...sour grapes?

[zamunda]

The other day we met up with some South Africans that had tried to settle down in Oz and then returned back.

When they heard that we were in the process of moving over to Oz all they could do was try to be negative and discourage us.

Here are some of the comments we received :-

"....one has to take a happy pill to get through each day in Oz. Everyone is too friendly and happy. It is not normal".

Our answer - "so what's wrong in a happy society?".

"...too many rules and regulations. Even on the roads. No room for spontaneity".

Our answer - "spontaneity certainly does wonders on South African roads"

".....you get ripped off in Oz. Too many fraudsters there. We lost money in Oz".

Our answer - "our sympathies. you must be one of the very few"

"...we can't imagine how you are going to manage without maids".

Our answer - "we will do just fine. We are not a lazy bunch" (never spoke to us after this )

I am quite sure their reasons for returning had nothing to do with what they said. But if it is true then I can only feel very sorry for them.

We have been travelling to Oz each year for the past six years. Each time lived the life rather than travelling around like tourists. So we know the difference and nothing anyone says can change our minds about Oz. But I felt that it was more of a case of "sour grapes".

[monsta]

Hey Zamunda,

We talk on this forum like Australia is a nirvana of sorts once you compare it to South Africa. But nowhere in the world is everyone's cup of tea.

Most people seem to return because of problems with their Visas. But from what I can see on this forum, a lot of people are also forced back because they didn't plan properly. They had unrealistic ideas of their job prospects, they ran out of money, etc...

When you said they had another reason for leaving, that they wouldn't discuss. I would bet the reason boils down to a lack of planning which lead to them having unrealistic expectations...

[zamunda]

Hi Monsta

My sentiments the same. Most don't plan properly.

No place on earth is Nirvana. However, OZ certainly has a lot more positives than SA. Guess that's why Oz is ranked the 2nd best country to live in and SA comes in at 84. As I said we have been travelling to Oz over a number of years and have a lot we can compare.

The biggest problem a lot of migrants have is poor planning. Also, one has to do a lot of networking if they don't have an existing social support system once they get there.

Financially it is realistic to plan on not finding work for at least six months after arriving. Also, one must not expect to get the same level of job as one had in SA when in Oz. Be prepared to start at a lower ranking and work up.

One of the said people that had returned to SA is a CA and had worked as a senior financial planner when he was in SA. I am quite sure he expected that level of a job when in Oz.

[Riekie]

My 2 cents on why people generally go back:

They simply can not live with the heartbreak of missing their family. If you come from a close family, then it is really really tough to get over that hurdle, and some ppl just don't give it enough time. It takes up to 2 years to get to the point where you're not crying your eyes out. KNOW that you will go through a tough time emotionally, that you will miss your family/friends terribly and cry a lot - sometimes to the point where you can't stop and fall into a deep depression. If you won't cope with that and are unwilling to dig deep and work through it, don't get on that plane. You HAVE to be prepared for those emotions and you HAVE to be willing to sit it out.

They can not cope without the maid, the gardener... No need to say more...

They do not want to take a step back financially. They come here thinking that they'll buy a house in a few weeks, the one with the pool, the lapa... in the best street on "skuldbult". They can see themselves cruising along the coastline in their BMW cabriolet, seeing their kids off to the best private schools money can buy and landing that job with the corner office and the view over the city skyline... It's not going to happen! You'll probably have to live in a smaller house, drive a sensible car and enrol your kids in the local public school - nothing wrong with that, but some people can simply not deal with that. Their materialistic wants overrule all logic to the point where they want it all back, no matter what. Everybody wants the good life, but the good life in Aus is not the same as the good life in RSA. If you are not willing to take a few steps down, then don't bother - you'll be back in RSA before you know it! You HAVE to re-assess your priorities and rid yourself of your materialistic needs if you want to live the REAL good life in Aus.

