Nuwe skool in SA - engels of afrikaans?

[Vennie]

Ek wil graag by julle weet. Ons trek vanaf afrikaanse platteland na die stad, maar immigreer eers oor drie jaar.

Plaas ek vir sus (tans Graad1 in Afrikaanse plattelandse skool) volgende jaar (Graad 2) in 'n Engelse skool in die stad of 'n Afrikaanse skool? Ek en hubby het gedink engels om vir die Aus aanpassing voorsiening te maak, maar ons kry sterk teenkanting van vriende en familie en onderwysers.

Maar hulle weet nie van die immigrasie planne nie.

Ek verstaan kinders in stad word eintlik tweetalig groot, maar sy gaan in elk geval ontwrig word in onderrig taal, so hoekom nie nou al nie?

Ek wil graag 'n ingeligte besluit neem en soek raad asb.

My werk verplaas my. Die kantore is in die Waterkloof omgewing.

**

Dankie vir almal se opinies sover.

Dit word ter harte geneem

Navorsing tot dusver:

http://www.yourparenting.co.za/child/learn/big-school/huistaal-skooltaal-watter-taal

Ek stem saam dat onderrig in moedertaal beter is. Dit maak net sin, maar ek dink

mens moet dit in perspektief sien. Hiermee bedoel ek itv emigrasie. En dit was aanvanklik

die kriteria wat bepalend vir my besluit sou wees.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Vennie

[JJV]

Hallo Vennie

The importance to receive mother-tongue education in a child's early school years is well documented.

Three years is a long time before you emigrate. During this time your child could benefit significantly from the above and, rest assured, become bilingual.

In my humble opinion, Pretoria's eastern suburbs have still got some of the best "former Model C" schools in the country and you will be pleasantly surprised with the emphasis on and effort that these schools put in to get your child to be fully bilingual. Just ask any parent whose child(ren) that went through it.

Conventional wisdom would tell you there is ample time to subsequently make a switch to and English medium secondary school if you so desire.

Regards

[Gl!tter~Sm!tter]

I'm English, my husband's afrikaans. I couldn't speak a word of afrikaans when I met him. We speak afrikaans at home so I insisted that our children (14 & 7) at least go to English schools and boy am I glad I did. They are both fully bilingual, do exceptionally well at school in English yet they speak Afrikaans at home. When they have to speak to my side of the family they do so in English fluently, and to their dad's family fluently in Afrikaans. Also, I think most tertiary education is tutored in English and I didn't want them struggling when it came to that, or presenting themselves in a professional world without being able to speak English.

So so glad I put my foot down there. When we do make the move over, being as hard as it will be for them, at least the English in school part will be easier on them.

I vote you go for English!

[OubaasDik]

See what the better school is and put them in there.

My kids were raised / schooled Afrikaans and they fitted right in in Aus ... Within 6 months they both spoke pretty good English.

Another thing - the fact of having a second language seems to make it easier to pick up a third and Aus insists on a LOTE (Language Other Than English) for schoolkids. Ideally it should be Asian, but some schools have French or even Sign language.

I wouldn't give the MEDIUM of instruction too much thought, it's the STANDARD of the instruction.

En nou't ek alles in Engels getik. Jammer Vennie, maar ek is te lui om alles te vertaal.

[Jacques Voogt]

Wel, ons het in Afrikaanse huis groot geword, en maar die Ingels af die TV en radio opgetel.

Was in Afrikaanse Kleuterskool, Laerskool en Model C Hoërskool. By laasgenoemde 2 skole was Ingels as 2de taal aangebied maar ons het geen Ingelse maatjies gehad nie. So die Engelse blootstelling sal daar baie wees. Ten spyte van dit alles kry ek 'n 8 in my IELTS op die eerste probeerslag.

Ek is seker my Ingels op Laeskool was maar nie so goed nie, maar ek kan ook nie 'n tydperk onthou wat dit skielik verbeter het nie.

Eerste 2 jaar by Technikon was afrikaans. Finale jaar was Ingels. Die Ingelse terme was eintlik makliker om te gebruik.

