a year now and we had the pleasure of hosting Eyebrow while she was here in November - unfortunately only for the one evening - we're still praying for you Ils and hope to become neighbours sometime soon.

Edited February 3, 2013 by herby

[Sunnyskies]

Hi Eyebrow, after reading about the old lady from the concentration camp on your post, I went onto my BBC news app, and found the following story:

** Henia Bryer: Prisoner number A26188 **

Born into a middle class Jewish family, Henia Bryer lost her father, brother and sister during the German occupation, survived four concentration camps and the Death March - and went on to bear witness to the creation of Israel in 1948.

< http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21200051 >

Anyway, I was wondering if this is not the lady from your post? She now lives in South Africa.

I gather that you also saw the thread that came through last night with one of the other forumites who had an immense struggle to get PR with medical costs of what looked like 150,000 dollars. Unfortunately the link in her thread that laid out her story was no longer working, but someone asked her to contact you. So hopefully she has to give you a bit of hope that even if the road proves to be tough it is not insurmountable. You can be guaranteed that if and when you get to Melbourne there are plenty of forumites who are cheering for you and are willing to help with the emotional support that you will need as you go through the process.

It seems like you are getting closer in your decision making.

[Bloubok]

Eyebrow, I just read your story....and it touches me deeply. Live for today. Go! It is a golden opportunity either way.....

[Riekie]

Listen to that old lady - she knows what she's talking about! I've read many many books written by holocaust survivors and the one thing they all said was that even when it was staring them straight in the eyes, people still did not think that anything would happen! Some of them being marched to the trains in their hundreds STILL thought that they were simply being relocated. Most of those people never made it. Anne Frank's Dad was offered the chance to go to the UK but he decided to stay as he thought the world would never allow those things to happen. He was the only one of his family to survive. Imagine the guilt he had to live with!

South Africa may never come to that, but why risk it if you have the opportunity to get out? You are making this decision not only for yourself but for your family. I hope everything works out for you - it's really a long, hard road but the reward is great! Best of luck!

[Eyebrow]

Today, I am once again working on the paperwork of my application. (Which is of course why I feel inspired to write somehting on saaustralia, because anything to get away from the flipping application. )

It feels like doing a PhD. Seriously. Trying to describe in detail every job I have ever done, every responsibility I have ever had, and trying to make everything sound as if it was a major achievement.

I am fed up. And this is the easy part!

My application to get my qualifications recognized now weighs 957g in hard copy. I know this, because I keep weighing it to see how much the courier is going to cost…

My life in less than a kilogram…

I have doubts. Many. But I am clearly not alone, as I read the other forum posts.

I look at my house. I LOVE my house. Because it is mine. We bought it for 1.5mil. It has 6 bedrooms. In the Northern Suburbs. It is huge. But old. Bits are falling off it. Like the cornish board, whatever that is…

I always imagined living here forever, and then dying here surrounded by grandkids. (Although, in South Africa, the “dying here “part can always come sooner than expected).

Ever since I started thinking about going, I cry when I look at anything in the house. Look the mirror we put in . Oh here is the scratch against the wall one of the kids made when he fell with his bike . Oh remember the time when we put in this gate . It is ridiculous. I want my house. I want my roots. I want… Well, apparently, I want what I can’t get… I want the country of my birth to be a country that supports my kids and us, for our lifetime. But that is not to be.

Sadness then anger, and vice versa.

I love South Africa.

I don’t want to leave.

But I worry about the kids.

I work in the CBD of Cape Town. It is lovely. If you intend to work anywhere in SA, CT is the best. I made a little niche for myself. I sit in my office, surrounded by my staff and my stuff. And I am far removed from the rest of South Africa. But CT is, unfortunately, at the end of the day, part of South Africa. And what happens in Messina in the North, affects CT in the South.

I look out over the mountain, and refuse to believe any ill will befall me here.

Why is this so infinitely more difficult than I had thought it would be? Why are the head and the heart NOT on the same page?

[HadEnoughofJuju]

Hey Eyebrow

Although we don't have the same circumstances, I feel your pain. I am angry that we have to pack up and leave this place because we are forced. I have always been the one who has wanted to leave and my wife who was rooted now it seems we have changed rolls. I thought this would be the easy part it turns out that the paperwork was the easy part. Packing up our lives and moving is tough. I find myself being very emotional and crying at the strangest things.

