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simplymark

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Hi all,

Simply Mark's wife / partner / better half, thanks for your post. I am a social worker by training, still in SA and i found your post very informative and though provoking. I am always so torn about the concept of social assistance. I do believe that it destroys the initiative for people to work and does create dependancy but i do believe that it has a place in any first world / developed country. We have to protect the vulnerable in our society - namely children, elderly, disabled etc and we use the grant system to do so. Does it get abused? Absolutely! The difficulty is that if you dont have it, you as a social worker face a situation wher you need to remove a child from a parent just because of finances and that is a difficult situation. I really dont have an answer for this. In SA the grants are scarcely liveable and i struggle to understand how someone would have a child just for the couple of hundred rand that is the child support grant.

I still think that there is more work to be done on behalf of human services around monitoring of spending, home visits, skills development etc. For me, people on these social assistance programmes need to be placed on a contract where clear expectations from the state are indicated and that they are held to.

On a lighter note, you brought back so many memories of my early years of child care, driving the government car around Springs, Brakpan and the attached townships! I had to duck from angry parents a couple of times when removing kids. Locked myself in the bathroom in a filthy house, calling the cops on my cell phone while i had the mad (abusive! )dad threatening to kill me. Similiar experience with a herion addict. These things really happen everywhere! Seems funny to laugh about them now, but they were experiences.

Al

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Dit is nie vir my lekker om hierdie sleg witmense te sien nie. Hulle is sommer goed sleg. Lui, onversorgd, leef op welsyn, maar makeer eintlik niks. Die Australianers noem hulle "ferrets". Ek sal definitief nie met hulle wil werk nie. Ongelukkig, in Oz, is hulle in jou gesig. Baie van hulle maak my sommer bang, want jy kan sien hulle is "mental" of besig met onttrekkingssimptome of iets. Aan die begin het ek my verkyk aan hulle, maar nou is hulle nie meer iets vreemd nie. "All part of the human condition". Hier word hulle verdra. Ek het ook geleer om hulle te verdra. Ek meng nie met hulle nie en ek voel niks vir in besonders vir hulle nie. Snaaks genoeg, hulle los 'n mens uit behalwe vir die hoons wat almal se lewens in gevaar stel. Die polisie is op 'n "first-name basis" met hulle. Dit is 'n siklus van probleme wat homself herhaal in elke generasie wat in daardie omstandighede grootword. Net enkele kinders sal dit ontsnap. Dit is 'n ding wat sy kop uitsteek in elke eerste wereld land. En dit is 'n toets vir elke eerste-wereld land. Hoe gaan die probleem opgelos word?

Ek breek nie my kop daaroor nie. Daar is genoeg geleerde mense wat reeds besig is daarmee. Ek is meer "disgusted" in party Suid-Afrikaners in Oz en hulle ongelooflike arrogansie. Hulle kom woon en werk in hierdie land maar hulle het geen respek vir sy wette of sy mense nie. Hulle dink wragtig hulle is "beter".

Ek het die Ozzies nou al so bekyk. Hulle is oor die algemeen rustig. "No worries mate". Stel nie vreeslik belang in die wereld daar buite nie, maar terselfdertyd sal hulle na jou luister met 'n totale oop gemoed sonder oordeel of vooropstellings. Hulle stel belang in hoe jy is, nie in wat jy doen of wat jy is nie. Hulle is intelligent en oopkop. En hulle kla nie. Hulle staan saam en hulle weet wat is reg of verkeerd. Ek het opnuut respek vir hierdie mense. Hulle mag miskien verdraagsaam wees teenoor die suurstofdiewe van die samelewing, maar net tot op 'n punt.

Goedkoop arbeid het die witman in Suid-Afrika sleg gemaak. 'n Ander tipe van sleg.

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Hardships that South Africans go through? Like the maid, and the tuinboy? There are other "hardships" that these Aussies are used to, that make us look like sissies.

I think South Africans are just arrogant, always thinking they work harder. Most of us haven't worked for a day, because we had cheap labour to abuse.

Think about that one mate...

It is true what you say Biltongboer. I can't dispute that. But after you've lived here for a few years and come to your senses as a human being, there are many beautiful assets we as South Africans bring to this country. We shouldn't be so hard on ourselves because we lived under governments who made us put on blinkers and all sorts of other coping mechanisms just to survive. We can forgive ourselves for our misbelieves and feel proud of our virtues. It may take a few years of living in Oz to see them but they are there if you look careful.

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If SA were the land of milk and honey and everyone lived their lives free from any kind of hardship over here, surely nobody would have emigrated / be emigrating? I suppose it's how you define "hardship" that makes the difference.

Personally, I think not having a voice in the land of your birth, not being able to find a job due to BEE or AA policies, not being able to have a good night's sleep for fear of being attacked in your own (burglar proofed) home, always having to watch over your shoulder, having been / knowing someone who has been victims of (often violent) crimes, having to cope with the absolute incompetence of the government, provincial- and local authorities resulting in the deterioration and inevitable breakdown of our infrastructures, not even mentioning the financial and emotional burden all of this places on us, should make it into that definition.

