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My reasons for leaving South Africa


Emille

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Some of the reasons why I am going

First of all I have to say 3 basic things: no 1: it’s a private choice for me to decide to emigrate, and it’s a private choice for you to choose to stay. We all need to make our own choices, we all have our own circumstances, our own destinies and our own personalities. No 2: nobody leaves this country, and especially this city, because they don’t love it, or because it’s not beautiful, or because it does not have advantages/positives. In fact it’s a very traumatic and sad thing to do- because you never get rid of your longing for the country and your loved ones until you die. No 3: I don’t criticize people for staying and I expect them not to criticize or even argue me for going. At the end those going will have to live with the consequences, and those staying have to live with the consequences.

That said, I can only share my point of view and my reasons, as I said it’s a personal issue:

The issues in this country are not just crime or hatred it is complex. Everybody ask me ‘why are we emigrating’ and it is exactly my answer every time: “it’s not just because of one reason but a whole lot of reasonsâ€. I will mention a few:

1) Safety: I want to live in a country where I don’t have to live in fear for my or my family’s safety. The facts of this country are the facts of this country- it IS one of the 3 most violent countries in the world, and that cannot be argued away. The question is do you want to expose your family to that risk or don’t you. Every day 5 people are murdered in Cape Town and that is 5 too many. In fact, more people are murdered in South Africa than in any other country that is not in a war. Every 13 seconds a woman is raped in this country. Just because it hasn’t happened to you does not mean that it cannot happen to you. And no, poverty is not the reason- many many countries are far poorer (African countries, India, Brazil etc) and yet their crimes are not as violent.

I for one don’t want to expose myself, my wife and my child to that risk. I have spend over R60 000 securing my house but at the end that does not guarantee anything. The psychological and mental effect on people from seeing and hearing about murder and rape every day and the fear of crime are substantial but this cannot be measured. The government is incapable of sorting this out. Due to affirmative action, they have lost so many competent investigators that it’s a sad state of affairs.

2) Financially: financially we are getting poorer and poorer in this country. This year, our salary increase is lower than inflation, which means I am effectively worse off than a year ago. This, coupled with increased food prices, and increased petrol prices, and high interest rates, we are becoming poorer and poorer. The Rand is getting progressively weaker and weaker over time (it lost 40% to the Dollar some time ago)- in 1999 the Rand to the Pound was R8=Pound1, now it’s R15. This means that I am effectively 50% poorer (therefore although that oil prices and food prices are world wide issues, the impact on us here is so much more because our Rand is weak). Again, the government is incapable of doing something about it- they still tax petrol prices very highly and refuses to let go on this. In fact, our petrol is exported to neighbouring countries that often pays less for it than what we pay here.

3) Career: I will be in this post for the next 25 years until I retire. There is nowhere to move to- I am not interested in working anywhere else in South Africa and there are no alternatives in Cape Town. As a white male my changes of opening a private firm is zero as in policy/strategy I will never be employed by local governments, provincial governments etc due to my skin colour. Staying here to ‘contribute to the country’ sounds nice and is well meaning, but in practice it does not work like that, not for me it doesn’t. I came back from London as a highly sought-after planner in London, and thought (naively) that I will be able to make a substantial contribution here and implement/advise South Africans on the most progressive solutions to urban issues. I have not been given the opportunity to do this, in part due to my skin colour.

4) Discrimination/racism: Fact is racism is racism, sexism is sexism- whether it’s a woman being sexist against a male, or vice versa, whether it’s a black person against a white person or vice versa. But not here: Its now 15 years after Apartheid, but still any criticism of the government, or in fact of any black person, is that the race card is thrown at you. Affirmative action is still in place, and in fact its implemented incorrectly (the intention by law is that if 2 people are exactly the same ito experience and qualifications, and the one is white and the other one black, then the black should get the job). It’s been used as an excuse to discriminate against white people and against males and that is immoral; and to promote black people and women ahead of white males. The idea is to have a non-racial society and a level-playing field- when is this going to happen? If any country should actively pursue non-racialism it should be this country, but no discrimination is built into legislation. The result? Things like the energy crises (which now affects the poor because the economy is not growing as much as it would without the energy crises- direct result of affirmative action – white males with skills were fired and given packages in groves since 1994. And double standards: I mean we have organisations like Black Sash, Black Management Forum, Black Farmers Association, Black Journalist Forum etc.- yet can you imagine the outcry if you had White Sash, White Management Forum, White Farmers Association, White Journalist Forum? And so-called ‘black empowerment’ is a farce and no empowerment at all- only very few of Mbeki’s friends are getting rich to the expense of the poor. I want to be in a country where my son will have all the opportunities he can get and where he can compete on an equal footing to others of his age.

