Think twice about going back!

[Praetor]

I am new to this forum and I am in the early stages of planning to emigrate to Aus.

It will take me about 2 years of study and 1 year of preparation to make the move, as I am in the legal profession which is not the easiest of fields within which to emigrate.

I have never travelled abroad (save for visiting 3 african countries) and have no idea what the circumstances are like in Aus (or anywhere else in the world for that matter).

I have never thought of emigrating until about a month ago, I always said I would stay in SA and switch off the lights as the last person here! That has changed very drastically recently!

I hope this will motivate some people over there, wat op moedverloor se vlakte sit en wonder of hul moet terugkeer, om vas te byt.

I have a good education with 3 degrees, and I live in a town adjacent to Johannesburg. I know nobody in Aus and I have no family there. I earn a decent living these days after starting out with nothing, and we have been living comfortably for the last 2 years after going through a hell of a financial struggle to get on our feet.

I have reached the point where I am prepared to give up all of that for the opportunity to move to Aus.

I am scared Sh**less of the change as my wife has no tertiary qualifications and I will in all probability be the only breadwinner.

Just to explain how the crime situation here has deteriorated:

I live in an upper middleclass suburb, and I would not be classified as "rich" by any standard.

However, after having a burglary about a year ago, while we were asleep in our beds, despite an alarm system with armed response backup, our daily life sounds like this:

Our home has a 5 foot wall with electric fence surrounding it, as well as an automated gate.

We have a sophisticated alarm system with a radio link to an armed respone centre.

Both the electic fence and the alarm system have battery back-ups in the event of a power failure which happens often these days.

We have motion sensors in the garden overlooking our driveway and the windows of our bedrooms, as well as between the ceiling and the roof, which we always keep switched on with a remote control.

We have burglar bars on all the windows, and safety gates on all the exterior doors.

When I go to bed at night I close all the windows, bolt my garagedoors from the inside, lock all the outside doors (the gates are always locked) lock the door between the garagedoors and the house, as well as the door between the western side of the house and the kitchen.

Then I lock the safety gate between the living area and the passage and bedrooms, as well as the solid door adjacent to the safety gate.

Then I switch on the remainder of the motion sensors in the house, and take my firearm out of the safe and put it on my bedside cupboard, with a torch.

Then I place my mobile panic button on my bedside cupboard and pray that we will be safe for the night.

This I do every night of my life in Johannesburg.

If I sleep out my wife and children do the same, but then the kids sleep with my wife in the main bedroom and they also (additionally to the above) lock the safety gate and wooden door between the main bedroom and the passage, and my wife also activates the motion sensor in the passage, and puts her firearm on her bedside cupboard.

We sometimes feel like trapped animals!

Dont think I am arrogant for urging you to stay in Aus without having any idea what life there is like.

But do you want to live like we do?

I think not

Vasbyt en wag vir ons

[Kaalvoet]

I am printing off this post .... it sums up the way we felt and how we lived when we were on a plot in the Vaal Triangle... and this was a few years ago! Maybe when I fail to explain to my children why we emigrated and left SA..this will give them some idea.

I keep lots of stuff about positive things too, so they will understand why we felt such a loss leaving our country of birth... sounds dramatic, but we are still sad about Africa and the state of crime in SA, we pray and try to help by supporting charity..... but we have to live somewhere else, shoot some new roots and look forward.

Hope you had a lovely weekend and ja, VASBYT!

[Pippa]

Dear Praetor,

I am at the stage where I tend to remember only the good things about SA and your post is therefore an eye-opener for me.

It will take me about 2 years of study and 1 year of preparation to make the move, as I am in the legal profession which is not the easiest of fields within which to emigrate.

Just want to let you know that my husband did the conversion exams as a legal professional and he did it within a year from SA. It's tough, expensive and long, but if you are determined, it is do-able. If you are in trademarks / IP, you can even try to get a job on a 457 without doing the conversion exams.

Good luck!

Pippa! X

[Sheila2oz]

Hi Praetor

That is how we lived in South Africa. Checked every nights that all the doors were locked and set the alarm and pray.

We are here 1 month and i can not believe that there is not even fencing infront of our yard. No electric fencings and now razor wires. It is great !!!!!!!

Good luck to you and your family, i am sure you have made up your mind already.

Cheers vir eers

Sheila2Oz

[Marius]

Yup, no life to live like that. We all had some of that. We actually got broken into 2 days before our container got loaded, all the stuff was packed already and they helped themselves to TV and other electronic goodies. How ironic, I actually laughed because I knew we were going to get out of that nonsense environment in a few weeks.Saved a bit oin the container, needed less space You will be OK here, lots of legal people immigrate here. PLently other poeple arrive here with no network and family but survive and get back to their feet in no time.The short term sacrafice is well worth the long term gain. Personally I had the benifit of ovedrsees travel, that actually started to drive my devision to immigrate as I could see how we "live"in Sa compared to other people. But I had never been to Australia before we landed, but we are here almost 3 years now and have never looked back. We are all very happy.

Julle sal regkom, maak die besluit en doen die daad.

Let us know how you go.