Stick it out and give that paperwork hell girl, when you get that visa the feeling that comes with it is awesome. I know it's only 457 and you would rather have PR but it's a start and you literally have the whole forum cheering you and standing behind you. We will keep you and your family in our thoughts and prayers.

P.S. Keep the end goal in mind and remember why and for whom you are doing this, it tend to make things easier.

[OubaasDik]

Have you thought of moving to Boksburg for a few weeks to fill out the forms?

That'll certainly remove the incentive to stay .....

[AlBrough]

Keep your head up. You have come so far, so keep going

[DanieR]

Hi Eyebrow

I share your pain and frustration. We are also in the Northern Suburbs after spending 6 years in Australia. Fortunately we now have dual citizenship and are just here to sell our business. This is such a beautiful country and it is wonderful to be close to the family after so many years. I enjoy the great food and wine (and kudu biltong!) But we can not wait to return to Oz!

Why? SA has become a leaders-less and irresponsible society. Our future is threatened and destroyed by politicians who only seem to care about themselves. The worst is that they are not held accountable for their actions, and it seems that the people of South Africa are just onlookers to this social and economic disaster. Due to these unfortunate circumstances I made a decision to do what I can for the future of my family, and we moved to Australia. It has not always been easy, but absolutely worth the adventure! In Australia I experienced the feeling of a caring and responsible government, and being positive about the future. Surely that is how it is suppose to be?

Moving out of a comfort zone is never easy but I have yet to find someone who complained afterwards!

Good luck!

[Eyebrow]

Life is funny!

When I started this process Jan last year, I was at rock bottom in my life.

About to lose my job with no prospects. No help for my kid - on a waiting list to get him assessed for a school, with another 18 months left.

So immigrating could only be a good thing.

Then things started to look up... I started to work for myself, And now I have a partner who has all sorts of expansion plans.

I complained until they moved up the assessment, and my son is now in a school that can help him.

I have been getting support for my kids out of the weirdest or rather most unexpected places.

I get angry at the thought of having to leave! I think about all I will miss.

So i settle in my comfort zone.

And I tell my OH, I think we should stay. Things are not that bad. We have it fairly good. Not great, I accept that, but definately ok at least...

And he looks at me over the news paper, his face mildly quizzical and asks: "And what about the kids?"

And then I am stuck. Because what will happen to them in 10years' time? South Africa is nothing but unpredictability personified...

I have just had my application to get my degree recognised rejected.

"You application has been deemed incomplete."

Reason?

There is an unexplained gap in my CV from December 1996 - January 1997.

I said my job ended Dec 06 and new one started Jan 97, but did not put 31 Dec and 1 Jan ie gap!

I can, of course, resubmit my CV, but need to pay the fee again! Noooo!

Oh well, onward and forward (or whatever that saying is).

Let us not forget: IT IS FOR THE KIDS

[Alida]

Noooo, Eyebrow, take up arms, girl !!

That 'gap' is senseless ! Send it back to them with the honest and real reason - that is holiday time in South Africa, mate, NOTHING happens then !!

Don't give up so fast, it could cost you your future ! Or your childrens' ...

[Eyebrow]

Noooo, Eyebrow, take up arms, girl !!

That 'gap' is senseless ! Send it back to them with the honest and real reason - that is holiday time in South Africa, mate, NOTHING happens then !!

Don't give up so fast, it could cost you your future ! Or your childrens' ...

Dont worry, I am sending it back to them!

The point is... I have to pay again. That is what is upsetting me.

[AndreaL]

Oh, that is such a pain, I feel for you and quite understand why you would be annoyed at having to pay again for such a small error.

I'm sending virtual hugs, because I can't find the emoticons on my iPad..

[OnYellowBrickRd]

Hi Eyebrow

Still in your court!! Keep on keeping on .