Career/Job Satisfaction & Prospects. Sometimes you have to take a "lower" role/position with a less "flash" title to get your foot in the door and obtain Aussie work experience. Not everyone like to do that. It's all about what's on that business card in a very competitive market. You may have had your own business in RSA where you were the boss and main peanut, or you had a role high up in the company you worked for in RSA - it is a bitter pill for some to be lower down in the hierachy and even harder to admit to the friends/family back home or the fellow Saffers at the Saffer BBQ. It's a status thing and some ppl can simly not look past that. If you don't have a job in Aus then you're either too lazy or you're too fuzzy... There's plenty of work and if you're not willing to shed some preconceived ideas you'll have a hard time.

They live with one foot in Aus and one foot in RSA. What a recipe for conflict on all levels! In yourself, with your family & friends "back home", with your fellow Saffers in Aus... You only have to look at some Saffer Facebook groups to experience this. You'll neve have peace in your heart (or with anyone else) if you don't make that call and move on. I'm not saying stop eating biltong - I'm saying, make Australia your home and embrace it without forgetting your roots.

People forget why they made the move in the first place. It's like a woman giving birth - she swears she'll NEVER EVER have another child. Two years on, and it's all forgotten and she get's all broody. It's the same when moving to Australia. As time goes on, you find more and more about Australia which irritates the living daylights out of you and you remember less and less about the reasons why you wanted a better life. Suddenly the barbed wire and affirmative action does not seem so bad after all. You complain about the pothole in the road which has not been fixed since it appeared last week and you forget about the gun you had to carry with you 24/7. So many times the advice is given to make a list of the reasons you left and to stick it somewhere you could look at it all the time. Do that!

Unrealistic expectations, like others have said, is a huge reason why people want to go back. This is not utopia - we've said it so many times, and yet, people still arrive here with stars in their eyes and dreams about a wonderful life. There's so much that goes into living in a new country and if it does not hit you right away, it WILL hit you. Just finding a place to buy a desk is a mission - you don't even know where to start looking! When your dryer konks in on a rainy day you don't have a friend down the road you could pop over to to help out. You don't even know where to find a laundromat! If you don't have a job yet, you may struggle to find one initially. The house you rent is a dump because it is all you can afford until you find a job. None of your furniture fit in your house! Your fridge is down in the garage... You have to do a driving test again, jump throuh millions of hoops to open bank accounts, register for tax, apply for medicare etc etc. You'll hit the ground running and will fall flat on your face if you're not ready for it. Australia is not South Africa with kangaroos and without crime. You may get your wallet stolen or you may have a hoon doing burn-outs in your street. It's life.

Too many rules. Seriously?! In my opinion this is just a sorry excuse if they either don't want to admit that they failed at something else or simply found it too hard to try! There's nothing wrong with making that decision to go back, and although I can not understand why anyone would want to do that willingly, I do accept that sometimes circumstances work our that way. The thing which cheeses me off big time is when ppl go back and slander Australia for not making it. It is not Australia's fault you could not do your own dishes or need to have a pool in your backyard to feel you've accomplished something. It's not Australia's fault you missed your family or had no support system. Just be honest about it. Man up!

No matter how positive you are and how well prepared, sometimes the unfortunate happens and forces you to go back (visa expired/cancelled, family circumstances etc) - which is very sad. There's nothing worse than desperately wanting to stay but having no choice!

I probably said more than enough already...

[Aneldari]

Great post, Riekie! That is very true. I also agree with poor planning and not having your priorities right...

[ChantelTHL]

Well said Riekie. It annoys me so much when family / friends tell me we will not make it in Oz, because of reasons as mentioned above.

My mother's first reaction when we told her we are immigrating, was "how am I going to survive without my domestic worker" ... My answer ... "luckily I had a mother who thought me well, so I will be fine". Mother was not impressed with my answer!

We have spoken to so many Saffers in Oz and I have read every blog about immigration I could possibly find, as well as this forum and believe we are mentally prepared... Bring it on!!!!!

[Lyn]

Riekie - spot on.