Soos ons ouer geword het, en dinge geleidelik verander het, het ons beslis meer Ingels begin praat.

Die werksomgewing is Ingels en ek vind myself dikwels Ingels praat met vreemde mense as ons uit gaan en kom eers later agter hulle is ook Afrikaans.

In my opinie: Dit sal moeiliker wees vir jou kinders om afrikaans aan te leer in 'n streng Engelse omgewing soos Australie, tensy jy vir klasse betaal en bywoon. So leer dit nou al vir hulle aan. Dis immers ook iets wat jou as 'n familie sal bind. Dit beteken nie, jy moet geen Engelse opleiding toelaat nie. In teendeel. Laat hulle Engels leer, maar laat hulle ook Afrikaans leer terwyl jy nog in 'n Afrikaanse omgewing is.

[Gl!tter~Sm!tter]

Ten spyte van dit alles kry ek 'n 8 in my IELTS op die eerste probeerslag.

Sjoe Jacques, jy gee my hoop vir my man (pure boer) se IELTS!

Laat hulle Engels leer, maar laat hulle ook Afrikaans leer terwyl jy nog in 'n Afrikaanse omgewing is.

Ek stem saam hier. Soos ons kinders wat Afrikaans by die huis praat, Engels by die skool. Jy sal nie spyt wees nie. My twee is vlot tweetaalig en het nie gesukkel om aan te pas nie. My seun in die hoërskool kry onderskeidings en sê baie dinge is vir hom makliker in Engels. My dogter is ook soos joune, graad 1. Sy was in n Afrikaanse kleuterskool en graad 0 omdat daar nie Engels was waar ons gebly het nie. Syt nou eers begin in n Engelse skool. Sy't bietjie gesukkel in die begin soos met tel. "One and twenty, two and twenty" want afrikaans is mos een-en-twintig ens! Maar die onderwyser (model C) is puik en het baie gehelp. Sys nou fine en doen baie goed. Lees mooi, skryf reg, het die tel deel ook bemeerster. Jy as ma sal weet wat sal vir jou kind die beste wees, nie vriende of familie nie.

Sterkte

Edited October 31, 2012 by Gl!tter~Sm!tter

[bbop]

I'd say go English from the start. Your child will only use his/her Afrikaans mostly at home once on the other side. They are like sponges when so young. The Afrikaans accent also won't be so prominent. My kids were raised English as I am English, but OH is Afrikaans. My oldest can read, write and understand Afrikaans because OH family speaks Afrikaans to her and took the time and effort to teach her a bit of reading. My youngest has no interest whats so ever in the language. She was 5 when we left for the Middle-East. Now that we are no longer in SA, they have absolutely no need to understand the language, always good, but no need. They now have French as a second language.

[Bronwyn&Co]

I think I agree with Jacques. This 3 years could make a big difference as to whether they retain their Afrikaans. It could really cement the language for them, while still learning as much English as possible on the side.

If you send them to an Afrikaans primary school, it will make it a bit harder for them in Australia, but they will still be small, and get lots of help in the classroom.

The Afrikaans kids that move here sound like Aussies within 6 months, it's amazing.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Bronwyn&Co

[Erik]

I would go with English. It is scientifically proven that after a certain age the brain becomes ridged in terms of learning new languages. The earlier you learn a language the better you will be in it at a later stage of your life. This does not mean that you can't pick up a second or third language later in life, but it will be tougher.

If you wish to ground your child in the Afrikaans culture, I would say Afrikaans school. Be assured that there is a very big difference between the Afrikaans and English cultures, not to mention all the african cultures she will be exposed to in an English school. It is not a bad thing to have the cultural diversity, just something to think about, since they won't have any exposure to the Afrikaans culture in Australia except for your family and maybe SA friends you might make.

i would still go with the English school though.

Good luck

[Gl!tter~Sm!tter]

I concur with Erik and Bbop. They indeed absorb it like sponges the younger they are.

