Permanent terug na SA!

[koosd]

Mens hoor so baie van mense wat oorkom na Oz en sukkel met die aanpassing, terugverlang en maar hier aangaan. Die laaste tyd was daar mense wat selfs besluit het Oz is nie vir hulle om watter rede ook al en terug gaan SA toe. Ek wil graag weet of daar mense is wat terug gegaan het en die tweede keer baie gelukkig en meer tevrede is met SA?

[bluebonnet]

Ja,dit klink baie in SA terme, maar haar Switserse huur, kos, water, elektrisiteit en belasting betaling aan die Switserse owerhede loop tesame CHF 4,999,so al wil sy spaar,kan sy nie.

Die teenoorgestelde is waar in ZA.

n' bediende wat dagliks haarself uit kontrakteur teen R140,00 verdien R2800,00 maandliks.

1)Haar belasting is R 0,00 want sy verdien onder die taxable threshold.

2) Haar huur is R0,00 want sy woon in n' shack.

3) Haar mediese onkostes is R0,00 want sy gaan staatskliniek en staatshospitaal toe gratis.

4) Haar elektrisiteit is R0,00 want sy tap in gratis by die substation.

5) Haar water is gratis want sy tap in gratis by die communal standpipe.

6) Haar TV is R0,00 want sy betaal nie n lisensie daarvoor.

7) Haar gemiddelde kos is die goedkoopste in die land want pap word nie belas nie.Dis net die vleis,hoender en aartappels wat haar eintlik duurder kos.

So, INDIVIDUALLY, is ons bediendes op papier heelwat beter af, en teorieties KAN hulle spaar (as hulle net 'n Skotse mentality kon koester.)

Die rede hoekom hulle nie kan spaar nie is die hoeveelheid kinders en "dependants" wat op hulle teer,en die feit dat hulle bly aan om duur taxis te ry, in plaas van om n' "initial" opoffering te maak en 'n cheap Vuka scooter te koop (soos die meerderheid Sjieniese en Indiers) .

Dit gese, bly dus jou vriendin beter in Switzerland.

So as my vriendin net op pap lewe en in n shack woon kan sy ook spaar of hoe?? Ek vind dit moeilik om te verstaan wat jy probeer se, so los ons dit maar daar. Ek glo nie enigeen kan lewe met R2,800 (minder soos USD 300) per maand nie. SA is nie goedkoop nie, en almal moet dieselfde in die winkels vir alles betaal. Speelgoed vir die kinders vir kersfees, klere, voedsel, meubels ens. ens. (o, sorry mens gebruik nie meubles as mens in n shack woon nie, mens sit mos op n drom, en slaap op die grond) En verder kry ons mos alles gratis,,water, elec, TV, medies....nee ek koop nie die storie nie, en ek glo ook nie enigeen sal my punt insien nie, so los ons dit maar.

[Legalbuff]

As difficult it might seem for some to understand, including me, it is exactly what keeps certain family members of mine from moving away from SA. What women all over the world have been doing themselves,,some in SA just do not want to do all that, they have never, and will never. I cannot imagine certain members of my family cleaning and doing yardwork, that is the way it is, I know it is disgusting. Rush home after shopping to catch the domestic before she leaves, remember she has to carry the bags inside. To me it is sad, or shall I say pathetic, and to think that is what they do not want to give up, and will rather live with crime. Now I asked myself many times,,why should I care and worry about them??

Hi Edwina,

I always used to have the same view on this. Please note - I'm not trying to get into the discussion on what domestic workers earn - that's a whole different thing altogether.

But regarding having someone help out at your house - don't be so quick to get on the moral high horse and say people are pathetic.

Some of us women out there work very long hours. If you get up at 5, you're at work from 7am to 5pm, back after travelling home at 6 - 6h30 and then have to cook dinner, help kids with homework, get the house clean and ready for the next day, pack lunches and a hundred other little things that need doing and you do it year in and year out - not so pathetic when you want/need help anymore. Oh, and in between you need to help out at school, get kids to and from daycare etc etc etc all the while providing emotional support to hubby in his job and also keeping family and friends happy by speding quality time with them, albeit sometimes on Skype. There are only so many hours in the day. (And this is with hubby helping out, so don't rule that out)

I think the "having a domestic help" topic has been discussed to death on this forum. If only we could get the moral high horse and the alleged patheticness of SA women out of the equation, maybe some good could come of it.

[funtobeaussiechick]

Hi Edwina,

I always used to have the same view on this. Please note - I'm not trying to get into the discussion on what domestic workers earn - that's a whole different thing altogether.

But regarding having someone help out at your house - don't be so quick to get on the moral high horse and say people are pathetic.