The day you get your visa (or better CITIZENSHIP ) I'll be throwing a party to celebrate

[MrsJ]

I know exactly how you feel, your post made me cry! It would be easier if Cape Town wasn't so much part of my soul - if my family hadn't lived here for generations, it is so hard! It's funny how life works, as soon as we made the decision to leave, my husband got a great promotion. I keep on reading how you don't go to Oz for the work and you must be willing to do any job to survive there. But my husband loves his job, loves going to work every day. He doesn't have many official qualifications but has slowly worked his way up and is respected. How can I ask him to give that up for some menial job he will hate, maybe never even be able to buy a house in Oz because we are starting from scratch? After many years, finally my freelance work is going well, I probably won’t be able to carry on doing that in OZ as it is all word of mouth and contacts that have taken me years to build.

But through all of this I still think our only option is to leave.

Anyway sorry for the rant, just wanted you to know you are not alone!

[Alida]

Well Eyebrow and MrsJ, I think of it this way: Everything going well here, makes it easier to focus attention on the immigration process. You don't have to stress about here and now at least for a while, freeing you to look wider.

Promotion gives more financial room for the process of going over. Promotion means, that if you / hubby needs to fall back a level down under in his job, at least it is still a level higher than what it was if he was never promoted in SA. My DH is in a similar kind of situation. He gets 'drawn up' the ranks because of his good work ethics, yet without the promise of salary increase. We work on keeping the focus on the future, knowing that the day he asks a letter of recognition from his boss, it will benefit him in OZ, even though it is not helping him financial wise here and now. If he gets offered a job a level down from where he is now, it might just be the same job description he's been doing for a few years anyways till recently, so the climb back to where he is now, is not that steep.

I'm just talking from what I've heard and seen, but private businesses gets into the market for sale sometimes. My own brother is already in Bargara area. He recently bought a private business and the previous owner (the guy is retiring) really has such a big heart, he took him to all his clients, introduced my brother to them, showed my brother the ropes of the business and offered him unlimited advice whenever he needs some. So see, we've learned that first principle is: do not think in SA terms about OZ.

A business going well currently in SA is blessing beyond belief and the result of years of intense work. But little will last, if this SA cookie will start to crumble under the weight of stupidity.

Just my 2c

Edited March 5, 2013 by Alida

[Eyebrow]

Hi Forumites

Me again.

Been thinking a lot these days. I mean, the moment you start to think about emigrating, your mind starts racing through this whole "pros and cons" issue. Or mine at least!

I find it quite emotionally draining. One day something bad happens, and I am all like "right, we are getting out on the first plane", and then someone is nice and kind and then I am like "ahh, how can I leave a country with nice people like this!!?"

So I am feeling kinda bipolar...

(Although I have to admit, watching the Big Debate every sunday night on SABC 2 at 10pm, has me leaning towards the "run while you still can" side. Just to see the anger and dissatisfaction, and knowing the government aint gonna do anything to change that! As my OH says, once a party is in power it spends most of its resources - whether time or money - into staying in power, and not into doing the actual work it was elected for in the first place... )

If you've read my journal so far, you will know that I didnt have prospects when I started the process ie at rock bottom. Then things changed. Now I am working for myself, with a very dynamic partner, been offered a job at the university, because the BEE person not working out. But I am reluctant to be bitten twice. So all things hunky dory.

The process is running slowly in the background. Waiting to hear about the recognition of my degree in Oz.

2things are issues for me right now.

1) I am struggling big time with fear. (Just been thinking about it since HEOJJ made a post recently.)

I am afraid of... crime - someone breaking in, violence - someone hurting one of my family, future - job security, money for retirement, will money be worth anything in future, will kids be able to live and work in South Africa? Stability of South Africa - will it turn into the rest of Africa? (Difficult to imagine when lving in lovely Cape Town). But I am not unique in this. Everyone with half a brain is worrying about this!

But I am worrying about finding place to live in Oz that we can afford, finding a school for kids, how will kids adapt, will we get the appropriate medical professionals to look after the kids, WILL I even be able to do the job i do now there in a first world environment? What if I get there, and I suck at it? Will we make friends? Will we survive alone there? What if somethign happens to me while there on temp visa? etc. So am not sleeping because of this.

Now, none of these things have happened, yet they feel real.

Where do I obey the fear, and where is the fear irrational? I cant draw the line yet.

Are they other people struggling with this?

