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Best of Both Worlds


Black Label

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Best of Both Worlds.

I've been fortunate.

I've been blessed.

I had the opportunity to live in both worlds for the past 28 months.

We live in Queensland, Airlie Beach to be precise, for the past 28 months I’ve been commuting between SA an Australia, one month in Australia one month in SA.

Initially it was the ideal solution, my wife and children safe and secure while I carried on running my company in South Africa, the months in Australia we spent traveling, going to different places and seeing new places.

My children just love Australia, made plenty of friends, and excelled in sports and academics, however being away from home so often and for such long periods is not good for any family.

I had to think long and hard, and this was probably the hardest decision yet, but on the 14th of June 2009, 3 days ago I’ve made the decision that we will be moving back to South Africa, bought some property in the Western Cape, and soon will be commuting between Cape Town and JHB.

The following is what influenced my decision, please people this is my personal opinion, based on my current living and working experience.

1. Starting a business in Australia is not easy, and by that I don't mean a coffee shop or take-away, the way Australians say it describes it best "Made by Australians for Australians" 90% of Australian people will support their own people before supporting a foreigner - at least the Auzies stick together and i admire them for that.

2. Business culture is totally different " South Africans are street wise, and have business savvy, Australians are very rigid and is as flexible as a tree trunk. (Business culture are two worlds apart)

3. Australia is a beautiful country, with islands forests and mountains, South Africa even more beautiful and what i miss the most are the variety of animals.

4. In Australia, South Africans are willing to do jobs, they will never do in South Africa, in Australia South African adults are willing to work as maids cleaning houses, work at McDonalds, be points men on road construction sites, woman working as truck drivers - in South Africa peolpe think they are to good for that, and worry what their friends and family will say.

5. In South Africa you will rather pay someone R2000 a month to clean your house and R1000 to mow your lawn, but in Australia funny enough the whole family pitch in to do what you paid R3000 a month for in South Africa.

6. In South Africa we are quick to blow the horn an swear when the service is not quick enough at the Gas station, but in Australia we get out of the car, fill up with fuel , clean the window and walk in to pay at the quick shop that is manned by a single person.

7. In South Africa people want to send their kids to the best schools in the best neighborhoods, in Australia, some South Africans are willing to send their kids to whatever school is closest, schools where body piercing and tattoos are the norm and discipline non existing - the only alternative expensive private schools.

8. In Australia ,South Africans will live in a small prefab 3 bedroom house, and drive a Toyota yaris, or something similar, in South Africa ,its all about where you live and what you drive (again keeping up with the Jones)

9. Compare the way some South Africans you know are willing to go to church or to the mall in Australia, to the way people dress up for the same occasion in South Africa. (South African peolpe in general are well groomed people and look after them selves, but 1 ,2 or 3 years in Australia and they start to accept the norm.

I am not negative towards Australia, Australia is a great place to live, Australia and in particular South Africans in Australia have been an eye opener for me during the past 28 months - Some are really quick to bash South Africa and point out all the bad - but in my opinion South Africa is not as bad, compared to 95% of the places on earth where you could go and live.

People are so quick to complain in South Africa, but if you watch current affair and see what is going on in Australia, e.g. glassing in night clubs, serious assaults on Australian police officers, drug and alcohol abuse under teens, drive by shootings, gangs and street fighting etc........

And yes i know about the serious assaults and pointless murders in South Africa !!

Life is what you make of it, not where you make it.

Family and religeon is what is most important, and if God can save you in Australia,London or Peru he can and will keep you safe in South Africa - It's been an expensive lesson but one i am grateful for - i will always look back at Australia and be thankfull for the experience.

South Africa does have its problems, but peolpe need to compare apples with apples - There are propably 300 or more countries around the world you will be worse of living in than either South Africa or Australia.

I hope I did not offend to many people, as I said this is just my personal opinion - therfore i urge you to read the entire post again before throwing stones.

Edited by Black Label
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Hi Bluebonnet

The only reason we have people to fill our cars etc up for is to create jobs!

I believe that if the employment rate here in SA wasn't so high we would be on the same system as the

rest of the world.