[Guest Karooseun]

Yup, no life to live like that. We all had some of that. We actually got broken into 2 days before our container got loaded, all the stuff was packed already and they helped themselves to TV and other electronic goodies. How ironic, I actually laughed because I knew we were going to get out of that nonsense environment in a few weeks.Saved a bit oin the container, needed less space You will be OK here, lots of legal people immigrate here. PLently other poeple arrive here with no network and family but survive and get back to their feet in no time.The short term sacrafice is well worth the long term gain. Personally I had the benifit of ovedrsees travel, that actually started to drive my devision to immigrate as I could see how we "live"in Sa compared to other people. But I had never been to Australia before we landed, but we are here almost 3 years now and have never looked back. We are all very happy.

Julle sal regkom, maak die besluit en doen die daad.

Let us know how you go.

[Annette]

Good grief Praetor, I can't imagine living like that.

To contrast that: My daughter and I are home alone for the weekend. We slept with all the doors and windows open last night to try and cool the house down (record heatwave here in Adelaide, 28 degrees at night!). We have no burglar bars, we have lockable screen doors, but they basically keep the flies out and are laughable as a security device. The house has no fence or gate at all at the front and is completely open to the street.

Worst problem is the possums clattering across the roof at night (or the drop bears, of course )

Vasbyt mense, ons wag vir julle!

[Bulldog]

We are also in the early phases of immigrating, waiting for RPL from ACS – what Praetor says is the truth and even worse. I would like to add the following:

We are to afraid to go out at night because of hijackings

To afraid to take our kids for fishing because they like to attack you at isolated places.

The latest thing in school is for the boys to rape the girls during breaks

Violence in school

For those thinking of coming back, I can only think how you feel to consider such a drastic step. To you I would like to propose to first come to SA for a vacation and then when you are here don’t just spend time with the family but go to places like:

- State hospitals and even most of the private hospitals

- Visit the license offices, home affairs or any other service run by the state.

- Drive on most of the freeways and you will see more and more informal settlement growing at a astonish rate (mostly illegal immigrates). At night they put rock on the freeway and rob and rape the people of the vehicle.

- When (not if but when it is your turn) the police takes hours to react when they do because they don’t have vehicles or fuel and most of the times they just don’t care.

- AA is forcing companies to have at leapt 65% black employees with in the next 5 years – many white man will receive retrenchment packages within the next few year

- There is coming a new rates and taxes law and most people will pay between 5 and 10 more than what they are currently paying now

- There is talk that the government is going to take over all exciting pension funds and create 1 for all SA residence

-

I can go on and on and on…

PLEASE PLEASE for the sake of you children stay in OZ

Hope to see some of you in Oz with the next year!!!

[Dreams]

Yes, Annette. That is how we live, just as Praetor described it. Burgler bars, panic button, phone on speed dial, torch, gun, activated alarm, bob wire on top of 6vt wall, security gates, bull terrier sleeps in house for extra alarm and to prevent poisoning, pray every night for safety, lots of keys to lock all the gates and doors. Each morning you read on news24/beeld of a murder close to you or people been attacked. We are traumatized (sp? my 1969 dictionary does not even list that word)

My friend's (old) car was stolen at the school on Saturday. How is she going to replace it?

F*#n bas**rds

[alanb]

Wow, this was a serious reality check! I didn't even want to go back for a holiday before reading this. Good luck with your endevours to get here and remember that even if you don't like Aus, you will at least be safe. It is a good place to be though.

[Preacher]

Meh. This should be made a sticky

[Dreams]

Did not mention how many times people get cought up in shoot-outs in shopping centres like Menlyn Mall, restaurants and next to the road when trigger happy robbers start shooting. Another pastime is to blow up ATM's, happens regulary.

[engel81]

I've been living in the UK now for the past 3 years. The difference to what life is like fear free just surpirsed me every time I go back for a visit. Suddenly I am paranoid. I don't trust anyone and the majority of time will be spent making sure I am safe.

Yes, Australia will be tough at the beginning (just like it was tough for me in the UK at the beginning)... But think about it: you have lived in SA ALL your life and now suddenly you are in a different country, with different rules (written & unwritten) and a different culture. If it was easy then something would be very wrong.

When I first came to the UK, friends that were already here told me to give myself 6 months and after 6 months if I am still unhappy/not fitting in... then it is my own fault.

The reality is that the South Africa I grew up in no longer excists. I don't want to fear for my life and I don't want to be bumped back in the que because my skin is not black. I deserve better. We all do...

[Just B]

Good grief Praetor, I can't imagine living like that.

To contrast that: My daughter and I are home alone for the weekend. We slept with all the doors and windows open last night to try and cool the house down (record heatwave here in Adelaide, 28 degrees at night!). We have no burglar bars, we have lockable screen doors, but they basically keep the flies out and are laughable as a security device. The house has no fence or gate at all at the front and is completely open to the street.

Worst problem is the possums clattering across the roof at night (or the drop bears, of course )

Vasbyt mense, ons wag vir julle!