2) This limbo thing. We need a new (second hand) car. The old one is quite dodgy. But all money is in saving for possible trip. Holes in our living room furniture (someone thought it was a good idea to see if he could cut patterns out of seats with a scissors!), so we need new furniture, but we are not buying anythign big! I am shooting myself in the foot at work, partner wants to expand, but I stall "maybe next year", because he doesnt know. Or I am struggling a bit because I am not advertising, but I dont want to spend money on that. It wil pay off long term sure, but dont want to spend money NOW. OH says live as if you are not going, but plan as if you are!

Still that doesnt help me...

How are you approaching this?

Right let me get back to work. Yip. 23:15. Kids asleep. Paper work mountain to be tackled.

[HadEnoughofJuju]

Eyebrow, I am sorry I made those feelings of insecurity and fear surface. My intention was not to make people fear the fear (if you know what I mean) it was to make people think about the bigger picture.

Look at what you have already achieved in your life. You were at a point where you had no idea what tomorrow would bring and you picked yourself up, dusted yourself off and built a life for you and your family. Everything we go through (as much I hate admitting it) especially the not so nice things, all happen to us for a reason. We can choose to use the experience and grow from it or we can wallow in the self pity and destruction it brings.

Whether you should stay or go is not something anyone else can decide for you as much as we all want to see you and your family get on a plane a go. Someone said it here on the forum and my wife loves this analogy, South Africa is like the Titanic, most people who can see where she is going are heading for the safety of the life boats but those that choose to keep their heads in the sand are like the people sitting in the grand dining room drinking whiskey and bragging that she will never sink.

No-one knows what will happen to this country and for the sake of those that we are leaving behind I genuinely hope that things do improve. Me on the other hand, I am not prepared to sit around and watch my child's future go nowhere slowly because I want to enjoy my whiskey.

I hope that you find peace as well as find the answers you are looking for.

[HadEnoughofJuju]

Oh by the way. Thanks :cry:

[Maktub]

So I came back to SA after trip to Oz in Nov 2012.

And told my OH what I saw and what happened. He was very excited. The photos were nice. The possibilities were great. But we were not sure about taking the chance on a 457. Still not sure actually. And it is Jan 2013 now.

I have started the process of getting my skills recognised. This ia taking ages (is that normal? ) Need forms and certificates and all in the same language and stamped by the same person.

At least with 457 I dont need to rewrite IELTS for better points!

But bad news is I may have to do some sort of exam. Which, wait for it, can only be done in OZ. So I will have to go again to do that at some stage... Could have told me before I went in the first place! (Yes, I did check the website, but it was apparently out of date, as they have changed the rules recently...And now the actual visa depends on passing the exam)

My son is in a special needs school here in CT now.

My eldest is in Gr4 and moaning about homework.

My little girl is 2y old and going to creche.

I am beyond hectic at work.

Life is going on.

In fact I am so busy, I dont have time to think about leaving SA much.

Except that time when your head goes crazy, you know, when you get into bed and turn the light off and try and switch your mind off too? And then it doesnt work and you keep thinking pro's and con's. And if you had a good day? "Oh maybe SA is not so bad after all..." And if they broke in at your mother in law's a few km's from you, AGAIN, the "Oh dear best get out before a burglary turns into something worse" thoughts come.

In reality I know that SA is going down the drain, but so slowly, at times one doesnt notice it...

And then there are a few large jumps again. Lonmin or new BEE or admssion policies at universities... And then you know...

I stare out at the mountain at times. In awe of the beauty of this country, but so angry at the people in power. This eternal dichotomy.

Someone on this forum said in essence not to be short sighted but "think about where you want to die, and not where you want to live. And then go there."

That makes sence. Here your life is in limbo. It depends on the whim of some politician taking advice from Zimabwe...

Shortly after coming back to SA I had the weirdest experience. No, really!

I was sitting in my office, when this elderly, but spritely lady came to see me. Quite frail. And heavy accent of some sort. Turns out it was Polish, but her English was brilliant. She was visiting from the UK. She was Jewish. Very inteligent and well travelled and wise.

Anyway during the course of discussing anything from education to economic policies. She abruptly stopped and deadly serious, looked me straight in the eye and said...