I completely agree with your second point - my children might / might not have a future in 10 years time when they ready

to seek employment but i can't take the risk. They are the world to us.

Our decision to migrate to AU came up after my family (incl. my 6 and 9 year old at the time) were held up at a school.

We had guns put to our heads!!! That was the final straw for us.

To see my girls fear and terror in there face, in those circumstances is heart breaking . . . i will not risk it again!

Sorry SA but you have let me down . . . Here's to one day living with peace and safety, no matter how hard its going to be.

NOW THAT IS A RISK I AM WILLING TAKE!

You are making the right decision, and you are a wonderful parent. My sister was robbed just two weeks ago in her home in Johannesburg, also at gunpoint. She has an eight year old son, and will not leave, it is too much work to emigrate I guess.

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Good luck Black Label. Enjoy the western Cape - it's a wonderful place to live! I find it very hard to leave myself. :D I'm happy for you that you've made your decision. All the best. x netta

I know of quiet a few people who moved to the western Cape, and they all say it is a wonderful place to live. Hardly any crime and very beautiful. (no alarm systems, sleep with open windows, do not even lock the doors,,,ect. ect. You also say it is a wonderful place to live, and that you find it very hard to leave, so why are you leaving then?

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I know of quiet a few people who moved to the western Cape, and they all say it is a wonderful place to live. Hardly any crime and very beautiful. (no alarm systems, sleep with open windows, do not even lock the doors,,,ect. ect. You also say it is a wonderful place to live, and that you find it very hard to leave, so why are you leaving then?

I would say that it's stretching the truth to say there's no crime in the Cape. What I can say is that *most* of the crime is in the very poor areas. So, compared to say JHB, your risk in the Cape (if you are a middle class or higher person) is reasonable by SA standards. But, by most western countries standards (including Oz) it will still be considered a little dangerous I think. The "no burglar bars and unlocked doors" is more in the country areas far from Cape Town.

If you are going to live and work close to Cape Town, you will need home security and need to keep your eyes open. But I do think that for any middle class or higher person, the western Cape offers the best that SA can offer. There is even a slow movement taking root in the Cape to push for a referendum for Cape independence from SA. What that does highlight is that culturally, racially and language wise the Cape is distinct from the rest of SA. Even economically it is strong - 70% of all taxes collected in the Cape is spent elsewhere in SA. That's the battle-cry of those calling for independence: an independent West Cape would have 70% more tax money to invest in fighting crime, addressing poverty, improving education and healthcare, and boosting the economy through job creation. Everyone - from the poorest to the richest, would benefit. :)

Ok, I would get off of my soap box now. :whome:

While independence is a long debate, I have heard that there's a growing migration of professionals within SA to Cape Town. The recent defeat of the ANC by the DA could speed up that trend. I think the people who refuse to leave SA see the Cape as a safer alternative to most other parts of SA

While we all accept that the Stomers can't win the Super 14, one can't expect to have it all. :blink:

Once again, I wish the original poster every success back in the Cape.

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The Cape independent from SA? Sounds good, but will never happen. Some people have their dreams, and it is good to dream. I dream a lot, it gives strength. I often meet people from SA here in Switzerland, or Germany, and I like to listen to their opinions on the country they left. I came to realize that after they have been away for a while, they tend to forget why they left in the first place. They then only see the negative of the place they live in now, and do not want to hear anything negative of SA, and go on and on what a wonderful beautiful place SA is. I understand them, and feel sorry. It happens all the time.

As for me, I KNOW why I do not live in SA, and I will NEVER forget. I will go visit, and that only once every 5-10 years or so, and then be happy to leave again.

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For those who misunderstood me.

I did not complain for one second about having to fill up my own car, nor did I complain about the schools, and the house work or doing business in Australia.

Living in Australia actually taught me allot, and what I took for granted in SA.

The point I was trying to make is, although we are probably living in one of the most beautiful places on earth, (Airlie Beach) in a civilized country, with discipline and structure, I have a longing I can not explain, cause why would someone living in a place of safety surrounded by Islands and ocean, green mountains and peace want to leave this place.