5) Wastage of money and plain incompetence: we all know the issues that need to be addressed, and yet, money is spent on things like name chances, on expensive flights and luxury hotel stays for ministers etc. ESCOM bosses should’ve been fired due to incompetence, but no, the CEO still get his 11 MILLION Rand a year. And all the executives get their bonuses. I don’t want to even think about the billions that are being wasted and stolen in this country.

6) Injustice / international relations: I don’t know if you follow the news, but South Africa ALWAYS, without exception, vote against proposals that will enforce rules on dictators etc. Examples of this is Burma, Zimbabwe, Russia’s invasion in Georgia, Iran etc. etc. too many to mention. But surely due to our history we should be champions against injustice everywhere? But no, the rule that applies here- as long as the person is not your ally, he cannot do anything wrong. Zimbabwe Zimbabwe- that’s another 15 pages and SA could if it stood up for justice sorted this problem out long before it got out of hand, but no, ZanoPF has always been an ally to the ANC and thus whatever they do cannot be wrong. Not to talk about domestic affairs- our health minister, an alcoholic, basically stole a liver from somebody that needed it more, and she continues to drink, there is absolute no justice and she still sits in her post, why? Because she’s an ally of Mbeki. I want to be part of a country which stands up for justice.

I can mention many other reasons/examples but it will end up being a book. Maybe other people can see this injustice and it does not affect them, but I cannot, it goes against my grain. I cannot longer be confronted by this every living day of my life and expose my son to it in the future, I am very very sorry. This does not include all the advantages and opportunities in Australia, but that’s a whole other topic on its own.

E

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Hi Emile

You forgot to mention the new property rates and taxes in general for which we receive absolutely nothing in return since we still have to cough up for school fees and medical aid etc. In Durban many of our middle class area rates went up by between 100% and 300%, I don't know how they expect us to live as you say we are getting poorer in real terms.

Then there is the issue of free houses where people are encouraged to leave their farm houses to come to the city to get RDP homes which tax payers must foot the bill for. There are not enough jobs in the city and people turn to crime.

The squatter camps are only growing every day with people who want houses in the city as well as their homes in the rural areas.

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Hi Everyone!

Thanks for the supportive replies! I was really worried that I would be shut down for being so politically incorrect (you know...saying the "Black" word and all) ! I don't feel comfortable talking to my own group of friends about such issues as they are still living in the lap of luxury in their parent's homes in secured golf estates and working on becoming proffessional "students" or have a job lined up at dad's company. They have never worked a day in their lives and their mom's still do everything for them...they live in that: "It's not thaaaat bad" dream world :ilikeit:

Emille, thanks for starting this topic! Do you know that if it wasn't for your message, I would still have no idea what BEE and AA was really all about?! So THANKS, although I was a bit furios at first knowing that I was actually being blatantly descriminated against by those companies that turned me away!

Good Luck everyone for your applications and the big move! I am so scared of going on my own I really admire those of you who are packing up everything and taking the whole family! It's really uplifting to read and confirms my choice even more! :ilikeit:

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I am sick and tired of the fact that in South Africa the way to deal with a problem is to put up a sign:

"Danger Hijacking hotspot"

"Danger smash and grab hotspot"

"Danger Potholes" ....

Scuze my french but that is BULLSHIT.

My children are being taught the biggest load of crap in school , and I can do nothing about it! My 12 year old son, spent 3 hours in the sun a couple of weeks ago "protesting" as part of an assignment on gender equality. I have no problem with teaching gender equality or racial equality idiot equality or any type of equality, but the underlying message that the children learn is to take up placards and "demand" when there are more civilised and intelligent ways to get things done.

My other son had to prepare an assignment on the different ways in which to get a divorce?! I am forced to say at this point WTF?

And there I've gone and ranted like a looney! :ilikeit::ilikeit::ilikeit: I don't care what other people think about immigration anymore, I am fed up and choose not to live like this anymore

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I am sick and tired of the fact that in South Africa the way to deal with a problem is to put up a sign:

"Danger Hijacking hotspot"

"Danger smash and grab hotspot"

"Danger Potholes" ....

Scuze my french but that is BULLSHIT.

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE SO FUNNY FUNNY BUT SO TRUE and if you tell your new Aus friends they wont believe you, but you only understand this if you live in this country!!! (I nearly fell off the chair laughting...classic!!)

