Don't go to Perth = Article in Beeld today 17/03/2008

[Legalbuff]

What is everybody's reaction to this?

I just read Brisbie's post on being tortured and held at gunpoint, fearing for their lives. I am feeling very emotional and angry and this preacher saying we should let our light shine in Africa.

I don't feel his comments are fair and would like to know whether he or his family has been through what Brisbie and hers went through.

Will he be saying the same thing? Putting fear and doubt into people's hearts, who have already made up their minds?

Do you think staying is truly the will of God? Would God want us to live in fear - surely having faith against all odds is what being a Christian is all about - then why do I have this relentless knowledge in my heart that we need to get out ASAP!!

Luckily we are already committed by contract, otherwise I know this headline would've upset me. What do you guys think??

[HansaPlease]

Here's the link - http://www.news24.com/Beeld/Suid-Afrika/0,...2289318,00.html

[Colling-vrou]

I haven't read the article, but I can just imagine what the Preacher wrote. We have 'friends' in our town and to whose church we once went, who thinks we are way off the straight and narrow for thinking of emigrating. I am a child of God and experience Him in my life daily. I have not taken the decision for going over lightly. We have prayed over this (my husband and myself) for a very long time... 5years if I'm not mistaken. God eventually prepared me and gave us both clear answers..... so nobody can argue with that. What I do know is that God calls everyone differently,.... your calling might be to stay and work amongst the criminals and victims... (read Corrie ten Boom's book - "the Hiding Place" where God called her to work amongst the Jews in the concentration camps,.... BUT God also used her brother who didn't live in "Nederland" and could help get some Jews out). I truely believe that everyone should seek his or her own destiny and calling from their Creator, who had a plan when He created them. Mine at this stage is my children and to give them a decent education and to be a stay-at-home mom. Also to be able to raise them in safety.... It is not up to me to tell others to go if they have a "heart" for the Africans and it's not up to them to tell me to stay if I "don't".

[Guest natalie3]

I havent read the article..but id rather let my little light shine in oz...

Thanks preacher..but there are already enough lights shining in africa...especially with those police helicopters above my neighbourhood shining their flood lights into my garden every night!

Those who want to stay are welcome and i will not resent them for that..if only they would reciprocate with a little positivity for those of us who are leaving.

Im sorry,,but im not going to stick around and wait for something to happen to my child...an yes..those that stay will say "it could happen in oz"..but we all know the odds are not in your favour in SA....

[Guest natalie3]

I read the article now..

mmm..whatever.

[lucinda1985]

I read the article now..

mmm..whatever.

hmmm I am also saying whatever Natalie3... If i want to go to Australia, India or Pakistan I will go it's my choice...

Wee jy mense wat hul neuse in ander mense se sake steek!!!!

[Firstworld_girl]

Those who want to stay are welcome and i will not resent them for that..if only they would reciprocate with a little positivity for those of us who are leaving.

You've said it!

It's not an easy decision to make...

This is exactly the argument my mom has.

Unfortunately I have to support her financially - will be much less of a burden on our budget if I can do it from over there.

[louw.pretorius]

Currently I am in the same situation that my brain says gogogo ! but the Lord has not made it clear in my heart what His will is in this matter.

1. No-one can tell someone else what the Will of God is in matters like these where a personal conviction is needed

2. I understand that God will protect you if you stay in his Will but sometimes His will is to go thru Hell and witness on the other end - to show that His love still shines in a Christian heart. I just don't think He wants all of us to go thru Hell to show this, he selects those who can... I don't know if I will be able to do that if my little girl or baby boy gets hurt in any way. I just don't know if my faith will survive that especially if I had the chance to leave itall behind me and make a new life.....

3. So I do what I can and do my EILTS etc and see if He opens the door further or if He shuts it very definitely.

Regards

Louw

[JohanK]

I was not amazed at all when I started to read this article in the Beeld well, let me say the moment I saw that this man of the cloth preached from with in the NG Kerk Moreletaprak “Toe kom die lig aan†as one would say in Afrikaans.