Some of us women out there work very long hours. If you get up at 5, you're at work from 7am to 5pm, back after travelling home at 6 - 6h30 and then have to cook dinner, help kids with homework, get the house clean and ready for the next day, pack lunches and a hundred other little things that need doing and you do it year in and year out - not so pathetic when you want/need help anymore. Oh, and in between you need to help out at school, get kids to and from daycare etc etc etc all the while providing emotional support to hubby in his job and also keeping family and friends happy by speding quality time with them, albeit sometimes on Skype. There are only so many hours in the day. (And this is with hubby helping out, so don't rule that out)

I think the "having a domestic help" topic has been discussed to death on this forum. If only we could get the moral high horse and the alleged patheticness of SA women out of the equation, maybe some good could come of it.

Yeah look, what is wrong with having a domestic if you can afford one? SA women including me are/were very lucky to have a domestic but I chose to only have a domestic once a week as my husband helped with dishes etc and we now do not struggle in Aus because we were used to living like that and I also got up at 5 and got home at 630, but this is not a I am better than you excercise. We just have to become mature enough to be satisfied with our lot as long as it does not include exploitation of people which I agree does occur in SA but in my opinion most domestics are treated very well and with respect and after all they are working for you so they probably gladly help with the groceries. So yes it is a bit harder in Aus but you have to understand I have traded this for safety etc.. I still love SA and think about it every day but I am afraid of all that has already happened and if you speak to Stuttafords they will say yes people do go back to SA but within 1 or 2 years tehy come back to Aus again... More are leaving SA than Aus. But if truth be told there is nothing like Africa but right now Aus is better an hope 1 day Africa will be safe enough to live without an electric fence and armed response and my kid can ride his bike to school yes? oh I can dream

[Battiss]

Battiss. This friend of a friend is propagating the urban legend- 4000 come, and 2000 go back. Rubbish

Thanks Q-girl. That's what I figured.. it just did not sound right.. but the legend is certainly alive and well!

Kirsty - she said leaving SA and then returning.. now whether all 4000 is going to JUST Aus.. nobody knows!

[stevie_za]

Ek glo nie enigeen kan lewe met R2,800 (minder soos USD 300) per maand nie. SA is nie goedkoop nie, en almal moet dieselfde in die winkels vir alles betaal. Speelgoed vir die kinders vir kersfees, klere, voedsel, meubels ens. ens. (o, sorry mens gebruik nie meubles as mens in n shack woon nie, mens sit mos op n drom, en slaap op die grond) En verder kry ons mos alles gratis,,water, elec, TV, medies....nee ek koop nie die storie nie, en ek glo ook nie enigeen sal my punt insien nie, so los ons dit maar.

Ek dink jy was lanklaas in SA, daar is baie mense wat met baie minder as R2800 n maand moet deur kom, en ja daardie shacks van hulle is soms so klein dat daar nie eers plek is vir n enkelbed matras en plek om jou klere aan te trek nie, wat nog te se van plek vir n tv.

Afrika kan op GEEN vlak met enige ander land vergeluik work nie, veral nie salarisse en lone nie.

[bluebonnet]

Hi Edwina,

I always used to have the same view on this. Please note - I'm not trying to get into the discussion on what domestic workers earn - that's a whole different thing altogether.

But regarding having someone help out at your house - don't be so quick to get on the moral high horse and say people are pathetic.

Some of us women out there work very long hours. If you get up at 5, you're at work from 7am to 5pm, back after travelling home at 6 - 6h30 and then have to cook dinner, help kids with homework, get the house clean and ready for the next day, pack lunches and a hundred other little things that need doing and you do it year in and year out - not so pathetic when you want/need help anymore. Oh, and in between you need to help out at school, get kids to and from daycare etc etc etc all the while providing emotional support to hubby in his job and also keeping family and friends happy by speding quality time with them, albeit sometimes on Skype. There are only so many hours in the day. (And this is with hubby helping out, so don't rule that out)

I think the "having a domestic help" topic has been discussed to death on this forum. If only we could get the moral high horse and the alleged patheticness of SA women out of the equation, maybe some good could come of it.

So I guess all the tasks above that you describe counts only for SA women?? What time do you think does the domesctic leave her home? I do not suppose she has a vehicle or children, right? Women in other countries off course do not work, I can tell you, I know of women that leave their homes at 5am,,and arrive home at 8pm. We in other countries do not cook dinner, kids can go hungry, homework,,what is that?? No we do not have any friends in need of help, hubby is doing perfect without me, oooooo please. It seems you are looking for sympathy.

[zetman]

This post was about people wanting to go back to SA, how did it end up in an argument about domestic workers and how much people earn ????