Why would I want to trade ?

Renewing my vehicle license in 10 minutes.

Go shopping without 5 people wanting to look after my car.

Banking without making it a camping trip.

Shopping assistants without attitude.

Schools without politics.

Traffic cops without motives.

Actual Police response.

Since we moved here, I knew something was missing, I always had this empty spot and no matter what I did, nothing seemed to fill it, I thought the feeling might pass in time – I am afraid not !!!

Something of Africa was born into me at birth, and that same thing will die with me.

Went to see a doctor on my last trip to SA, he informed me that he could do an operation and remove the cause of my turmoil but at the same time it would prove to be fatal, since it will be my heart that needs to be removed.

I have a longing, a heart ache if you may for, Rugby at Loftus, Braai vleis en boere musiek, grandma playing with the kids, fishing at St’ Lucia, Kyknet on MNET, game drives at Pilaansberg, Hunting in Messina, Friday lunch at the Dross, pancakes at Dullstroom, Oysters in Knysna, touchies at Stilbaai, Arts and Crafts at Hartebeespoort, watching my son play rugby on a Saturday morning not feeling like an outsider.

Australia is a great place, and sometimes I think it might have been much easier if I never had the opportunity to experience it.

Edited by Black Label
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Well, good luck. Hope that one day you aren't the grandparent that gets left behind when your kids leave SA.

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That makes two of us!

Australia is a special place and one of the most priviledge nations in the world.

I have enjoyed all of what i experienced and are greatful for those opportunities.

I personally do not have one bad experience to mention.

Australian employers have treated me with kindness that i have never experience in 20 years in SA.

In South Africa we experienced our share of crime every single year - even had Zuma and his blue light brigade nearly wipe us out - twice ;)

But i have the same longing feeling as you - and going on a year and a half, the intensity stays the same.(been back twice to SA)

I lived in the bush every weekend - duck and dived hippo's and croc's at night to be able to fish the surf at Mapelane while standing waist deep in the river mouth and hooking Zambezi sharks on every cast.

Had Giraffes follow me curiosly along the bank while fishing for bass of a small boat in a huge dam with many crocodiles.

Had travelled South Africa from Springbok (Gamsberg in the crater, Pofadder,Keimoes,Kakemas wines :) ) to the Mozambique/Swaziland borders and from standing in the dry Limpopo river bed on the Zim border, close to Messina, down to Cape Town and feet in the ice cold atlantic.

Seen parts of nature that many people will never experience in a life time.

Nothing can make up for watching a Leopard tackeling a baboon on full speed - rolling around that there is so much dust one can hardly see them, watch Elephants stroll down a hill and pass 10 meters away from you with the puppies walking side by side with their mom's or looking at the huge horns of old Kudu bull while he contemplates his next step.

My wife and kids are happy in Oz and my wife only started sleeping through the nights since being here.

They do not want to go back and i will respect that, make the best of what life has to offer here.

Crime in SA is totally abnormal and out of control, so personally i can not ask my family to go back or expect them to do so.

But that longing feeling for being alone in the bush, experiencing warm quiet african nights, watching the sun rise with only the sound of the waves breaking on to the beach or listening to the early birds that starts chirpping in the bush, telling you that the first rays of the sun are about to come through, will never go away.

I feel your pain and understand your phrase "Australia is a great place, and sometimes I think it might have been much easier if I never had the opportunity to experience it" all to well.

But such is life.

All the best and i hope that the next chapter of your life in SA will be what you hope it to be.

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As I said before, Black Label, it is your life, and even if people may not understand or agree with your logic, it is your decision! I think hearing a 'different' view on the forum is valuable, so thank you for sharing your experiences with us!

