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...sour grapes?


zamunda

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The other day we met up with some South Africans that had tried to settle down in Oz and then returned back.

When they heard that we were in the process of moving over to Oz all they could do was try to be negative and discourage us.

Here are some of the comments we received :-

"....one has to take a happy pill to get through each day in Oz. Everyone is too friendly and happy. It is not normal".

Our answer - "so what's wrong in a happy society?".

"...too many rules and regulations. Even on the roads. No room for spontaneity".

Our answer - "spontaneity certainly does wonders on South African roads"

".....you get ripped off in Oz. Too many fraudsters there. We lost money in Oz".

Our answer - "our sympathies. you must be one of the very few"

"...we can't imagine how you are going to manage without maids".

Our answer - "we will do just fine. We are not a lazy bunch" (never spoke to us after this :) )

I am quite sure their reasons for returning had nothing to do with what they said. But if it is true then I can only feel very sorry for them.

We have been travelling to Oz each year for the past six years. Each time lived the life rather than travelling around like tourists. So we know the difference and nothing anyone says can change our minds about Oz. But I felt that it was more of a case of "sour grapes".

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Well, not everyone from SA is necessarily a snob...thats a bit harsh.

I have met heaps of snobs here, granted, my own opinion, being Afrikaans and from Pretoria, some English speaking people especially from Jo'burg looked down at me. But I also know (both Afrikaans and English) wonderfull unsnobbish people from SA. I think more than the snobs!

Its always like this, one bad apple causes the whole basket of good apples to get a bad name.

I especially liked the fact that they were talking about me in Afrikaans.....

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I heard of a family who arrived in Canberra in February, who have now repacked the container and moved back to the RSA in April. Never met them and don't know the reason why!. Its been said before, emigration is not for sissies. Its a hard reality when you get here and have to start over.

But may I add, all worth it!

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I think you've got to be a complete moron to head back to SA within a couple of months. Immigration isn't for everyone, but you've got give it a reasonable amount of time before you decide what's best for you and your family. What is there about Oz that would force someone to pack up so quickly? They obviously weren't serious about it in the first place.

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What i find most fasinating, is that yes most mis the maid and the gardner, but if you don't have a plan and run into financial trouble, you can make good money working for a cleaning company, till you get the job you want. I think some people need to take a reality check and realise that in AUstralia, maids make $30 and hour which is not bad for a start in this country. +$240 a day +$1200 per week. Not bad if you are in a fix. That is the equivilant of earning R9000 per week in South Africa, so you see, big difference when in another country :: =R 37800 just under R40 000 a month, way above SA salaries. Its all in the mind and the Ego for many. If you want it to work it will, you just have to try a bit harder.

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I don't think the "argument" is whether it is good or bad / right or wrong / justified or not to have a maid or cleaning service - the "argument" is that people would go back to RSA because they could not cope without it - in other words, that THAT is the one thing which made them give up everything which is good about Australia. It blows my mind that you'd rather be killed in your bed than having to make it (an actual quote from a Saffer who refused to immigrate for that one reason - not wanting to do their own housework or have to pay a decent pay for someone to do it...)

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I must be a dirty untidy person ? I just dont care about a bit of dust and some unironed shirts and a few weeds in the garden.

Im too busy enjoying my life here - and a dustfree house is not a priority !! My house is small for this very reason. I didnt come to Australia to spend my life cleaning or to pay someone else to clean after me. It wasnt even something I considered in my immigration plan. If you want help here theres heaps of companies that will clean for you. Whats the big deal ? They obviously hadnt budgeted for full time help.

Sbhennops, I agree, people say they will drop their standards when they get here, but many forget saying this when the going gets tough. They blame it on Australia. My husband and I run our own small business, we are truely blessed - yet I still work 6 hours as a cashier at the ice rink/pool on Sundays. The pay, and perks are excellant. I have saffers turn their noses up at me - what Im doing is obviously below them.

When you get the opportunity to start a new chapter in your lives, one where you can live life to the fullest, grab it with both hands and make the most of the opportunity. Immigration is not for wussies - if youre prepared to feel all the emotions, all the uphills that go with it and realise its all part of the journey- I doubt anyone in their right mind would return to South Africa.

