UNHAPPY IN AUSTRALIA

[4Coetzees]

Lately I saw alot of posts about unhappiness with the move and the hubby and coping with the kids while hubby is working and house cleaning and etc etc etc.

Who wanted to return to SA after a few days or weeks or months and why?

Are there any that returned to SA and might go back to Australia?

Are there any of you that never want to return to Australia?

Edited July 16, 2010 by Want to go now....

[Robbie_P]

I also have family who still live in Zimbabwe and are farmers. They have had plenty of opportunity to move to Australia and South Africa, but they are really happy in Zimbabwe and have raised their 3 young boys (1-8 years in age) and refuse to move elsewhere as there kids and themselves love living in Zimbabwe despite all its issues.

[HansaPlease]

funny how these posts about 'returning home' always get 'hundreds' of replies... wonder what that means...

I don’t read too much into it because:

There are a handful of threads about moving back – not that many to choose from – so the ones that are there get hundreds of replies.

There are thousands upon thousands of threads about moving to Australia. Less replies because there are more to choose from.

I think you’ll find, if you add up the total amount of posts about leaving SA versus the total amount of posts about going back – you’ll probably find that the figures reflect the percentages of people who leave for Aus, and the small number who head back.

That's my 2c for the day.

[Eva]

my 2c....

living in RSA was like having a black and white TV

living in Australia is like having a colour TV

You just don't know what life can/should be like until you experience something different.

I love living in Australia!

I don't "slate" South Africa, but I am realistic (and honest) about what life is South Africa is like.

[NotLookingBack]

Well said, Eva.

I can honestly say now that we are not here anymore because we wanted to get out of SA, we are here because this is now home, because we absolutely love it here, and because we can't think of any place on earth we'd rather live.

You cannot get to that point unless you have lived here, put down your roots here, made friends here, and experienced at least some of what this place has to offer.

[Robbie_P]

Hi Eva,

I think the point I was trying to get was that I have met people from all over the world who lived in 1st World countries and have moved to South Africa by choice and for their love of the country, so I dont think yout statement of "living in RSA was like having a black and white TV, living in Australia is like having a colour TV, You just don't know what life can/should be like until you experience something different." really applies to these foreigners (and alot South Africans) who REALLY love their SA and love living in SA.

Also, I think everyone is entitled to their own choice and should not get branded as 'ignorant' or 'failing to see the light' just becuase they choose to live in South Africa.

[monsta]

Also, I think everyone is entitled to their own choice and should not get branded as 'ignorant' or 'failing to see the light' just becuase they choose to live in South Africa.

Hi Robbie_P,

The choice all boils down to your circumstances. RSA is great if you have a good job, a safe place for your kids to live and a foreign passport so you can get out in a hurry if needed.

As for you being "ignorant", as South Africans we take many kicks where it hurts, smile and move on. When I was down in Melbourne, I saw a "little old lady" walking up the road with her shopping cart... she walked into shops to buy things and everyone knew her by name, asked her about her latest medical complaints, etc...

There is a lot of security in knowing, that if I grow old in Australia, the government will make sure I have enough to get by, it will be safe for me to walk around and catch public transport, my neighbors will know who I am and help me out if anything goes wrong. That is worth a *lot*. How many thousands of old aged South Africans die destitute and alone each year?

In South Africa, we just accept that without a good pension, you just can't retire. We accept that we will need to pay a maid to check in on us, plead our optometrist to give us a letter so we can still drive to the shops at 80 years old, etc... That's "normal" in South Africa. People are just saying here that things like that are not "normal" in Australia

Cheers

Paul

Edited December 24, 2010 by monsta

[thehulls]

Hi Eva,

I think the point I was trying to get was that I have met people from all over the world who lived in 1st World countries and have moved to South Africa by choice and for their love of the country, so I dont think yout statement of "living in RSA was like having a black and white TV, living in Australia is like having a colour TV, You just don't know what life can/should be like until you experience something different." really applies to these foreigners (and alot South Africans) who REALLY love their SA and love living in SA.

Also, I think everyone is entitled to their own choice and should not get branded as 'ignorant' or 'failing to see the light' just becuase they choose to live in South Africa.

Hi Robbie,

At the end of the day each person has their own reasons for immigrating. Mine were for the security and future job security for my three sons and the fact that each member of my family had been touched by crime. I, too, tend not to run down South Africa BUT I am realistic about what actually happens there from experience. I have dear family and friends who still live there and thus I do not go about lambasting them as being "ignorant" or "failing to see the light". I do however feel that sometimes when people are battling with their decisions, they tend to generalise that all SA's who have moved to Oz, tend to run the country down - not so...I feel it is futile to wallow in the "why's" and get on living our wonderful lives in Australia.