And for me it is scary that we find this funny, any wonder the Aussies don't 'get' us! Guess if we didn't laugh about it :ilikeit: :ilikeit: we would cry!! :ilikeit: :ilikeit:

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Hi there

First having taught at a very reputable university in South Africa (many years ago now but still) I am shocked to hear about your experiences, that 'lecturer' and I'm using the term very loosely after what you've told us, should at least have been sanctioned in some way, better yet dismissed outright in my view.

As a white male heading towards 40 in SA I hit the same thing you did. Applied for jobs (in IT with more than 10 yrs exp) to be told sorry BEE quota's etc. In my then company, of the big banks I saw people being promoted around and over people I thought were way, way more suited to the job. Of course we saw the crime etc etc and just decide it was not worth the risk and the everyday stress, if the country of our birth that we really love like any other South African, was so bent on making virtually impossible to build a descent life for our family, there were many that would welcome us.

I can only say that moving to Australia, only 2 yrs or so now, was the best thing we ever did! It is not easy, but I cannot express enough the sense of peace I feel when I go down to a park with my baby son and see many, many children of all ages, some with parents some by themselves, just playing. No guard, no walls. Obviously crime happens and some are shocking, but I feel I can go to work and not worry the whole day what I might find when I get home :-) I can leave the cars on the street (no fence never mind walls) and sleep perfectly :-)

I just want to say that I admire your decision and I know that the members of this forum will give you heaps of support all the way. Enjoy your studies and look forward to the future I'm sure you have in Australia.

Peace my friends

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And there I've gone and ranted like a looney! ph34r.gif blink.gif blink.gif I don't care what other people think about immigration anymore, I am fed up and choose not to live like this anymore

Emile well written , Kthompson, Kapoen, Jimmip Eva I hear where you coming from and agree wholehartedly. You have first hand experience as I left a few years ago. Julle slaan die spyker op die KOP!

The signs has been on the wall for a while and no authoritative body are prepared to do anything as they will obviously ostracized by the ruling party or even worse have their budget reduced. Reminds me of Communist/socialist tendencies.

I hope and pray that you guys succeed to get your Visa's, cut your losses and get going. The safety of your children are paramount one cannot put a price on that.

The sooner the better, reading the SA newspapers makes me believe some infighting going on in the ruling party which by the way rules three Quarters of the parliament.Democracy my ,,,,,. GOD FORBID the break in the ANC could lead to tribalism war which ultimately will deteriorate to Ethnic cleansing as happen all over the world and SA is not immune.

I feel for my distant family and friends I left behind. However there are some that i will say" I told you SO"

To everyone who find Emile's points valid i say -:

Good luck with your Endeavors. Support will come from all over.

Wacka

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Emille you have struck the nail on its head.

Our family will be leaving for Brisbane at the end of December. It is one of the most painful, stressful, financially and emotionally draining experiences that one can ever go through. To depart from so much to total uncertainty!

Neither I nor my wife has secured employment. We will be going over with our PR’s and a lot of beleif in the Lord’s mercy. To leave a place that you were willing to sacrifice so much for is to say the least very difficult.

You therefore have to excuse the cynical nature of this post as it has to be seen in the context of our current mental state with the container arriving in a week and the whole process of disposing of most of everything for nothing.

I think Emille have captured most of my sentiments. As rightfully said, in the end it is a very personal decision.

I have just resigned from a University where the university board and rector has overtly declared open hunting season on any white staff member showing any initiative and whom have build the institution to one of the biggest and most recognised in the county though many years of dedication. The open season was declared following Asmal’s grand plan to eradicate functional tertiary institutions by having them merge with (and taken over) by formally dysfunctional, mismanaged, indebted institutions.

Over the past couple of years I have realized with shock, shame and sadness how much we (especially young Afrikaner male conscripts) were indoctrinated into believing a load of nonsense that the “Broederbond†government fed us to further their own interests only to be told that it was all in vain. To quote Pik Botha: “ons seuns is soos honde doodgeskiet op die grensâ€. I think the “Boetman is gatvol†letter, debated extensively in the media a while back, have summed it up very well.

Three weeks ago, I went on one of my annual “lone-walkabouts†into Africa on my motorcycle. This time round it had special meaning as it was a last “ode to Africaâ€. The plan was to spend three solitary days on the Makgadikgadi pans in Botswana. I ended up spending one night in my tent next to the police station in Letlakhane after writing off my bike by colliding with and killing a cow on the Orapa road. By the grace of God I have sustained very few injuries. Without going into too much detail (like being stupid and breaking my own rule not to drive at night in Africa) this experience has thought me a valuable lesson. Not everyone in Africa has the same animosity, anger and hate towards whites. Everyone that I came across (the people next to the road, police, nurses at the hospital, etc.) were friendly, very helpful and sympathetic. Nobody took the slightest advantage of my misfortunes. Despite poverty, hardship and lack of resources everyone were willing to assist in any way they could, without expecting anything in return. I believe that the Lord has forced me to realize that I should not base my decision to emigrate primarily in response to the animosity that I experience on a daily basis but that I should rather look at the system within which such animosity thrives and not the individual behind the hate-filled face.