Just my 2c.

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Who cares if someone has a cleaner or not :wacko: . If you can afford one, then great, if not then maybe one day. I have been at the same company for 12 years and I am the bookkeeper, admin. manager, office manager, you name it I do it. I am so tired of doing the same thing in the same office and seeing the same people everyday, I am thinking of trying to find a job in a shop when we 1st arrive, despite have a diploma in advanced accounts management. Who knows, I might love it or I might hate it. As long as I earn a decent wage for an honest days work I don't care, I just want to be in Australia NOW. :wub:

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We have a cleaner for 4 hrs a week. It costs $100. She cleans the bathrooms, vacuums, mops & polishes if there's time. She gets a higher hourly rate than I do, but I don't care. I'd rather pay her. And anyway, we paid our maid much, much more in SA so why not have a cleaner? We dropped our standards here, but our house is semi-hygenic & we are sane. Just because I moved to Australia, I didn't suddenly start to love scrubbing showers!

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I must be a dirty untidy person ? I just dont care about a bit of dust and some unironed shirts and a few weeds in the garden.

Im too busy enjoying my life here - and a dustfree house is not a priority !! My house is small for this very reason. I didnt come to Australia to spend my life cleaning or to pay someone else to clean after me. It wasnt even something I considered in my immigration plan. If you want help here theres heaps of companies that will clean for you. Whats the big deal ? They obviously hadnt budgeted for full time help.

Sbhennops, I agree, people say they will drop their standards when they get here, but many forget saying this when the going gets tough. They blame it on Australia. My husband and I run our own small business, we are truely blessed - yet I still work 6 hours as a cashier at the ice rink/pool on Sundays. The pay, and perks are excellant. I have saffers turn their noses up at me - what Im doing is obviously below them.

When you get the opportunity to start a new chapter in your lives, one where you can live life to the fullest, grab it with both hands and make the most of the opportunity. Immigration is not for wussies - if youre prepared to feel all the emotions, all the uphills that go with it and realise its all part of the journey- I doubt anyone in their right mind would return to South Africa.

Just my 2c.

Agreed I work n retail and heaps of saffers come into the shop and look down on me, saffers are very materialistic and snobbish

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Well, not everyone from SA is necessarily a snob...thats a bit harsh.

I have met heaps of snobs here, granted, my own opinion, being Afrikaans and from Pretoria, some English speaking people especially from Jo'burg looked down at me. But I also know (both Afrikaans and English) wonderfull unsnobbish people from SA. I think more than the snobs!

Its always like this, one bad apple causes the whole basket of good apples to get a bad name.

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what I said before is i find it highly irritating that somebody brings over their SA maid to Aus for assistance - as the case with a doctor I heard of in rockhampton - highly irritating

1 the domestic worker is committing an offense by working, when not on a visa that allows them to work in Australia, I suspect while in the country on a visitors visa.

2 the employer is committing an offense by employing someone without an appropriate visa.

3 I suspect the employer is more than likely committing an offense by not paying the min wage required in Australia.

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We have a cleaner for 4 hrs a week. It costs $100. She cleans the bathrooms, vacuums, mops & polishes if there's time. She gets a higher hourly rate than I do, but I don't care. I'd rather pay her. And anyway, we paid our maid much, much more in SA so why not have a cleaner? We dropped our standards here, but our house is semi-hygenic & we are sane. Just because I moved to Australia, I didn't suddenly start to love scrubbing showers!

Hahaha. Exactly right.

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We get a Korean husband and wife team in for a hour and a half, once a week, for $70. The husband does the floors (vacuum and mop) and the bathroom, I think the wife does the rest. They have a key and I try to be out when they are here. They bring all their own products, including the vacuum cleaner and is as fast as hell. Many people around us, in Inner West Sydney, have cleaners. Its a little treat I gave myself when I had two kids in under two years. Each to their own.

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My 2 cents on why people generally go back:

They simply can not live with the heartbreak of missing their family. If you come from a close family, then it is really really tough to get over that hurdle, and some ppl just don't give it enough time. It takes up to 2 years to get to the point where you're not crying your eyes out. KNOW that you will go through a tough time emotionally, that you will miss your family/friends terribly and cry a lot - sometimes to the point where you can't stop and fall into a deep depression. If you won't cope with that and are unwilling to dig deep and work through it, don't get on that plane. You HAVE to be prepared for those emotions and you HAVE to be willing to sit it out.