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Wonderful post Black Label, somewhat sad also. Well, for many years I felt the same. Many will say once Africa is in your blood, it is there forever. I was born in Africa..Zambia, where I spend my first 9 years of life in the bush. sounds odd, but yes the bush, guess my parents loved it there, and so did I. My pets included monkeys, and slept on my bed :ilikeit: There is something about Africa, one cannot help to grow fond of the place. My parents then moved to SA, we lived in the Cape (Plettenburgbay) for a couple of years, and then on a farm near Benoni. I also lived in Pretoria, and then back to Cape Town for a couple of years. I lived on the North Coast of KZN and then Namibia for 3 plus years. In 1991 I left SA, actually before that, but always had this ache in my heart, the one you all know, it feels terrible.. I always wanted to go live there again. That changed, for so many reasons. I have to admit it took time, but Africa is totally out of my system now. One forgets, it just takes time, for some it takes many years.

No matter how beautiful the country, the wildlife, the bush, ect., it is the future that troubles me, and the many problems in that country,,which we all know, the list is looooooooooooooong. I have lived in many countries, and have visited many places,,the most beautiful up till now,,Queensland, the whole great barrier reef area, and yes, it IS more beautiful than Switzerland where I live now. So it is very difficult for me to understand how anybody can leave that place. But as they say, once Africa is in your blood. :) not in mine anymore.

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Black label, living in south africa, I feel Africa will also always be in our Blood, I know we will miss the roar of the Lion, the gracefulness of the giraffe and the peace of the elephant in the bush!! :blush:

I know that my kids will not know what it is like to be African as such , but I know all to well that I am doing the right thing when I am reminded on a daily basis the threats that my family face, the fact that the education system is below par and the fact that the health system is in turmoil. :)

It is a sad but necessary thing to take my family and flee this beautiful place. :cry:

I know that we will miss AFRICA but we will find a new love for the Kangaroo, and the koala. And hopefully oneday we can visit for a holiday and show our kids Africa and the bush.

Good luck with your future, I wish you all the best in your ventures. :ilikeit:

Joanne

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You have the guts to say what many of us are feeling!

I know the feeling, and you're right it's wonderful here in Oz, but there is an emptiness that only South AFrican can fill.

Wishing you all the best and hope that you will be able to fill that emptiness. Dont look back, just look forward!

:ilikeit:

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Black Label - I really hope that the turmoil you are living with leaves you when you get back "home". I understand your feelings of emptyness.

All the very best on that beautiful horse property - can just picture it - Im so jealous - take care,

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Black Label - all the best for your move back to SA.

Am living in Newlands and must say I will miss the mountain quite a lot...am taking tons of pictures of it to take with! :)

I know of quiet a few people who moved to the western Cape, and they all say it is a wonderful place to live. Hardly any crime and very beautiful. (no alarm systems, sleep with open windows, do not even lock the doors,,,ect. ect.

I would love to find out where these places are, because they're no where near Cape Town.

My mom has a house on a remote farm community in the Overberg and ever there people have alarms these days.

But I agree that the Western Cape is a beautiful part of South Africa, even now when it's cold, rainy and gray outside. :)

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Black Label - I really hope that the turmoil you are living with leaves you when you get back "home". I understand your feelings of emptyness.

All the very best on that beautiful horse property - can just picture it - Im so jealous - take care,

Thank you Lyn

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Black Label - all the best for your move back to SA.

Am living in Newlands and must say I will miss the mountain quite a lot...am taking tons of pictures of it to take with! :ilikeit:

I would love to find out where these places are, because they're no where near Cape Town.

My mom has a house on a remote farm community in the Overberg and ever there people have alarms these days.

But I agree that the Western Cape is a beautiful part of South Africa, even now when it's cold, rainy and gray outside. :hug:

I just listen, and do not say much. I cannot tell them that I don't believe them. To me there is no safe place in SA. I will watch my back all the time while visiting in December. It will be stressful, but I have to go see my family. My biggest fear- to be followed from the airport to my sister's home. :ilikeit:

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Good luck Black Label!! I think it is quite brave to open up and give your reasons for moving back on a forum where the majority of us are going in the opposite direction for various reasons.

I wish you all the best with your adventure/life in the W Cape!!

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Thanks for sharing your experience with us - however, I am seeing a big trend of Joburgers moving to the Cape thinking that they are leaving the crime behind.

Please don't fool yourselves !