Also, in grade 1 they learn the mere basics of grammar, vowels, pronunciation

3 or 4 letter words, silent sounds, basic reading, counting and shapes. Easy to learn but actually essential.

Say she only does the transition in grade 3 or 4, she would have learned those in Afrikaans rather than English and would be lost.

So much better to get the basics right from the beginning. She will struggle much more later in grade 3 or 4 than now in grade 1

[pietkoos]

_{Hallo Vennie}

_{We are still in Aus and also leaving in the next year or so. We did the same excercise quite a few years ago by moving to the UK. Ek het Afrikaans eintlik net uit selfverdediging gepraat! Kds was vroee skooljare. Hulle het binne jaar aangepas en selfs die aksent gekry. Die proverbial spunges! Ons is nou weer terug en kds is nou tieners. Hulle is nou in Afrikaanse skool , maar in die Engelse klas (dual medium). KDS pas baie maklik aan.}

_{Sielkundige wat ons voor daardie skuif geraadpleeg het, het gese hulle sal aanvanklik tale meng, maar vanaf so 6 duidelik kan onderskei watter taal hulle op daaardie oomblik mee besig is, en dit was so!}

_{Ons het nog twee: Een Graad 1 en een voorskool. Beide is in Engelse klasse van 'n baie goeie Afrikaanse dual medium skool. Hulle behou dus hulle SA kultuur tot 'n groot mate, maar leer die taal aan om hulself te kan help wanneer ons sou skuif. Dit is die voordeel wat ons nog het om ons kinders op so manier die beste van twee werelde te bied!}

_voorspoed!

[OnYellowBrickRd]

Ek hou skool in Centurion. Ek gee Engels in 'n Afrikaansmedium skool. Ek het ook al by 'n Engelsmedium skool skoolgehou. In my opinie is die standaard Engels wat by Afrikaanse skole (veral in die ooste van Pretoria) baie hoog. Die standaard by die Engelse skole is nie so hoog nie omdat soveel verskillende agtergronde in ag geneem moet word. In 'n Afrikaansmediumskool is Engels 'n tweede taal. Alhoewel Engels as eerste taal aangebied word in die Engelse skole is dit die meerderheid se 4de, 5de of selfs 8ste taal!

Ons dogtertjie gaan volgende jaar skooltoe en ons het besluit om haar in 'n Afrikaansmedium laerskool (Monumentpark) te sit totdat ons volgende jaar trek. In my opinie as onderwyseres leer kinders vinniger die taal aan as hulle dit moet praat. Maak dus seker dat jou kind Engelssprekende maatjies het en gereeld met hulle speel. Ek weet ook dat die dissipline in die Engelse skole baie lakser is as in die Afrikaanse skole en bloot daarvoor sal ek my dogtertjie na 'n Afrikaanse skool stuur.

As ouers moet julle 'n aktiewe rol speel in die aanmoediging van taalvaardighede. Neem gereeld Engelse boeke by 'n biblioteek uit en, as jy bekommerd is oor die kind se leesvaardigheid, belê in 'n leesprogram soos "reading eggs" wat 'n internetprogram is wat in Australië gebruik word.

Volgens hierdie forum is die Australiese skole baie tegemoedkomend teenoor immigrante. Ek is seker julle kind sal vinniger aanpas as wat julle dink en julle kan gerus wees dat Australië sal help waar moontlik.

As ma en onnie beveel ek dus 'n Afrikaansmediumskool aan.

[Erik]

Ek stem breedvoerig saam met OnYellowBrickRoad. Miskien is 'n alternatiewe plan om haar in 'n Afrikaanse skool te sit, en dan in 'n Engelse naskool, sodat sy gevorseer word om Engels te praat op 'n daaglikse basis. Ek weet egter nie hoe prakties dit vir julle sou wees nie.

[Jacques Voogt]

^^^^^^^ Wat juffrou OpGeelBaksteenPad gesê het.

Ek is eintlik so bly dat juffrou Oz toe gaan. (Tong in die kies glimlaggesiggie) Dit beteken my kinders sal moontlik eendag goeie onderrig ontvang van iemand wat omgee.