[Dedrei]

Let's keep to the topic at hand. No more domestic vs no domestic post please

[bluebonnet]

Let's keep to the topic at hand. No more domestic vs no domestic post please

Sorry Dedrei,,it is so off topic.

[PhillipJ]

It's amazing how South Africans would have a go at each other, I guess this is what make us unique. We always find something to argue about.

Queensland Girl you're spot one. Having lived in Aus for almost 10 years I can concur, this is plain rubbish. I know of 1 family that went back and still remain in SA but know of many more that went back to SA and all came back (including me). I guess it's just some nonsense media hype.

Also, cut Edwina some slack. Goodness, I fail to see anything in her responses that merit such criticism. Edwina's comments are always very informative and good and someone just blew it way out of proportion. Don't let yourself be put off Edwina.

Having lived here for almost 10 years I got over the "mine is better than yours" mentality. I don't argue with people about where is best to live. I love Australia and what it offers and would not fit back in SA (tried a few years ago). We've had our fair share of people we met who came here and start to complain about the most trivial things you can imagine (seeing someone barefoot in a shopping complex as an example). If people come with an attitude to find fault you will find it, that's a guarantee. I would rather encourage people to go back if they're unhappy for whatever reason. (I would not stay in a place where I don't feel at home, I'll pack up and leave as soon as I can as life will be damn depressing). So many people I know came back after a SA stint and stopped complaining about trivial things. Having learned an embarrassing and expensive lesson makes you appreciate things a lot more.

I am also not interested in convincing people how wonderful Aus is or how bad SA is. I've traveled the world and SA is still a vastly better place to live than most other 3rd world countries. It still has a lot to offer (especially family).

My advice, if you don't like your new home (anywhere in the world), go back to SA. Stop whinging and just do it! For some people it may be the best thing as I honestly believe if you leave SA for the wrong reasons you will never be happy anywhere.

[polly]

I ALWAYS went shopping barefoot in SA. Here people seem a bit strict on shoes. You saw people shopping barefoot? I think that lets me revert to old habits

[lyall]

I ALSO USED TO GO SHOPPING BAREFOOT..yay, at least Im not the only one, the only problem is it is so darn cold I wear two pairs of socks under shoes at all times..

I am a bit disapointed in my husband though, cause he talks of going back every single day, he really misses his parents, they used to live with us, so we were all very close, and I think he worries about them. Not to say i or the rest of us dont worry about our families, just some of us can deal with it and others cant. I have no intention of even going back for a holiday..might have to to help daughter when she leaves to come here, other than that, I have never believed in looking back in life...and thinking about what you had before, I never went to school reunions and so on, and I think I am a happier person for that, have learnt to move on and adjust more easily. I keep on just reminding him very gently about why we are here, and then he feels a bit better, but his parents text/phone/email every single day, some times three times in one day... and I think he's finding it hard to let go.

[PhillipJ]

I ALWAYS went shopping barefoot in SA. Here people seem a bit strict on shoes. You saw people shopping barefoot? I think that lets me revert to old habits

Hi Polly

Hope you don't mean me being off topic. I'm talking about "SA snobs" who complain about something as stupid as seeing people shopping barefoot and then make as it this is a major issue with "classless" Aus. We actually met such people. Barefoot shopping NEVER bothered me, heck I'll do it myself living only 10 mins from the beach. I would not even notice something this trivial.

Hope you get my point. It was about SA whingers in general who make their life very difficult with this attitude.

PhillipJ

[polly]

Lol, no, meant I was going off topic

Know exactly what you mean Grew up next to the beach. Went shopping in a swimsuit and sarong a lot. Then we moved to Gauteng... Was frowned upon a little

Will see this summer if I can get away with it in Melbourne Between that and the camera, you think I will be noticed?

What I didn't expect when we moved here was feeling like we did when we were students. Walking everywhere, not caring what people think of you and most people not judging you. Everyone being as friendly as the students were...

Literally "no worries"

[PhillipJ]

Lol, no, meant I was going off topic

Know exactly what you mean Grew up next to the beach. Went shopping in a swimsuit and sarong a lot. Then we moved to Gauteng... Was frowned upon a little

Will see this summer if I can get away with it in Melbourne Between that and the camera, you think I will be noticed?

What I didn't expect when we moved here was feeling like we did when we were students. Walking everywhere, not caring what people think of you and most people not judging you. Everyone being as friendly as the students were...

Literally "no worries"

I'm sure you'll be noticed but not frowned upon.

Melbourne is not that far from the beach, is it?

Totally agree, "no worries" is the way it should be.