You see there is a certain “Dominee†that lived in New Zealand for an extensive period of time but struggled to adapt to the New Zealand way of live and moved back to South Africa about two year ago.(Not that I have a problem with that but then be man enough to acknowledge that you as an individual could not adapt to your new county do not lambaste the county) When he arrived back in SA of course he was asked why he returned to South Africa and he immediately started to criticize New Zealand and I suppose made this his escape code. Since then the NG Kerk Moreletapark has been known as very anti immigration to Australia & New Zealand.

Personally I would rather not say much more, as for using the Church to discuss these types of things is not on according to me!! But I suppose this is just one more way the Church uses fear to manipulate people. Unfortunately Christianity is a fear based religion.

Geeeeeeeee the power just went off in Perth wait I will sine my light and do my part to help Perth

[Anzel]

Hihihihihihi... ek het nou te lekker gelees.

Kyk, ek hou van positiewe mense, mense wat die beste van 'n slegte saak wil maak... keep going!!

MAAR

Hier's my gevoel:

1) As God vir jou sê 'GAAN', dan moet jy gaan.

2) As God vir jou sê 'BLY', dan moet jy bly.

3) As God niks vir jou sê nie - en meeste van die keer doen hy nie want hy't jou met 'n gesonde verstand geskape - dan maak jy jou eie 'mind' op!!

As God ons puppets van hom wou maak sou hy ons nie kreatief gemaak het nie!

Bietjie tong in die kies... 'n Laatste punt: Al wat ons van seker is, is die lewe waarin ons nou is, die res glo ons... al glo jy dit met jou hele hart en jou hele verstand is daar net een ding waarvan jy verseker kan wees, die lewe wat jy nou het: maak 'n sukses daarvan en geniet elke oomblik!

[BasinOzson]

Personally I would rather not say much more, as for using the Church to discuss these types of things is not on according to me!! But I suppose this is just one more way the Church uses fear to manipulate people. Unfortunately Christianity is a fear based religion.

JohanK dit is baie jammer dat jy dink dat Christenskap gedryf word deur vrees. Jy moes bepaald 'n slegte ervaring gehad het. Ek is jammer as dit so is. Daar is geen vrees in my Christelike lewe nie. Behalwe opregte empatie met mense wat uit mis op 'n wonderlike verhouding met die Here en ware vrede.

Wat sekere dominees en kerke aanbetref wat teen imm is, kan dit dalk wees dat hul bang is om hul werk te verloor. Want as so baie mense die pad vat gaan die kerke beslis swaar kry.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Vlam

[JohanK]

Behalwe opregte empatie met mense wat uit mis op 'n wonderlike verhouding met die Here en ware vrede.

Vlam,

Wie se vir jou dat ek nie 'n wonderlike verhouding met die Here het nie? My verhouding met hom verskil dalk van joune maar dit is tog hoekom ons as mense wel kan en mag verskil. Dink net hoe eentonig sou dit gewees het as almal se verhouding met die Here soos joune of myne was?

[BasinOzson]

JohanK. ek het nie bedoel of impliseer dat jy nie 'n verhouding met die Here het nie. Jammer as jy dit so verstaan het.

[WhiteAfrican]

I understand how you feel

But in the Bible there are many occasions where people emigrated e.g. one example that springs to mind is when the Israelites left Egypt for the promised land.

Must run but dont let it get to you.

If the Lord wants you here He will make very certain that you know about it.

If HE has opened the doors for you into Oz then it is his will. He has authority over everything.

keep smiling

[Peanuts]

Doesn't matter if you decide to stay or go, as long as you let your little light shine.

The brighter the better!

[jacquesd]

Ek is seker daar is ook sulke goed gese toe die mense in doerdie jare met hulle skepe die oseane ingevaar het.

Soos wat iemand se pa het ook gese dat as God wou gehad het jy moet in Oz bly, sou jy daar gebore gewees het.

Maar hier is my humble ipinie:

As hy wou gehad het ons moes vlieg, sou ons met vlerke gebore gewees het, maar daar is vliegtuie ens.

Ons het ons eie wil gekry met 'n goeie rede.Jy maak jou besluite wat jy dink is reg.Hy het sy gebooie daar gesit, en as jy daarvolgens lewe, weet ek jy lewe reg.