My 2c...

Liesl

[AAAZR]

It's interesting to see all the different points of view. I get a feeling though that there are some expats that rationalise the move to Oz by slating South Africa - this I find unfair. I have some friends who have moved to Oz and even though they have never been victims of crime or been involved directly in anything which so many complain about, they have still moved and openly criticise SA.

Hi Crock,

I agree with most of what you said but the above....why wait to become a victim of crime? I don't need to be a victim of crime to see what's going on and I battle to understand why this is according to a lot of people (Gareth Cliff and friends included) almost a "prerequisite" for emigration..

We don't discuss our plans with any of our friends and also don't focus on the negatives of S.A. We're just focused on getting to Oz,we'll inform everybody once we have our visas. Like one of our friends recently told my husband: "I've been hijacked, shot at, held hostage during a bankrobbery and I still love S.A and will never leave. I'd rather be part of the solution than run away" All fair and well but is he listening to what he's saying? Who in their right mind would want to stay after all of that??? And people always saying they'd rather be part of the solution...what exactly are they doing to be part of the solution? Would criticising other people's very personal decision to emigrate perhaps count as being part of the solution...I doubt it!

We see our move as an adventure and I will not badmouth S.A because I also love this country alot,BUT not as much as I love my family and their safety.

A

[Mara]

All things aside, there was only one thing that motivated me to leave RSA, safety and a future for my children....I have landed with my butt in the butter!!!!!!

We had plenty more in the material things in RSA, but none of that would have mattered, had I lost my husband or one of my sons.

No I do not tend to run RSA down, but at the same time when an Aussie asks me about visiting the RSA, I am quite clear on how extremely careful they need to be!

[Mikej]

Crock wrote:

I get a feeling though that there are some expats that rationalise the move to Oz by slating South Africa - this I find unfair

I can only speak for myself and in my case you are totally and completely wrong.

There is no need to rationalise at all, after living in Australia for 3 years I can say (in fact I could say it after about 1 week) without any doubt or lack of conviction that living in Australia is like being on a different planet to South Africa. The differences between the two countries are patently obvious and life in Australia is better in every way than in South Africa.

While I can understand and appreciate your decision to stay in South Africa please accept my genuine lack of doubt about my decision to leave South Africa.

Consider too, the possibility that it is unfair of you to make assumptions about what motivates people, whithout ever having met them.

Thank you

Michael

[funtobeaussiechick]

Hi Eva,

I think the point I was trying to get was that I have met people from all over the world who lived in 1st World countries and have moved to South Africa by choice and for their love of the country, so I dont think yout statement of "living in RSA was like having a black and white TV, living in Australia is like having a colour TV, You just don't know what life can/should be like until you experience something different." really applies to these foreigners (and alot South Africans) who REALLY love their SA and love living in SA.

Also, I think everyone is entitled to their own choice and should not get branded as 'ignorant' or 'failing to see the light' just becuase they choose to live in South Africa.

I am curious Robby, have you ever lived in Australia and if so what made you leave and if not then what is your real interest in this forum?

I do agree that we all can make whatever choices we wish to make in life and live where we want to

[Eva]

Hi Eva,

I think the point I was trying to get was that I have met people from all over the world who lived in 1st World countries and have moved to South Africa by choice and for their love of the country, so I dont think yout statement of "living in RSA was like having a black and white TV, living in Australia is like having a colour TV, You just don't know what life can/should be like until you experience something different." really applies to these foreigners (and alot South Africans) who REALLY love their SA and love living in SA.

Also, I think everyone is entitled to their own choice and should not get branded as 'ignorant' or 'failing to see the light' just becuase they choose to live in South Africa.

Hi Robbie

I was not actually replying to your post.

Merely giving my "2c" worth to the various discussions on this thread.

With regard to the people you are talking about having moved to South Africa from Europe or wherever, out of choice etc etc, just remember they always have a 'back door', so I am not sure you can compare them with South Africans living in South Africa.

My own father was an immigrant to South Africa so I think I have more than a little experience with 'foreigners' living in South Africa.

I agree with you 100% that everyone has their own choice and I never called anyone 'ignorant' or claimed they were 'failing to see the light' for living in South Africa.

My experience is that one has no idea what life can be like until you live it differently, and I personally could not believe the claims of friends who emigrated long before I did how wonderful life was in Australia.

I just did not have a point of reference for what it could be like.