People need to do their homework. We are seeing this with my husbands cousin - amazingly they came over on a LSD - loved Sydney but now eight months on living in the northern beaches area and hubby unemployed things are not so rosey. When we ask of their immigration plan - they say they never had one.

We all take a huge leap of faith moving here, but you need to be prepared. Start small, and build yourself up again - have patience. And be prepared for the heartache of missing loved ones - this took at least 3 years for me.

zamunda, Id rather live in a happy, carefree society with rules and regulations and without a maid. As for ripped off - we've run our business for 2,5 years now, I have rarely had to beg for payment unlike in SAfrica.

Make plans and stick to them as much as possible.

[jas1]

Do people know that domestic worker / maid services ARE actually available in Australia? The rates aren't cheap, but you could still have someone help out once or twice a week?

Some examples:

http://www.houseproud.com.au/

http://www.maidmyday.com.au/

http://www.maidinsydney.com.au/

[bbop]

Never knew people put so much value on a maid? Pure laziness - one should clean up after himself

[ChantelTHL]

Never knew people put so much value on a maid? Pure laziness - one should clean up after himself

I must be honest, while still in SA and having a domestic, I really enjoy and appreciate her (as a very colourful person and good friend) but I really can live without her services. My kids know how to clean up after themselves. Since our decision to immigrate, our approach to keeping the house clean and our perception of Mrs. Domestic worker changed.

In general, our (SA!) kids are spoiled and lazy and as long as we have cheap labour.... It will not change!

[Emille]

Never knew people put so much value on a maid? Pure laziness - one should clean up after himself

i mentioned 'i dont understand why people in aus wants a maid' or something similar in this forum - i am happy to get out alive....(you are brave indeed)

Edited May 19, 2012 by Emille

[Bosch x 2]

Why is it wrong making use of a cleaning service?? I mean, if you earn that type of money to be able to afford certain luxuries, i.e. cleaning service, personal training at the gym etc. why not do it. I can understand why people do it...

[ChantelTHL]

Why is it wrong making use of a cleaning service?? I mean, if you earn that type of money to be able to afford certain luxuries, i.e. cleaning service, personal training at the gym etc. why not do it. I can understand why people do it...

It is surely not wrong to want it, afford it and enjoy it. (Why else would we eat chocolate!!!!??? )

It is wrong to think your life will end without it, withold your family from an opportunity just because you "need it" and fear a life without it!

Enjoy it and don't feel guilty about the small pleasures in life.

I do not think at this stage we will be able to afford any such service, so I am preparing myself to live without. Personal choice.

Edited May 19, 2012 by ChantelTHL

[jas1]

i mentioned 'i dont understand why people in aus wants a maid' or something similar in this forum - i am happy to get out alive....(you are brave indeed)

seems to be the status quo with just about any post these days

[Toitjie]

I have a domestic worker once a week, and Im not going to defend it. She is a tremendous help, but the kids have their chores, which is noted everyday on a big board, and I take care of the kitchen. she helps with ironing etc but I have no qualms to do everything myself

At one stage I thought of letting her go and start doing everything myself now, but I did not have the heart. The money I pay her is her only income, and on top of that, I give her food, clothes, blankets and old furniture to make her little house nicer.

I know this is a hugely controversial issue as past threads prove, but that person has a job now, and when we move, she will not have a job. So it's not only being spoilt as might be suggested above, but it does supply someone who is illeterate and who will not get any work anywhere else, with a job and an income. She supports her unemployed husband, her daugther and the daughter's baby.

[Springjock]

We used a cleaning service back in SA - where they drop off a team of maids to cleam your house over the period of an or hour, or you get one 'freelance' maid for the day.

We must have went through 40 different individuals because we would test their honesty by leaving R5 somewhere where they would stumble across it. EACH and EVERY time, the R5, and usually some other stuff was stolen.

I'll gladly clean my own house, thanks

[jas1]

We use Marvellous Maids in CT and have never once had anything go missing.