"What is your escape plan?"

I for a split second thought she was talking about escape in event of a fire.

But then it dawned that she was talking about escaping the country!

I said I didnt have one. (Not told anyone at work about my plans, so dont want rumours)

And she looked surprised.

"But surely you are educated", she said sarcastically,"you see the signs".

She then proceded to pull up her sleeve, and there was a number tatooed on her arm.

"Do you know what I am?" She said. (Not who, WHAT.)

By now I had an inkling, but was fairly shocked.

"I am a holocaust survivor. Listen to me, we have a saying: If the ship lists, get off. And this ship is not just listing, it is sinking! And I should know. Get out. Now. And I will tell you where to go as well... Not the rest of Africa - that goes without saying. Not USA too much political problems. Not Europe/UK their socialistic attitude is ruining them. The Pacific rim is the place. Specifically Australia. And in Australia? Melbourne of course. Best place for your specific skillset. So go there."

She got up, hugged me and kissed me on both cheeks. "Promise me you will go? For you kids?"

And then she left.

I felt like there was some sort of hidden camera somewhere! How did she know?

Weird? Do you agree?

To be continued...

WOW!!!!

[Maktub]

PS Eyebow,

I seem to have missed your story, and only just read it now.

Please please hang in there!!! I know exactly what that rollercoaster of emotions feels like!

It may seem like it costs everything to live your dream...but it costs a lot more not to live it! Remember you have some fabulous memories to make and experiences to have...

We must be willing to let go of the life we had planned, so as to accept the life that is waiting for us ~ J Campbell.

[Miley]

Hi Eyebrow, I know that feeling well. For a few months I would get into bed at night and it was as if someone had strapped me into a roller coaster, my adrenaline would pump, my thoughts would turn into sharp knives, stabbing my heart with intense fear. I would get up and pace the house. It was so difficult trying to imagine life in Australia. So hard trying to figure out is this the right thing we are doing. Now 13 months later, I sleep well at night, the fear has been replaced with excitement, I have a sense of peace and a feeling of destiny in my heart. I think a certain amount of wrestling with your fears is good (for a time), but then I think it's important to stop over analyzing, stop trying to have all the answers, stop trying to know the future and to just take one day at a time. It took me a few weeks to realize that I was a chronic over analyzer, so I decided to kick the habit. I now choose peace, and when I find my mind getting into that chronic worrying state, I find praying helps, or saying something to myself that's positive, or reminding myself of a happy memory. Hope this helps and just know you are not alone.

[OnYellowBrickRd]

Hi Eyebrow

I can definitely relate to your feeling of fear. I am a control freak by nature and this process has totally pulled the carpet out from under me! Suddenly I was not in control any longer...and it freaked me out.

Don't know if you are spiritual or not, but I would like to share this with you anyway. We were in the depths of terrible fear when we attended church one day and the entire sermon was tailored to what we needed to hear. I will share some of the notes with you.

You do not have to agree with any of these statements, but I thought I'd share them anyway (not trying to force my opinions on anyone!!)

• The main thing that causes fear is the fear of losing control because we fear not being able to handle things. People are control freaks because they are afraid. We sometimes even try to control our kids instead of trying to have a relationship with them. When we are out of control we work harder to try to get control again. When we believing in having control, we believe in cause and effect. All this time we do not realise that God is with us all the time. Instead of bargaining with God, we should trust Him.
• He wants us to be free so that we can trust the One who is actually in control.
• The easiest way to fight fear is to fight daily fears with the fear of the Lord. He created us to be fearless people. When you fear God, all other fears are overwhelmed by that fear.
• Fear is about me and love is about others. Christ wants us to give our fears to Him. He will handle them. Our job is to LOVE.

This sermon came at JUST the right time. We have now given our fears over to Him and are holding on to His promise:

Jeremiah 29:11

'For I know the plans I have for you' declares the LORD, 'plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you hope and a future'

And guess what? We realise that, no matter what, we will be ok, because we know the One who is really in control.

[Bams]

I read this post and all the comments and I am SO happy for you and the signs you are getting, but at the same time so jealous (especially today), wish I could get such a clear sign!!!

Wishing you all the best for the journey and will keep you in my prayers.