Living here myself I can vouch for it!!

[SuzyQ2]

I guess the old saying "different strokes for different folks" is the key clause here. If people simply cannot adapt to life in Oz for whatever reason & go back to SA, it's their choice & should not be slated.

It's just such a pity that there are so many people back in SA that would do whatever they could to come & live here, but just do not meet the emigration criteria.

[AAAZR]

If I am wrong and the wheels do come off here, I will have plenty of time to eat my hat, on a comfortable flight to oz.

By the time the wheels come off (which I think has already started..) you won't be able to get in to Oz because you would have waited too long. The immigration requirements are becoming stricter and more difficult by the day. Ask anybody on this forum,emigration doesn't happen in a month's time,its a difficult and lengthy process. How much time and resources do you think you'll have once the wheels are off to prepare and lodge and get a visa approved before you're stuck in a "wheels-off country"?

I see that this was your first post and I'm just curious to know what stage of the process you're in and if you know what visa you want to apply for..

The forum members are always very friendly and helpful so make use of this if you're serious about emigrating..

A

[AAAZR]

I am curious Robby, have you ever lived in Australia and if so what made you leave and if not then what is your real interest in this forum?

I do agree that we all can make whatever choices we wish to make in life and live where we want to

RobbyP actually has PR visa and moving to Aus in March 2011 if I'm not mistaken..

A

Robby P wrote : December 23 2010 08:17 PM

"I am making a move to Australia (as a Permanent Resident) in March next year and I’m SO SO SO excited about the adventure which awaits me! I don’t like to using the term ‘immigrating’ as I am treating this adventure as a ‘working holiday’, as was the case when I went to London to work for 2 years."

Edited December 25, 2010 by AAAZR

[rozellem]

I have to advise some of the newly acquired visa holders and others still in the process, who are not here in Aus yet. Having successfully gained your visa does not mean you will make it in Australia or like Australia, or have Australia like you. If you come over with your normal RSA attitude, you will not succeed or be appreciated here. You do not know this while in RSA but life there requires you to have a very pushy attitude, completely necessary for life there. If you dont adjust your tone and manner you will find life here very difficult. If you turn up at work in Australia telling the people in your office what you have achieved in life, about your acquisitions and what you have parked in your garage, you will find yourself very alone. Surely you want to be known as Dave, not Dave the South African. Everybody wants to be liked, included in office life, neighbourhood life, etc. You dont want people to walk away when they see you approaching. Otherwise you will always move on the fringes of society and the next thing we will hear is that you cant assimilate, Australians are not friendly, you hate the country, Aus is cr@p, you want to go back and end up slagging Aus back in RSA. And only because Australians find you so abrasive that they avoid you. I dont mean you have to be someone you are not, just tone it down a bit. Listen, dont tell. See how they do things, you might find that there is merit in a different way. After all they run their country like a tight ship and things work. Seriously, I sometimes read posts on here that make me think "sak Sarel sak" or eish dude, you will really struggle here. Like others have said before, leave your ego at the airport.

My family have been pretty "lucky" not really being victims of serious crime, but then we have established on this forum many times that in RSA our idea of serious crime is a bit warped. I have also, in our two years in Aus, never heard a fellow South African bad mouth their birth country. I think it is like anything in life, certain types of people stick together, and I avoid negative, dramatic, whiney, wet blanket types. They just shorten my life. We invite people to our house and we get invited back, irrelevant of where they were born. Once in a while someone will come and ask me a question about South Africa and I give them my opinion, saying that it is MY opinion and that there is about 50 million opinions. And so far my live and let live attitude has blessed me beyond belief. Peace.

[AAAZR]

I have to advise some of the newly acquired visa holders and others still in the process, who are not here in Aus yet. Having successfully gained your visa does not mean you will make it in Australia or like Australia, or have Australia like you. If you come over with your normal RSA attitude, you will not succeed or be appreciated here. You do not know this while in RSA but life there requires you to have a very pushy attitude, completely necessary for life there. If you dont adjust your tone and manner you will find life here very difficult. If you turn up at work in Australia telling the people in your office what you have achieved in life, about your acquisitions and what you have parked in your garage, you will find yourself very alone. Surely you want to be known as Dave, not Dave the South African. Everybody wants to be liked, included in office life, neighbourhood life, etc. You dont want people to walk away when they see you approaching. Otherwise you will always move on the fringes of society and the next thing we will hear is that you cant assimilate, Australians are not friendly, you hate the country, Aus is cr@p, you want to go back and end up slagging Aus back in RSA. And only because Australians find you so abrasive that they avoid you. I dont mean you have to be someone you are not, just tone it down a bit. Listen, dont tell. See how they do things, you might find that there is merit in a different way. After all they run their country like a tight ship and things work. Seriously, I sometimes read posts on here that make me think "sak Sarel sak" or eish dude, you will really struggle here. Like others have said before, leave your ego at the airport.