PhillipJ

[calibrated]

I am a bit disapointed in my husband though, cause he talks of going back every single day, he really misses his parents, they used to live with us, so we were all very close, and I think he worries about them.

my grandparents are here at the moment on holiday, we just missed them too much. now for the last 2 weeks, my grans brother is at vincent palotti hospital in cape town in a coma after 2 severe strokes on each side. doctors didnt give him till then end of that weekend, but somehow he is still alive. they want to go back now, and we are worried that if he goes, they will all go soon after. they are a large and extremely close knit family.

im going over in 2 weeks, and i really hope i wont have to be attending a funeral.

[AndreaL]

Missing family is one of the hardest things.

I saw this when my folks emigrated to South Africa, although they were really supported in their decision by their own parents.

I thought my hubby would struggle with missing his family, but surprisingly I am the one who has the odd day of yearning just to see them.

My brother-in-law misses his parents terribly -and his Dad had a recent health scare- so much so that the thought of going back does cross his mind, I think he feels torn between supporting his parents and providing for his teenage children here.

In my melancholy moments I remember something my Dad once said, it is a bit of a family motto, "Me and my own"

His premise is that yes, you love your parents and siblings, but once you marry and have your own children, that family should be your number one priority, you job is to protect and defend your own, sort of like a lioness with her cubs.

My maiden name is McFarlane and the McFarlane clan's creed is " This I'll defend", I try and live by that.

Calibrated, take the opportunity to see as many loved ones as you can and let them know how much you care.

p.s My Dad is in hospital in Cape Town at the moment having an operation on his spine, I wish I could be there to help.

AndreaL

[Legalbuff]

My apologies to Koosdup as topic starter and the administrators (and readers of the thread) for going so way off topic.

I responded to a thread I thought rude and insulting. The answer on my post - even more so.

I will, as per Deirdre's request, refrain from responding to that.

[The Allisons]

Heard this statistic from a friend of a friend the other day and have been wondering how valid it is

According to them (now happily settled in Brisbane) 4000 families leave here MONTHLY and 2000 return..

True??

Friends in SA think everybody goes back, because they only have contact with people going back. We think nobody goes back, because we only have contact with people that stay.

Below you can find the truth. The latest data is for 2006/2007 is:

+/- 4000 SA people arrived permanently and only +/-500 departed permanently.

Yes, some people have a set of circumstances or personalities that make it extremely difficult to stay, but the ratio is far from 50%. As a matter of fact, it is only 13%. Still a lot, but migration is natural. If you look at the average for all nationalities, then it is 50% of the the people that come to oz stay, the others leave again. In global terms, it means that Australia is a great place, as we have a positive influx. In the case of SA, it is obvious that we have some serious trouble back home. We have a way above average retention ratio compared to the rest of the world.

The official statistics available at http://www.immi.gov.au/media/statistics/st...ovs/totmova.htm for permanent arrivals and http://www.immi.gov.au/media/statistics/st...ovs/totmovb.htm for departures, relevant parts copied copied below:

Total Arrivals by Country of Birth

Total Arrivals:

Country of Birth by Category of Traveller for the Financial Year 2006-07

Country of Birth Settler Arrival

South Africa 3 996

All nationalities 140 148

Total Movements Data

Total Departures: Country of Birth by Category of Traveller for the Financial Year 2006-07

Country of Birth Permanent Departure

South Africa 535

All nationalities 72 103

Hope that helped.

Herman

Edited December 12, 2008 by The Allisons

[Eva]

Thanks Herman!

[Mix]

Found this on a website the other day and wrote it down.

Cannot find the link off-hand, but will search.

7% of SA immigrants from Aus AND NZ, return to RSA.

Do they then return to Aus/ NZ again ? - the statistics didn't calculate that.

20% of the less sunny Canadian and British immigrants return to RSA.

Do they then return to Canada / Britian or even try out Aus/ NZ - the statistics didn't calculate that.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Mix

[lyall]

thanks for the stats..very interesting...

[Cindylou]

As the definition of Settler is

A person arriving in Australia who holds one of the following:

a permanent visa

a temporary (provisional) visa where there is a clear intention to settle eg. Intending Marriage visa

a New Zealand citizen who indicates an intention to settle

a person otherwise eligible to settle (eg an overseas-born child of Australian citizens).

so for the figures to be a more accurate reflection you should included the "Long term visitor" figures as these numbers would include all those who arrive on 457 visa (which is then converted at a later stage to a Permanent Residence visa at a later stage) I would hazard a guess that the majority of Saffers going to Aus on 457 are intending to settle there permanently.

If these figures are included then the numbers are Arrivals 10 623, Departures 2 205 for financial year 06-07.

[IslandStyle]

We lived between South Africa and the UK a few times...

Shouldn't the nickname rather read as 'sa2uk2sa2uk2sa2uk2oz'? ;]

[Superkruz]

i wonder how many south africans call australia home, (ie people who moved here and are now on PR or who have become citizens)