I would happily give up my maid and my gardener if the opposite of the above were a reality. Until then, I'm helping them to keep a roof over their heads, food in their stomachs and clothes on their backs.

Apologies for hi-jacking the thread even further ... but hey, this is SA so I guess we should be used to that too :ilikeit:

Edited by Rissiepit
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Hardships that South Africans go through? Like the maid, and the tuinboy? There are other "hardships" that these Aussies are used to, that make us look like sissies.

I think South Africans are just arrogant, always thinking they work harder. Most of us haven't worked for a day, because we had cheap labour to abuse.

Think about that one mate...

Exactly, Biltongboer. I have said it over and over again. I lived long enough in the US (Texas), Europe and SA, it is not just the "hardships" of the Aussies that make the South Africans look like sissies. I will not start on the maid and tuinboy thing again.

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Rissiepit, I am with you 100%!

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If SA were the land of milk and honey and everyone lived their lives free from any kind of hardship over here, surely nobody would have emigrated / be emigrating? I suppose it's how you define "hardship" that makes the difference.

Yes, we all experience/d hardships - that's why we're moving, or have moved. What I am saying is that we are not necesarily more hardworking or honest or morally superior than any Aussie you'd meet. It is, once again, a matter of generalisation. I know lazy Saffers, and lazy Aussies, and hardworking ones on both sides.

The point is, you're not necesarily a good, hardworking honest bloke just because you had it bad in Africa. It's all relative.

These lazy dope-smoking, useless buggers in Aus are not representative of the general population. You get them in every country.

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Perhaps I'm having a blonde moment, but I don't know how a discussion concerning "hardships" digressed into one about hard work / laziness / morals / arrogance - but here goes. Sure there are people who take advantage of their situations by, for instance, living on the dole by choice, as Bob had stated, which is morally reprehensible. But I don't think these self-inflicted circumstances qualify as genuine "hardships".

As a matter of genuine interest: what are the hardships that the Aussies experience that make us look like sissies? A comparison between the average South African and the average Australian would be interesting.

Without coming across as being morally superior, what I find extremely difficult to understand is how people who live in a first world country and have all the benefits that go with that, take it for granted and abuse it. Take the kids who are totally out of control, for instance, and their parents who are either completely oblivious or just couldn't care less. Are they bored with their "safe, happy, structured" lives and have nothing better to do or what? Send them to South Africa (or to any of the other countries mentioned here: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1...the.html?cat=16 ) for a reality check, I say.

And as a final thought: I've heard and read on numerous occasions that people in Australia think the South Africans in Aus are arrogant. While admitting that you do get arrogant people everywhere, I can't help but wonder whether some of us being a tad quiet and reserved on the one hand, or loud and overbearing on the other, are not being construed as arrogance.

These behavioural patterns are quite normal for people in unfamiliar surroundings. Having to settle into totally new surroundings and circumstances while very often simultaneously feeling slighted, hurt, rejected and (almost) forced into having packed up their lives and move to another country in order to live a safer life, and in the process leaving everyone and everything you love and know behind, is an extremely difficult thing to do - we all agree on that. People have different ways in dealing with this and need time to process it.

I'm sure many South Africans in Aus, without generalising, are good, kind, generous, hard working people and in many instances, are being misunderstood as being arrogant. They're hurt, they're mad as hell, they miss their family and friends, they've had to make so many sacrifices in order to live "normal" lives ... so give them a break.

Most of them just need a little time to get over the shock of being uprooted, to settle into their new lives, accept and be grateful for it - those things do not happen over night. Once they feel that they actually belong where they are, I'm sure it won't be long before their true colours start showing. I think most of the Aussies who know South Africans that have been in Aus for a few years now, will agree.

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Rissiepit, so true, so true. Thank you for a balanced view. I totally agree with this way of thinking. Good relationships between total strangers would be fake if it doesn't develop over time. Everybody is a bit akward at the beginning.

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Yes, we all experience/d hardships - that's why we're moving, or have moved. What I am saying is that we are not necesarily more hardworking or honest or morally superior than any Aussie you'd meet. It is, once again, a matter of generalisation. I know lazy Saffers, and lazy Aussies, and hardworking ones on both sides.

The point is, you're not necesarily a good, hardworking honest bloke just because you had it bad in Africa. It's all relative.

These lazy dope-smoking, useless buggers in Aus are not representative of the general population. You get them in every country.

You get them in every country, so true. I see them at the Bahnhof (trainstation) in Zurich,,always the same group. But I actually feel sorry for them, we do not know their circumstances, and I think once they are in that mess, it is hard to get out.

But, I have never seen more hardworking people than the Swiss. As for SA hardships, I think of the Voortrekkers.

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