My family have been pretty "lucky" not really being victims of serious crime, but then we have established on this forum many times that in RSA our idea of serious crime is a bit warped. I have also, in our two years in Aus, never heard a fellow South African bad mouth their birth country. I think it is like anything in life, certain types of people stick together, and I avoid negative, dramatic, whiney, wet blanket types. They just shorten my life. We invite people to our house and we get invited back, irrelevant of where they were born. Once in a while someone will come and ask me a question about South Africa and I give them my opinion, saying that it is MY opinion and that there is about 50 million opinions. And so far my live and let live attitude has blessed me beyond belief. Peace.

Ek het besef toe ek jou woorde lees dat ek een van daardie mense is wat gaan moet tone down,dankie vir jou post. Ek raak baie opgewonde en ooreiwerig met tye en ek dink mense kan dit as "pushy" beskou en dis actually glad nie my intensie nie. Mense wat my goed ken verstaan dit maar in `n vreemde land kan mens nie terugval op "mense wat my goed ken nie.."

Ek wil so graag Australie toe gaan en probeer myself voorberei maar dis voorbereiding vir iets wat mens glad nie sal weet hoe dit gaan werk tot mens self daar is nie En vanaand het ek besef dat ek sal moet werk maak daarvan om my persoonlikheid aan te pas om te integreer,ek wil afterall nie `n zulu by `n boeredans wees nie

Ons het net nie `n ander opsie as om voluit te probeer integreer nie want ons gaan letterlik daar aankom met niks so omdraai kans gaan daar nie wees nie. Dankie vir jou eerlike woorde,dit beteken vir my baie.

Groete

Anneke

[IamInACT]

I have to advise some of the newly acquired visa holders and others still in the process......

[Gizmo]

I have to advise some of the newly acquired visa holders and others still in the process, who are not here in Aus yet. Having successfully gained your visa does not mean you will make it in Australia or like Australia, or have Australia like you. If you come over with your normal RSA attitude, you will not succeed or be appreciated here. You do not know this while in RSA but life there requires you to have a very pushy attitude, completely necessary for life there. If you dont adjust your tone and manner you will find life here very difficult. If you turn up at work in Australia telling the people in your office what you have achieved in life, about your acquisitions and what you have parked in your garage, you will find yourself very alone. Surely you want to be known as Dave, not Dave the South African. Everybody wants to be liked, included in office life, neighbourhood life, etc. You dont want people to walk away when they see you approaching. Otherwise you will always move on the fringes of society and the next thing we will hear is that you cant assimilate, Australians are not friendly, you hate the country, Aus is cr@p, you want to go back and end up slagging Aus back in RSA. And only because Australians find you so abrasive that they avoid you. I dont mean you have to be someone you are not, just tone it down a bit. Listen, dont tell. See how they do things, you might find that there is merit in a different way. After all they run their country like a tight ship and things work. Seriously, I sometimes read posts on here that make me think "sak Sarel sak" or eish dude, you will really struggle here. Like others have said before, leave your ego at the airport.

My family have been pretty "lucky" not really being victims of serious crime, but then we have established on this forum many times that in RSA our idea of serious crime is a bit warped. I have also, in our two years in Aus, never heard a fellow South African bad mouth their birth country. I think it is like anything in life, certain types of people stick together, and I avoid negative, dramatic, whiney, wet blanket types. They just shorten my life. We invite people to our house and we get invited back, irrelevant of where they were born. Once in a while someone will come and ask me a question about South Africa and I give them my opinion, saying that it is MY opinion and that there is about 50 million opinions. And so far my live and let live attitude has blessed me beyond belief. Peace.

100% Agree!!! Until I got here, I never completely understood when old-Saffers-in-Aus continually talked about the new-Saffer-to-Aus attitude. I have never considered myself to be arrogant, know-it-all, proud or with a big ego. Sure I had seen those types of South Africans though - but I wasn't one of them. Boy was I in for a realiy check. Once you get here, you will see how completely different Aussies are to us. Completely different. I immediately saw what the old-Saffers-in-Aus were talking about, and I was horrified. You don't even realize how we actually are until you compare it to how Aussies are. It is so hard to explain without a reference - I can see many of the newbies out there thinking - "oh, I am not like that", but even if you aren't in the South African sense, you are in the Aussie sense. It is so much more subtle here. For example, you are in a team meating - somebody has an idea that you can clearly see won't work, so you say "that won't work, because xyz". Sounds completely normal right? Well, its normal for us. BUT The Aussies would all stare at you in complete shock thinking you are the most arrogant, blunt, know-it-all around!!! There is a whole new world of tact and diplomacy that needs to be negotiated when you get over here. It requires a huge amount of toning your attitude down as Rozellem says, otherwise, people will turn away from you and dislike you.