They can not cope without the maid, the gardener... No need to say more...

They do not want to take a step back financially. They come here thinking that they'll buy a house in a few weeks, the one with the pool, the lapa... in the best street on "skuldbult". They can see themselves cruising along the coastline in their BMW cabriolet, seeing their kids off to the best private schools money can buy and landing that job with the corner office and the view over the city skyline... It's not going to happen! You'll probably have to live in a smaller house, drive a sensible car and enrol your kids in the local public school - nothing wrong with that, but some people can simply not deal with that. Their materialistic wants overrule all logic to the point where they want it all back, no matter what. Everybody wants the good life, but the good life in Aus is not the same as the good life in RSA. If you are not willing to take a few steps down, then don't bother - you'll be back in RSA before you know it! You HAVE to re-assess your priorities and rid yourself of your materialistic needs if you want to live the REAL good life in Aus.

Career/Job Satisfaction & Prospects. Sometimes you have to take a "lower" role/position with a less "flash" title to get your foot in the door and obtain Aussie work experience. Not everyone like to do that. It's all about what's on that business card in a very competitive market. You may have had your own business in RSA where you were the boss and main peanut, or you had a role high up in the company you worked for in RSA - it is a bitter pill for some to be lower down in the hierachy and even harder to admit to the friends/family back home or the fellow Saffers at the Saffer BBQ. It's a status thing and some ppl can simly not look past that. If you don't have a job in Aus then you're either too lazy or you're too fuzzy... There's plenty of work and if you're not willing to shed some preconceived ideas you'll have a hard time.

They live with one foot in Aus and one foot in RSA. What a recipe for conflict on all levels! In yourself, with your family & friends "back home", with your fellow Saffers in Aus... You only have to look at some Saffer Facebook groups to experience this. You'll neve have peace in your heart (or with anyone else) if you don't make that call and move on. I'm not saying stop eating biltong - I'm saying, make Australia your home and embrace it without forgetting your roots.

People forget why they made the move in the first place. It's like a woman giving birth - she swears she'll NEVER EVER have another child. Two years on, and it's all forgotten and she get's all broody. It's the same when moving to Australia. As time goes on, you find more and more about Australia which irritates the living daylights out of you and you remember less and less about the reasons why you wanted a better life. Suddenly the barbed wire and affirmative action does not seem so bad after all. You complain about the pothole in the road which has not been fixed since it appeared last week and you forget about the gun you had to carry with you 24/7. So many times the advice is given to make a list of the reasons you left and to stick it somewhere you could look at it all the time. Do that!

Unrealistic expectations, like others have said, is a huge reason why people want to go back. This is not utopia - we've said it so many times, and yet, people still arrive here with stars in their eyes and dreams about a wonderful life. There's so much that goes into living in a new country and if it does not hit you right away, it WILL hit you. Just finding a place to buy a desk is a mission - you don't even know where to start looking! When your dryer konks in on a rainy day you don't have a friend down the road you could pop over to to help out. You don't even know where to find a laundromat! If you don't have a job yet, you may struggle to find one initially. The house you rent is a dump because it is all you can afford until you find a job. None of your furniture fit in your house! Your fridge is down in the garage... You have to do a driving test again, jump throuh millions of hoops to open bank accounts, register for tax, apply for medicare etc etc. You'll hit the ground running and will fall flat on your face if you're not ready for it. Australia is not South Africa with kangaroos and without crime. You may get your wallet stolen or you may have a hoon doing burn-outs in your street. It's life.

Too many rules. Seriously?! In my opinion this is just a sorry excuse if they either don't want to admit that they failed at something else or simply found it too hard to try! There's nothing wrong with making that decision to go back, and although I can not understand why anyone would want to do that willingly, I do accept that sometimes circumstances work our that way. The thing which cheeses me off big time is when ppl go back and slander Australia for not making it. It is not Australia's fault you could not do your own dishes or need to have a pool in your backyard to feel you've accomplished something. It's not Australia's fault you missed your family or had no support system. Just be honest about it. Man up!