It is well and truly in the Cape and getting worse everyday at a staggering rate.... I just want you to have your eyes wide open and sure that you are doing the very best thing for your family.

I think you're mad - but then I would as I am gagging to get to Oz . I want to leave but I also feel a huge PULL to Oz.

Wishing you all the best.

Stay Safe !

Kate

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Thanks for sharing your experience with us - however, I am seeing a big trend of Joburgers moving to the Cape thinking that they are leaving the crime behind.

Please don't fool yourselves !

It is well and truly in the Cape and getting worse everyday at a staggering rate.... I just want you to have your eyes wide open and sure that you are doing the very best thing for your family.

I think you're mad - but then I would as I am gagging to get to Oz . I want to leave but I also feel a huge PULL to Oz.

Wishing you all the best.

Stay Safe !

Kate

Thanks for being honest. You live there, and you know.

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Although there are some(most) excellent people on this forum, and I believe this forum is a great support structure for any person contemplating immigration or even if it is just for some general advice. :lol:

I could not help to notice that there are also some (not all) people on this forum whom has nothing good to say about South Africa, in fact I think there are some people on this forum who would like to see South Africa fail just to justify and ease their conscious for why they immigrated - not that justification is required as after all it is a personal decision, based on your own circumstances and beliefs.

There is nothing wrong if you decided to immigrate, but don't betray your land of heritage and the people of South Africa.

How harsh this may sound I truly believe there are some people on this forum surfing News24.com on a daily basis looking for the most negative news and brutal murders in South Africa just to say to themselves " That’s why I left SA" - if the shoe fits wear it !!

We are in the fortunate position to make our own decision as to where we want to live, but there are many people in SA who are not in the same position, there are people in SA who want to leave but cant and people in Oz that want to go back but cant. - All i ask is for people to be more sensitive as to what they say about SA.

Ps: Note Some in the above - this is not a generalization of all people on saaustralia.

Food for thought:

There are no guarantees as to what life will bring, but the certainty of life is that God is involved in the lives of those who trust Him. No one by even righteous deeds can gain control over God and coerce blessing from Him. One must acknowledge that all is in God’s hands.

In 9:1 Solomon writes, “For I have taken all this to my heart and explain it that righteous men, wise men, and their deeds are in the hand of God. Man does not know whether it will be love or hatred; anything awaits him.â€

Psalm 102:28 "The children of your servants shall live secure; their offspring shall be established in your presence.

:whome:

Edited by Black Label
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... in fact I think there are people on this forum who would like to see South Africa fail just to justify and ease their conscious for why they immigrated ...

How harsh this my sound I truly believe there are people on this forum surfing News24.com on a daily basis looking for the most negative news and brutal murders in South Africa just to say to themselves " That’s why I left SA"

What you say might cause a heated debate, but I actually tend to agree with you! In fact, I have been guilty of looking for negative SA news in the past. It's natural to doubt or second-guess why you left SA and went through all the pain of moving. Bad news from SA does supply some justification.

I've stopped looking for the negatives and truly hope and pray SA does better & better. I can now say, with 100% honesty, that I want SA to prove me wrong. And I will be the first to admit that every coin has two sides, so SA does have many positives: from the climate, to the culture, food & high standard of living for professionals. But for some, the negatives are unacceptable.

In closing, I've also pondered on the Christian view: if you believe that God is in control and that you are protected and blessed then, with faith, the crime should be less of an issue. But, I left SA several years ago, so I obviously don't practice what I preach. :lol:

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Black label I really wish for you to be happy, healthy and safe. I do agree with you about people looking on news24 or whatever. We stopped doing that last year but guess what the reports we get on crime are from people we know and not from the newspapers so you go figure. Just as we try justify coming to Oz you will justify why you are going back. It is a natural process as we are all human and all suffer from the same madness of moving continents. Yes it is madness but at the same time imagine if you never tried it you would be itching to come over to OZ not so? So we are a funny species I know and yes Oz is strange and no wildlife bad schools yada yada have to justify why we are going back to SA. We are all the same at the end of the day. Guess it is just how things pan out for you on your own personal level. Some people in SA get robbed virtually blind and God forbid suffer the worst having a family member die others are happy as larry and have not had one crime incident ever and are well off and will never think of leaving as their lives are perfect. Same goes for some of us in Oz. We have landed with our bum in the butter and feel that we are truly blessed to be here.