The bottom line is – I would rather be a stranger in a foreign country than a stranger in my own country.

The Afrikaners of old were willing to cross mountains and some (“bittereindersâ€) even opted to settle in Argentina rather than being subjected to a system that that they perceived to alienate them and which made them foreigners in their own country. Currently it feels that to survive as an endangered species (a white Afrikaner male) in South Africa you have to constantly capitulate, give in, give up or surrender to survive. The other option is to gather as much wealth as you can for Me, Myself and I without regard to anyone around you. Neither is an option for me.

I have made a conscious decision to leave and not to have my two young sons exposed to this system. Not to have them pay for the “sins†of the past. To have them grow up in a country that they can be proud of. To build a livelihood and prosper without the constant fear that it may be temporary only to be destroyed or taken away by the system for purposes of redressing the past.

I am not running away, I am running towards a better future!!!!!!!!!!!

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Hi Trekboer

Being in education myself I understand and feel what you feel. I have seen so much corruption in these last few years and mostly in management. (Latest: Principal gave the common Grade 12 papers written in September to his son, before they where written, and the son bragged about it). Yes Power corrupts absolutely. You and your wife will get jobs, I know it. My husband and I (with 3 small kids) did misionary work for 10 years and when we left both of us didn't have jobs. We basically lived in a garage. It took us 7 years to build up careers from basically nothing. (this is in SA with about 40% unemployment). I got my Hons beginning of this year.

Others have done what you are doing with far less.

Strongs - hang in there.

Karina

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Hi Trekboer ,

I think that what you have said is very true .We are also going without having secured employment and no-one knows how hard it is to leave everything you know and have worked for , until they have done it themselves! This is especially difficult when the economic outlook in the world is ominous. We are immigrating for a better way of life. We as parents place our children’s interests before our own. We can no longer tolerate the continuous erosion of our standard of living and anticipate nothing changing that will improve the standard of our children’s lives in the future...We are prepared to bear the hardships of immigrating, even if our situation as parents, initially, is far more difficult then remaining in this country.

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Hi Trekboer

I have said this in one of my previous posts...

You need more guts to leave than to stay...

You are running towards a better future for you and your kids... always remind yourself of this...

Donna, I know that we sometimes place our children's interests before our own... my prayer is that, I hope our kids turn out to be respectable and appreciate this HUGE sacrifice that we are making for 'them'...

Best of luck guys... hope it's all worth it.

Joefromsa

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I have read this thread with great interest and it is encouraging to hear that all seem to believe in the pull factors and promise not to complain about the push factors once we are on Ozzie land.

Crime is underlying reason we are leaving - I had an aweful experience while staying in a B&B while in Pretoria for work - I lost my faith in humanity. I find it so hard to understand how so many people in this country have turned to such barbaric behaviour - the trauma that a violent crime has on so many people in this country is frightening...I am waiting to exhale...I am waiting for the tension in my shoulders to unfold....I am looking forward to enjoying the outdoors again - hiking in wilderness without worrying about personal safety. We are leaving because our frame of reference for understanding what defines a human has been so altered that I can no longer stay here without compromising my own value system.

It is hard we love this country..the landscapes...the smell of the dust when it starts to rain...but we need to go - like everyone in this thread we have reached that point where our future and security are our proirities! Heres to the pull factors!

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Hi all

Yes its so true so true I can just say I agree with all of you! We in SA are so used to these abnormal circumstances that we start to think its normal - normal to live in fear, normal to have a government and society who do not know what values and human dignity is...

E

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It is one of the most painful, stressful, financially and emotionally draining experiences that one can ever go through. To depart from so much to total uncertainty!

Over the past couple of years I have realized with shock, shame and sadness how much we (especially young Afrikaner male conscripts) were indoctrinated into believing a load of nonsense that the “Broederbond†government fed us to further their own interests only to be told that it was all in vain. To quote Pik Botha: “ons seuns is soos honde doodgeskiet op die grensâ€. I think the “Boetman is gatvol†letter, debated extensively in the media a while back, have summed it up very well.

The bottom line is – I would rather be a stranger in a foreign country than a stranger in my own country.

The Afrikaners of old were willing to cross mountains and some (“bittereindersâ€) even opted to settle in Argentina rather than being subjected to a system that that they perceived to alienate them and which made them foreigners in their own country.