No matter how positive you are and how well prepared, sometimes the unfortunate happens and forces you to go back (visa expired/cancelled, family circumstances etc) - which is very sad. There's nothing worse than desperately wanting to stay but having no choice!

I probably said more than enough already... :mellow:

Brilliant post Riekie, I think your points are 100% on the money and it's really well written.

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A bit of context, I’m very fortunate to have multiple citizenships (Oz, Swiss and SA). In 2004 I moved overseas to Dubai, then to Switzerland (Lausanne), then to UK. In 2009 came back to SA. In 2004 while I was in Dubai, my wife arranged our marriage in SA, during that time I moved from Dubai to Swiss, came back got married, had a 3 day honeymoon, left to return to Swiss. My wife then moved over to Switzerland in Dec 04.

My wife was very excited to move overseas after we were married, to Switzerland of all places. The life style she had set in her mind was that of James Bond, come on, it looks fantastic on TV. So my wife finally gets on the plane and flies out in Dec 04 to come join me, all excited. Arrives and its 2 degrees Celsius, dark and biting cold. The apartment that I had secured was unfurnished, I was 27 years old, had moved a few times in the year, got married, 130 guest everything paid for the wedding, drinks food etc, guest just had to show up. So money was very tight. All I had managed to scrape together was enough to buy a 37cm TV, a mattress for a bed and two sitting chairs, some cooking pots and plates. We did not have money for a kettle, so boiled water on the stove in a pot. I still had a house in SA that was bonded and so there where a million things drawing on our finances. As most of us know, in any family, when money is short, so tempers become short etc.

So for my wife this must have been one hell of an eye opener of note. To add to the misery, I had to go to work, and the wife was on her own, no friends, in a country where she could not speak the language. The people are very reserved and closed in Switzerland. Pretty tough. I think it really broke her and that made my first year with my newly married wife was very difficult, We had known each other already for 3 years before getting married. Here I am in one year, moving jobs twice, in two different countries and getting married. They say one major change is hard to do. Almost 8 years later, we are happily married, have a very strong marriage and a wonderful daughter, and I owe it all to that 1st year when we went through the toughest challenges ever, learnt a lot about ourselves and decided that life a challenge, get up and grab it by the horns and work through each issue, worry about what you can control, and that which you can’t, forget about it.

The fact of my message is that moving is not easy, there many bumps and bends in the road. On top of that there is no way to plan your life down to the tee, you can set some objectives but it is next to impossible to be able to determine the outcome, just as you get going, bang something hits you in the face. There will never be a right time to have kids, get married, change job, move country or anything. Some choices you make will not turn out well, but stop crying about it, get on with it and work through it.

I’ve also learnt that if you not happy about something, then do something about it, make a decision what you want to do quickly, execute it and get on with it.

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Wow, and here I was, thinking WE had it tough at times in those early days! Good on you! If only more ppl could have your attitude, there will be much less whinging!

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They say IF IT GETS TOO HOT IN THE KITCHEN, GET OUT!!

We are moving to another KITCHEN :D

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I feel I have to put in my 10c as well if I may.

"Maid"...Heard about it alot while growing up. Never had one. Done dishes when at the age of 6 and never stopped.

Mowed the lawn myself(No pocket money), it was the rules at my house.

In SA its too dangerous have a maid or a garden engineer.

They are most of the problems in my own personal view.

Planning is important when moving there.

We expect to live in a small crummy place(Its motivation enough to work hard and find a better place.)

Willing to start at the bottom at a new company (They first have to see what can be achieved and so move up again for 3de time).

Willing to turn over every sent 4 times before spending it. (Wife is a "specials" Hunter with a GPS.-she alway find the specials as where I always fail.)

Children know that luxeries is a thing of the past(Untill we are settled).

Beginning of saving plan is in place. Not much but a start. R400/Month.

I will be willing to cut my neighbours grass and work in his garden if it means my savings can go up and I can buy what is needed for my family.

God gave me hands to work with, a brain to make a plan, a heart to remember the suffering and the scars to show success achieved.

My wife is my best friend, my companion, my little voice in my head and the children is my reason to achieve my goals.