Although there are some excellent people on this forum, and I believe this forum is a great support structure for any person contemplating immigration or even if it is just for some general advice. :lol:

I could not help to notice that there are also people on this forum whom has nothing good to say about South Africa, in fact I think there are people on this forum who would like to see South Africa fail just to justify and ease their conscious for why they immigrated - there is nothing wrong with it, if you decided to immigrate, but don't betray your land of heritage and the people of your nation.

How harsh this my sound I truly believe there are people on this forum surfing News24.com on a daily basis looking for the most negative news and brutal murders in South Africa just to say to themselves " That’s why I left SA" - if the shoe fits wear it !!

We are in the fortunate position to make our own decision as to where we want to live, but there are many people in SA who are not in the same position.

Food for thought:

There are no guarantees as to what life will bring, but the certainty of life is that God is involved in the lives of those who trust Him. No one by even righteous deeds can gain control over God and coerce blessing from Him. One must acknowledge that all is in God’s hands.

In 9:1 Solomon writes, “For I have taken all this to my heart and explain it that righteous men, wise men, and their deeds are in the hand of God. Man does not know whether it will be love or hatred; anything awaits him.â€

Psalm 102:28 "The children of your servants shall live secure; their offspring shall be established in your presence.

:whome:

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Hi Jules

Jules thank you for your honesty, your reply meant allot to me - and especially what you had to say.

People will come and people will go, immigration is nothing new, but you said it best with "every coin has two sides"

Edited by Black Label
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Although there are some excellent people on this forum, ............ :lol:

I could not help to notice that there are also people on this forum whom has nothing good to say about South Africa, in fact I think there are people on this forum who would like to see South Africa fail just to justify and ease their conscious for why they immigrated - there is nothing wrong with it, if you decided to immigrate, but don't betray your land of heritage and the people of your nation.

.........................

anything awaits him.â€

Hey Bl

As a christen (assumed from your quotes), Why do you 'judge' or accuse the people on this forum ? (a defence to justify your return ...?)

The guys here are entitled to say, feel, believe and think what they like, obviously within the norms of decency, honesty, mutual respect and fact.

For example - Obviously it is a FACT that living is Oz is safer, as the probability of been murdered, raped, robbed, mugged, etc... is much lower. Would you suggest that 'we' lie about these and other facts, just so 'we' don't "betray your land of heritage......" ????

I have seen many posts where the guys wish SA and the people there all the best, and express there sincere hope that SA will thrive - obviously you missed these.

On the other hand, I have not yet seen any posts where anyone has expressed their wish to see SA fail - as you imply.

Maybe you should stick to the facts ....! and comply with the norms of decency, honesty, mutual respect and facts !

By the way, we were transferred by our company to work in the Oz office, purely a business move, so unlike you, we have nuthing to justify !

gOOd LucK with your move - hope every thing works out for you >>

Edited by patrice
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I have a mom, father in law, grandmother, aunts, uncles, cousins and heaps of friends still in South Africa.

Most of them are 100% committed to staying and embracing South Africa.

I have a brother, brother in law, two sisters in law, a nephew, a neice, extended family and friends in the UK.

Most of them are 100% committed to staying and embracing the UK for many years to come.

I have extended family and a bunch of friends here in Oz.

Most of them too are 100% committed to staying in Australia.

I am sure some in RSA will head off to the UK, and some from the UK will go back to RSA... likewise the same for Oz.

The point is, wherever those people choose to stay is their choice. It is not for me to judge... I do not walk in their shoes.

I love Australia... But, not because I look at all the bad in South Africa.

I don't need to.... and I don't want to.

South Africa was my first home, and Australia will be my second. They both have a special place in my heart.

Life changes, circumstances change...

All the best Black Label with your move... may you travel safe.

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