Yes, loads of people reading this will think what utter BS - but honestly, I have been around for a bit here and have seen various forumites attitudes 'before-during-after' assimilating into Aus attitudes (my own included). I cannot for the life of me remember who gave this advice on the forum a couple of years ago, but their advice was to "fit in, fix later". In other words, sit back and listen (don't talk) and figure out how things work here first before barging in and trying to change everything because you think you can make it work better. Things here work already.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Gizmo

[candivw]

100% Agree!!! Until I got here, I never completely understood when old-Saffers-in-Aus continually talked about the new-Saffer-to-Aus attitude. I have never considered myself to be arrogant, know-it-all, proud or with a big ego. Sure I had seen those types of South Africans though - but I wasn't one of them. Boy was I in for a realiy check. Once you get here, you will see how completely different Aussies are to us. Completely different. I immediately saw what the old-Saffers-in-Aus were talking about, and I was horrified. You don't even realize how we actually are until you compare it to how Aussies are. It is so hard to explain without a reference - I can see many of the newbies out there thinking - "oh, I am not like that", but even if you aren't in the South African sense, you are in the Aussie sense. It is so much more subtle here. For example, you are in a team meating - somebody has an idea that you can clearly see won't work, so you say "that won't work, because xyz". Sounds completely normal right? Well, its normal for us. BUT The Aussies would all stare at you in complete shock thinking you are the most arrogant, blunt, know-it-all around!!! There is a whole new world of tact and diplomacy that needs to be negotiated when you get over here. It requires a huge amount of toning your attitude down as Rozellem says, otherwise, people will turn away from you and dislike you.

Yes, loads of people reading this will think what utter BS - but honestly, I have been around for a bit here and have seen various forumites attitudes 'before-during-after' assimilating into Aus attitudes (my own included). I cannot for the life of me remember who gave this advice on the forum a couple of years ago, but their advice was to "fit in, fix later". In other words, sit back and listen (don't talk) and figure out how things work here first before barging in and trying to change everything because you think you can make it work better. Things here work already.

i agree 100%

[Robbie_P]

I am curious Robby, have you ever lived in Australia and if so what made you leave and if not then what is your real interest in this forum?

I do agree that we all can make whatever choices we wish to make in life and live where we want to

funtobeaussiechick, I have never lived in Australia, only been over on holiday. I mentioned my reasons for going to Australia, which include, the excitement and adventure, being able to travel and experience different cultures (would like to do a lot of traveling within Australia and surrounds i.e New Zealand, Bali), build wealth in a 1st world country, obtained citizenship for a country other than my home land (as I am South African through and through).

With this in mind my real interest in this forum, is the same as most members on this forum, is learning and meeting so many wonderful and helpful people on this forum who have helped me tremendously with questions I have about moving over.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Robbie_P

[IamInACT]

I mentioned my reasons for going to Australia, which include, the excitement and adventure, being able to travel and experience different cultures (would like to do a lot of traveling within Australia and surrounds i.e New Zealand, Bali), build wealth in a 1st world country, obtained citizenship for a country other than my home land (as I am South African through and through).

that's what I told everyone ... but when you arrive and start living you realize that deep down you know SA is going down the toilet and you wanna get out .....

[Robbie_P]

I think in my circumstances, I have other reasons reasons for moving, besides the usual reasons other people move for, but with all the reasons and am still SUPER EXCITED! Only 11 weeks to go and I'm already at that stage where I'm counting down the days due to my excitement

[IamInACT]

I think in my circumstances, I have other reasons reasons for moving, besides the usual reasons other people move for, but with all the reasons and am still SUPER EXCITED! Only 11 weeks to go and I'm already at that stage where I'm counting down the days due to my excitement

AWESOME ...enjoy the ride

[Gizmo]

I think in my circumstances, I have other reasons reasons for moving, besides the usual reasons other people move for, but with all the reasons and am still SUPER EXCITED! Only 11 weeks to go and I'm already at that stage where I'm counting down the days due to my excitement

Hope its everything you wished for and more!