[Gl!tter~Sm!tter]

Probeer Yellow nou sê Engelse skole is swart? "4de 5de of self 8ste taal"? Dis heeltemal NIE die geval nie. Inteendeel.

"die dissipline in die Engelse skole baie lakser is as in die Afrikaanse skole"? Sjoe, dis nie net verkeerd nie dis beledigend.

Vennie, jys nou meer confused as voorheen! My kinders kry die beste kwaliteit onderwys, twak word nie geduld nie. Daar is hengse waglyse van ouers wat enigiets sal doen om hulle kinders in daai skole met hoe reputasies te kry so sarkasme, rassisme en kultuur oordeling is jou "ticket out".

Either way, ek bly by dit: Besluit JY wat jy dink die beste en MAKLIKSTE sal wees vir jou kind. As julle eers daai kant kom, is daar baie meer as n nuwe skool om by aan te pas.

[OnYellowBrickRd]

@Gl!tter. I'm only speaking from experience as I live (and actually teach) in the area that Vennie is planning to move to. I am refering to public schools in general, but if you are lucky enough to find an English school with good discipline, good for you! There are great English schools around here too, but these are generally private or semi-private (like PTA Boys' High). Most English schools have a bigger cultural diversity than Afrikaans schools and it is for that reason that I made my comment regarding language. I am married to an Englishman (and teach ENGLISH) so I am not biased based on the fact that I was born Afrikaans.

I have English friends who live in the aforementioned area who have decided to send their children to an Afrikaans school as they were taught in the English schools and prefer the school discipline of the Afrikaans schools in the area.

I will really appreciate it if the forumites would stop labelling me as racist. Read what I actually post and not what you THINK I mean!

[Elmarie61]

I was in an Afrikaans medium school where I had the opportunity to take English as a first language, thus I had Afrikaans and English first language. Not sure if there are any schools like this in your area..?

Perhaps if your daughter goes to an Afrikaans school, you could sit with her once a week to help her translate what she has learnt that week. For example 'maal' in English is 'times' etc. could help later on?

[buzz]

Some of you might find this research document interesting:

Title: Education equity for children from diverse language backgrounds: Mother tongue-based bilingual or multilingual education in the early years.

Author: J Ball, M.P.H., PhD., University of Victoria, Canada

Publication date: 2010

http://reach.uvic.ca/documents/UNESCOSummary2010.pdf

[Gl!tter~Sm!tter]

Yea buzz, but the thing is these parents plan on immigrating in 3 years. The child will have no option but to receive education in English. I would rather prepare the child now, grade 1 where fundamental basics are taught, making it easier for her, then.

[Toitjie]

What Glitter says is true, its your decision and should be what you are comfortable with. We can only give opinions and what we did.

We decided to keep our kids in an Afrikaans school, they are now Grade 1 and 2 respectively. My reasoning was a few things - Afrikaans is precious to me and they still have to learn so many words, expressions and typical things in this language. When we are in Oz, English will dominate, Afrikaans will still be spoken at home, but my mom's best friend who has been in Brisbane for 20 years, her kids were also Afrikaans but now almost never speak it. So its a little of an emotional decision too.

but apart from that, I subscribed to www.readingeggs.com.au which is THE most fantastic interactive english learning programme I have ever come across. My kids are healthy and happy because they are comfortable in a school where they speak their mother tongue, they are relatively fluent in English (they understand perfectly and speak well)

Another reason was that the emmigration will put them under a lot of stress and I decided not to add to that stress by putting them in an English school, thus making the adapting more difficult. I reasoned that they will have to adapt to a new country, a new life, a new language so to speak, new friends etc, I didnt want to rock the boat so soon, as harder times awaits...