[Colling-vrou]

Wat van die mense wat destyds nie meer onder die Engelse diskriminasie wou bly nie en oor die Drakensberge is? Vandag praat almal van hoe braaf die Voortrekkers is, ens..... as dit nie vir hulle was nie, was Vrystaat en Transvaal nie daar nie.... of dalk is my feite verkeerd? Selfs die vroee kerk het vir Paulus gekritiseer toe hy die vreemde wou invaar om die evangelie te verkondig en ons weet waar ons sou gewees het as dit nie vir hom was nie?

[Guest natalie3]

I have told the story before ..but i will tell it again...

This is how i feel about my big move (from a spiritual perspective)

Who wants to hear the story of the man in the flood?

[nelle2oz]

Ons het n doopbelofte afgele om ons kinders in die HERE se naam op te voed.

Ons kan hulle hier nie eers n toekoms gee nie !

Ek vra my self af hoekom nou juis hierdie uitspraak-nou dat baie mense besluit het om te immigreer ?

Dit lyk vir my hierdie predikant het agtergekom hy gaan van sy lidmate en hulle bydrae verloor .........

[MCD]

Interesting ploy that "they" now use the Dominees to convince people to stay...

MCD

[Guest natalie3]

Interesting ploy that "they" now use the Dominees to convince people to stay...

MCD

Interesting..i also wondered whats going to happen to the dominee's bmw when soo many "10 de" cheques will be cashed in australia...

[Dugong]

The bible talks about being the salt and the light of the world, not of Africa. My view is that if you have a specific calling to be here (having read the article) then great, follow your calling and do what you have been called to do. I am sure that there are those who have been called to Africa, same as there are those called to Russia, China, South America etc

However, just because you have a calling to be here, don't try to force/convince others to stay. Jesus said "Go into all the world and preach the gospel" - I am not sure how that can be interpreted as - if you were born in a specific country then you have to stay there because other countries have enough light!!

I for one, feel no guilt in going to Australia, and no obligation to stay in Africa.

[zorba]

Lion King, I agree with you completely.

Dominee Mostert is not a true man of God if he tries to shame those of us who are trying to provide a safer, better environment for our children.

If he decides to stay that's his business. He has lived the better part of his life in a nice environment and has chosen to stick it out in SA for the remainder of his years. So be it.

But the younger generation, and especially our kids, have their whole lives ahead of them. Why should they live in fear where they're not welcome? IMO no amount of praying will help if my 11 year old daughter were raped or my husband killed in a hijacking!!

I would NEVER forgive myself if something happened to my kids because I as the parent was too selfish to put their future 1st...

And yes, I do realise that there are people who cannot leave because of family commitments or some other personal reasons, and we should all keep these folks in our prayers.

But Dominee Mostert, telling us to stay and keep our little lights shining in Africa? That's Eskom's job, not mine.

zorba

[Preacher]

Im not religious. Maybe thats what makes this thread so ludicrous to me. But to stay in a country where you fear for the safety of your family simply because a minister of your church is suggesting that to go would be an affront to God should be telling you something. Either your relationship with God is not as strong as his to feel the same way OR, and what is more likely, he just has a hidden agenda of his own. Probably driven by ego.

I thought God helps those who help themselves? Surely taking your family to a place of safety is an act of selflessness. If that is considered bad in your ministers eyes, then perhaps you need to be questioning him more then your own faith

[Alida]

Im not religious. Maybe thats what makes this thread so ludicrous to me. But to stay in a country where you fear for the safety of your family simply because a minister of your church is suggesting that to go would be an affront to God should be telling you something. Either your relationship with God is not as strong as his to feel the same way OR, and what is more likely, he just has a hidden agenda of his own. Probably driven by ego.

I thought God helps those who help themselves? Surely taking your family to a place of safety is an act of selflessness. If that is considered bad in your ministers eyes, then perhaps you need to be questioning him more then your own faith

I say, our God is not impractical, not a 'head in a bubble' God. He is real, practical and involved with reality. One of the ways He makes His will clear to us, is amongst others, practical circuimstances. So, I feel peace with going, for practical circumstances tells me so, peace in my heart tells me so, trusted Christian friends tells me so, nothing in the Bible forbids me to go. And, there's only 20% Christian in Aus, so maybe we can be witnesses there.

My humble opinion.

CYA there !