Planning....its beed done and still in process. you can never plan to much.

I have a saying in my office behind me....IF YOU DON'T PLAN, YOU PLAN TO FAIL!!!.

Just my 10c worth and my own personal view.

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You can make the best of any situation :) I work in retail, we merchandise stock ( fancy word for unpack boxes and arrange stock to make it look pretty), it's tiring and long hours, but I rather be doing this than working in my cushy job in RSA, Iv meet fascinating people in the shop and it's truly interesting. The lady that owns the cleaning business that cleans our floors is one such inspiration, her teenage daughter was murdered over 10 years ago in their home by a girl who was jealous of her as she was in love with her boyfriend. Stabbed 27 times. She goes and visits this young lady in prison and helps out as a volunteer. She has come to terms with an awful situation and has turned it into something positive. She also does the cleans when her ladies are on leave.

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...

My wife is my best friend, my companion, my little voice in my head and the children is my reason to achieve my goals.

...

What a lovely description...with your family inspiring you your odds of success are very high...good luck!!

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If you are not willing to take a few steps down, then don't bother - you'll be back in RSA before you know it! You HAVE to re-assess your priorities and rid yourself of your materialistic needs if you want to live the REAL good life in Aus.

Great Post. You said it all. Hallelujah. THE TRUTH.

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I must be a dirty untidy person ? I just dont care about a bit of dust and some unironed shirts and a few weeds in the garden.

Im too busy enjoying my life here - and a dustfree house is not a priority !! My house is small for this very reason. I didnt come to Australia to spend my life cleaning or to pay someone else to clean after me. It wasnt even something I considered in my immigration plan. If you want help here theres heaps of companies that will clean for you. Whats the big deal ? They obviously hadnt budgeted for full time help.

Sbhennops, I agree, people say they will drop their standards when they get here, but many forget saying this when the going gets tough. They blame it on Australia. My husband and I run our own small business, we are truely blessed - yet I still work 6 hours as a cashier at the ice rink/pool on Sundays. The pay, and perks are excellant. I have saffers turn their noses up at me - what Im doing is obviously below them.

When you get the opportunity to start a new chapter in your lives, one where you can live life to the fullest, grab it with both hands and make the most of the opportunity. Immigration is not for wussies - if youre prepared to feel all the emotions, all the uphills that go with it and realise its all part of the journey- I doubt anyone in their right mind would return to South Africa.

Just my 2c.

I have to agree with Lyn.

I am willing to work in gardens, sweep the streets, clean dustbins untill I get to my feet, knowing that it was worth it in the long run.

I will NEVER EVER look down at someone who is working.

They have the guts to stand up in the morning and sweat for the whole day to provide for their family.

A person Who gets up to work everyday has all my respect.

That tells me he wants to get some where in life and nothing was handed to him for free. He worked for it.

It's sad to hear about poeple getting there and pack up after a few months and come back.

The financial implications might not be so bad on them.

I know of a few poeple that will grasp at an opportunity like that to make a clean start and better provide for his family. :(

Well another 10c from me, sorry must be 15c (Inflation and all that)

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Why is it wrong making use of a cleaning service?? I mean, if you earn that type of money to be able to afford certain luxuries, i.e. cleaning service, personal training at the gym etc. why not do it. I can understand why people do it...

It is surely not wrong to want it, afford it and enjoy it. (Why else would we eat chocolate!!!!??? :ilikeit: )

It is wrong to think your life will end without it, withold your family from an opportunity just because you "need it" and fear a life without it!

Enjoy it and don't feel guilty about the small pleasures in life.

I do not think at this stage we will be able to afford any such service, so I am preparing myself to live without. Personal choice.

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Hey Zamunda,

We talk on this forum like Australia is a nirvana of sorts once you compare it to South Africa. But nowhere in the world is everyone's cup of tea.

Most people seem to return because of problems with their Visas. But from what I can see on this forum, a lot of people are also forced back because they didn't plan properly. They had unrealistic ideas of their job prospects, they ran out of money, etc...

When you said they had another reason for leaving, that they wouldn't discuss. I would bet the reason boils down to a lack of planning which lead to them having unrealistic expectations...

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