But kids are resilient little things, and whatever you do, support them, talk to them, help them and let them know it will be ok.

for the record, I have always been in an Afrikaans environment, from kindergarten to matric, and my studies up to masters level was in English and I had no problems whatsoever. I dont think kids in Afrikaans schools are at a disadvantage when it comes to English tertiary studies at all! And I aced my IELTS!! There is hope for us boertjies yet.. :)

[Gl!tter~Sm!tter]

LOL oh my goodness this poor mother must be so confused already!

Watookal Vennie, jy sal okay wees, jou kind sal okay wees als sal in plek val.

At least you care enough to consider her above anything else

[Superkruz]

I will really appreciate it if the forumites would stop labelling me as racist. Read what I actually post and not what you THINK I mean!

Moenie jou nie steur aan sulke mense nie. Jy kan nie help dat jy blank en Afrikaans is nie en sodra jy van iemand verkil is jy mos 'n rassis - dis belaglik..... dis amper asof blanke Afrikaners nie meer 'n opninie mag lug nie, uit vrees dat mens een of ander naam toegesnou sal word. Ek weier om "verskoning" te vra oor my velkeur of my taal.... as ek 'n opinie het, is ek net so geregtig soos enige ander mens om dit te lug. Skaam julle. Edited October 31, 2012 by Superkruz

[Gl!tter~Sm!tter]

Moenie jou nie steur aan sulke mense nie. Jy kan nie help dat jy blank en Afrikaans is nie en sodra jy van iemand verkil is jy mos 'n rassis - dis belaglik....

Waaaar val jy uit super? Niemand het gese sy is rassis nie, sy label haarself as rassis!!! Syt gese Engelse skole se kinders het engels as n 4de 5de selfs 8 taal. So m.a.w die meeste van die skool is swart. Wie het Engels as n 8ste taal? Beslis nie n porra of n duitser of n fransman nie? Ek sê dit is NIE so nie. Daar is n goeie balaans van wit, swart, kleurling, Indian in die skole. Behalwe in hierdie klein Afrikaanse dorpies waar die kinders natuurlik in Afrikaanse skole is en die swartes van oorvloed in die Engelse skole. Ek is nie gepla oor ras nie man, ras is wat die drama in hierdie land veroorsaak. Soos wat daarvan is op elke topic waar dit altyd dieselfde persone is wat in n ander se karakter en kultuur wil inklim

Skaam julle.

Skaam JOU! Kry jou feite agter mekaar voor jy n klip in die bos gooi ou

[rozellem]

Ek sal wat wou gee vir twee jaar in n Afr skool vir my klein Afrikaanse Aussies. My man het onlangs n twee jaar kontrak in Kaapstad oorweeg, maar toe het ons die moord/ keel afsny drama van my kinderdag vriendin gehad en weet nou dat daar nooit n manier sal wees dat ons terug sal gaan nie. Nie vir al die geld of familie of taal in die wereld nie.

[Superkruz]

Waaaar val jy uit super? Niemand het gese sy is rassis nie, sy label haarself as rassis!!! Syt gese Engelse skole se kinders het engels as n 4de 5de selfs 8 taal. So m.a.w die meeste van die skool is swart. Wie het Engels as n 8ste taal? Beslis nie n porra of n duitser of n fransman nie? Ek sê dit is NIE so nie. Daar is n goeie balaans van wit, swart, kleurling, Indian in die skole. Behalwe in hierdie klein Afrikaanse dorpies waar die kinders natuurlik in Afrikaanse skole is en die swartes van oorvloed in die Engelse skole. Ek is nie gepla oor ras nie man, ras is wat die drama in hierdie land veroorsaak. Soos wat daarvan is op elke topic waar dit altyd dieselfde persone is wat in n ander se karakter en kultuur wil inklim

Skaam julle.

Skaam JOU! Kry jou feite agter mekaar voor jy n klip in die bos gooi ou

Smaak my iemand het 'n skuldige gewete... ek het jou naam nooit eens genoem nie, of met/van jou gepraat nie, so ek weet nie waar val jy uit nie mevroutjie.

Maar nou dat ek jou aandag het wil ek sommer gou byvoeg dat ek regtig nie met 'n alwetende wysneus soos jy wil redekawel nie.