I have made a conscious decision to leave and not to have my two young sons exposed to this system.

I am not running away, I am running towards a better future!!!!!!!!!!!

Trekboer, I appreciate the realistic but positive way in which you described your reasons for leaving.

My reasons for leaving nearly 25 years ago were different from yours, but strangely similar. As I see it, this is the third Groot Trek we had to undertake in the last 300 years (not counting Argentina etc). But it is also the easiest (relatively speaking).

The first trek was Europe and Asia to Africa. Many of our ancestors left poor economical circumstances or religious persecution in Europe (or in chains from Asia) to cross mighty oceans in tiny leaking wooden ships, taking many months to reach the Cape. Then they had to start a new life in an unknown continent with hostile native tribes and dangerous animals. In many instances they fought for land (incl the government), and then had to clear it, before they could start farming, ie earning an income. And many instances they were bonded or contracted to others.

The second trek was the Cape to the African interior. Again leaving poor economical circumstances and real or perceived discrimination, they crossed mighty mountains over months or years in small, ill-protected ox-wagons. In the interior, they faced similar circumstances to the earlier migrants. Initially no schools, no churches, no banks etc. And after a few decades they had to fight a couple of wars to hold on to it.

The third trek is our generation. Again leaving for better economical circumstances, safety and real or perceived discrimination/persecution (in my case, the “system†was the previous regime); the procedure is much easier – and we now have the Internet. After waiting some months or years for a piece of paper (visa), we hop on an aeroplane, and reach the new destination within hours. A bit of turbulence on the way, but no fierce storms like our ancestors had to face. In “Canaan†we find ourselves amongst friendly locals. Everything works, we just have to find a job, a home, a tv, open a new bank account, and find a new school for the kids amongst many choices. It is tough and not to be underestimated, but in comparison it is not that hard really.

As for the nay-sayers, I think they have always been there. In the end immigration is a personal choice based on personal reasons, and I wouldn’t worry too much about what others may think. I could blame the old National Party for a lot of things (it won’t help), but in hindsight I am much better off now, and I am better off than what I would have been had a stayed and suffered and I certainly don’t regret my decision. Maybe trekking is in my blood, but anyway, thanks to PW Botha for the push.

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we are leaving because our frame of reference for understanding what defines a human has been so altered that I can no longer stay here without compromising my own value system.

That is exactly the reason!

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Look All. Whatever is happening to South Africa internally is GODS WILL!!! If it were not then it would not happen!...Then the GOD of your understanding is powerless against NEGATIVE BEINGS!!!! that is causing these horrific going's on in SA!!??and in the whole world! Have you ever considered that it is his will that innocents suffer??..Apologies Richard_B.

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Look All. Whatever is happening to South Africa internally is GODS WILL!!! If it were not then it would not happen!...Then the GOD of your understanding is powerless against NEGATIVE BEINGS!!!! that is causing these horrific going's on in SA!!??and in the whole world! Have you ever considered that it is his will that innocents suffer??..Apologies Richard_B.

Richard

Your theory has been discussed extensively and exhaustively on another thread, search for it.

Edited by Kapoen
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Look All. Whatever is happening to South Africa internally is GODS WILL!!! If it were not then it would not happen!...Then the GOD of your understanding is powerless against NEGATIVE BEINGS!!!! that is causing these horrific going's on in SA!!??and in the whole world! Have you ever considered that it is his will that innocents suffer??..Apologies Richard_B.

Richard B,

Like Kapoen said, this horse has trotted around the course more than a few times already.

Just tone down the way you come accross when responding - no need to "shout".

Dax

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I have always wondered why Family members and friends are so quick to respond in the negative when you tell them that you are leaving, about how the grass is not always greener on the other side and that many people come back eventually etc. etc. I then however realized that it was less about me but more about them trying to soothe their own fears and uncertainties about the future. They need to believe that we are making the wrong decision and for their sakes I am really hoping that this will turn out to be the silliest most idiotic decision I have ever made in my life.... and as I am writing this I conjure up a video clip I saw a while back of a Zimbabwean farmer in the early nineties saying how good everything turned out there and how wrong the doomsayers where.

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Hi All

I am finding it more and more interesting that everyone I encounter who knows of my eventual intention to immigrate has been quite supportive and there almost seems to be a quiet unspoken understanding of my reasons for doing so. I think there is a very strong reality (in my case anyway) that my decision is ultimately a good one. I dont believe anyone of us has to justify or explain ourselves. The newspaper stories and headlines speak volumes already! We all have to do what we feel is right for us. Plain and simple!!

M

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