[joweni]

LOL: so many people said "Oh you will never cope with all your own housework in Oz especially your kids have been so used to having somebody pick up after them (true " )as we had domestics all our lives especially coming from Zim. Just not an issue here-get your little routine going: my jobs and hubby and our home is tidy and clean most of the time and if we don't get to something today oh well tomorrow is another day-not the be all and end all !! And a big bonus is that we now cook together as well enjoying a whole range of different foods that we would never have considered when living in Africa. Love going off to the markets to find new and interesting veg to cook as well as growing our own herbs and salad veg,three fruit trees and 2 chickens in our suburban backyard. As for our kids they are so house proud-love their own homes and keep them clean and tidy with minimum fuss and also turning out to be great cooks and bakers. So much more energy here to concentrate on the good things in life as we don't have to spend time worrying about whether the doors are locked and the security screens closed and where have I put my panic button and why are the dogs going crazy .................................. etc.etc

[Guest May]

Toitjie, a suggestion because its what I am trying to do with my helper, see if there are any little business opportunities she can do on the other days so she has another income, whether its selling vetkoek or chicken. Try and empower her that way. I am very fond of Florance and she travels clear across Jozi to get to me, has 3 children and her husband has just decided that his 1st wife and her family are more important so she has had to take a back seat. And typical Florance she does not complain I find this out from her brother.

[Emille]

what I said before is i find it highly irritating that somebody brings over their SA maid to Aus for assistance - as the case with a doctor I heard of in rockhampton - highly irritating

[Toitjie]

How the hell did he manage to get his maid over? surely she would need a visa and qualifications etc? oh...I guess it was something like an employer sponsored visa then? I have to agree... to go through THAT lengths just to get your domestic worker over here to help you with housework is plain ridiculous...

[Emille]

yes very pathetic - unless the maid wanted to emigrate which I very much doubt

[Donovan83]

It's amazing how one of the things i hate most about SA culture makes people pass judgments like this. I am still in SA and I have a maid - I'm providing her with employment. Somewhere in SA our culture got broken, it was around the time you stopped using terms like "maid" and started using terms like "domestic worker". All this does is imply that being a maid somehow makes you a lesser human being than someone that is say, an engineer.

It disgusts me how people in SA hear that someone is a mechanic or plumber and then they pull their face as if the person is somehow less valuable.

Edited to add - CA's are probably some of the people that are most guilty of this elitism.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Donovan83

[21yearsoutofrsa]

what I said before is i find it highly irritating that somebody brings over their SA maid to Aus for assistance - as the case with a doctor I heard of in rockhampton - highly irritating

1 the domestic worker is committing an offense by working, when not on a visa that allows them to work in Australia, I suspect while in the country on a visitors visa.

2 the employer is committing an offense by employing someone without an appropriate visa.

3 I suspect the employer is more than likely committing an offense by not paying the min wage required in Australia.

[Sibella]

Emille I responded to your previous post but it was tongue in cheek. Just after I had my baby we did have cleaners here in Melbourne, now that my baby is a little older we don't have them anymore as I'd rather spend the money on doing music classes with her. We cope but like today we spent our whole Sunday cleaning as we have a rental inspection tomorrow and to be honest I would've rather spent it doing something fun with my kids.

If you can afford it, why not? But having a cleaner here is not the same as in South Africa where you have a maid who stays the whole day, cleans your house and do your washing and ironing.

Here my kids are very adept at clearing after themselves, cleaning their rooms, vacuuming, unloading the dishwasher, sweeping etc. We've been out of South Africa for more than 5 years now and don't miss or need a maid. But sometimes a little extra help is nice to have.

[Cramer]

I heard of a family who arrived in Canberra in February, who have now repacked the container and moved back to the RSA in April. Never met them and don't know the reason why!. Its been said before, emigration is not for sissies. Its a hard reality when you get here and have to start over.

But may I add, all worth it!