Annette,

Will the mint toothpaste work on the possums just as effectively asthe drop bears

[powell's2brisbane]

HI TO ALL

YES I AGREE

Today gerda and i went to her sister in pretoria for a visit and she told us about the attempted break in in a complex

They have security cameras in there yard and this when they leave the home they tape the happenings of the cameras

On friday they left to go out and so put the tape on and about 5 min after leaving so mr evil climbes over a 8 foot wall With electric fence and into the yard snoops around and then over to the other house and into the rest of the complex area.

What beat us was he did not even think of the cameras that were recording him.

BUT this time around he got the smoke beaten out of him about 3 houses away from were he came in.

I say in sa we have no rights as south africans but the evil elements do

For you who are thinking of comeing home

PLEASE SIT DOWN AND HAVE A BOERE KOFFIE AND THEN LET THE FEELING GO OVER !!!!!!!PLEASE

Derek

Powells2Brisbane

[Bob]

Like Annette, we live in the Adelaide area, up in the Hills to the east of the city.

We live on a 3 hectare property 9 kms from the town of Mount Barker.

Adelaide has had a heatwave lately, our house being a mud brick place, tends to be an oven after a few days of 40 degrees heat.

We chose, last night, to sleep outside on the lawn . . . . a great night's sleep.

My 19 year old daughter slept in the house with the fan on.

We have a country road going past the front of out place, with no gate on our driveway.

My fencing all around my property is 1.2 metres high and is six strands of plain wire to keep cattle and sheep in.

My shed is unlocked with the door to it open while we are home.

My home has no burglar bars . . . . . never been burgled in the 12 years we've built it.

Doors and windows were open to let the cool evening air cool the house down.

We have no alarm system other than a cricket bat . . . . if I can find it!

[Blossom]

Now, at this very moment I'm sitting outside with my laptop. The TV is on inside the house, I am still in my pj's. All the windows are open, the front door is open and the curtains are drawn, I'm airing the house. Soon I'm going in to have a shower and I'm only going to lock the front door. Thats all, the back door will be open and the TV will be on otherwise it will be too quiet here. Glorious, bliss!

Please, if you are interested, read my post from a while back about our ordeal on a Warmbaths smallholding while I was visiting there. In journals, I think.

Never, ever will I go back and even a visit is out of the question. My heart will not be able to take all that 'angst' and stress!

Please, if you can, reconsider your options. Don't go back......rather get your loved ones over here. Don't give up, I know it is so hard to adjust and it feels like death in the family...this immigration thing.......but it WILL work out. After about 2 years all the hardship will be only a distant memory and you will be able to concentrate on all the beautiful things in life.

I feel like crying now, because I know it's difficult and I don't want anyone to go back to all the evil and darkness.

BYT VAS, MAGTIG. If you need somebody to talk to....phone, pm, e mail, shout, skype, anything, we'll listen!

PLEASE!

Regards,

[Jongman]

Hi Praetor

What you have said sounds ridiculous! I mean come on... all those things you do...and the firearms...

but wait a minute.. i remember that we used to do the same thing. Every night before bed we use to go through the night ritual..

Id make sure the electric fence was still clicking away.. the folks would make sure the doors and safety gates are locked. If make sure the front and middle gates were completely locked!

We'd arm the house, lock the security gates and make sure all windows are closed...

Now that i think back at it... we dont do that anymore..

Its funny how we tend to forget things. I sleep with an open window. We dont have a 6ft wall anymore.. We dont have security gates.. we dont have alarm systems (smoke detectors yes)...

Its scary to think back at the way we used to live...

WE LIVED LIKE ANIMALS!!

Thanks for your post Praetor. You certainly stimulated my thoughts...

[Guest natalie3]

Thanks from me as well praetor..u reminded me once again that im doing the right thing by leaving,,,im going to print your post and give a copy to every person who gives me the "its not so bad"..."u are cowards" run-around,,,

[Smartie]

I am new to this forum and I am in the early stages of planning to emigrate to Aus.

It will take me about 2 years of study and 1 year of preparation to make the move, as I am in the legal profession which is not the easiest of fields within which to emigrate.

I have never travelled abroad (save for visiting 3 african countries) and have no idea what the circumstances are like in Aus (or anywhere else in the world for that matter).

I have never thought of emigrating until about a month ago, I always said I would stay in SA and switch off the lights as the last person here! That has changed very drastically recently!

I hope this will motivate some people over there, wat op moedverloor se vlakte sit en wonder of hul moet terugkeer, om vas te byt.

I have a good education with 3 degrees, and I live in a town adjacent to Johannesburg. I know nobody in Aus and I have no family there. I earn a decent living these days after starting out with nothing, and we have been living comfortably for the last 2 years after going through a hell of a financial struggle to get on our feet.

I have reached the point where I am prepared to give up all of that for the opportunity to move to Aus.

I am scared Sh**less of the change as my wife has no tertiary qualifications and I will in all probability be the only breadwinner.

Just to explain how the crime situation here has deteriorated:

I live in an upper middleclass suburb, and I would not be classified as "rich" by any standard.

However, after having a burglary about a year ago, while we were asleep in our beds, despite an alarm system with armed response backup, our daily life sounds like this:

Our home has a 5 foot wall with electric fence surrounding it, as well as an automated gate.

We have a sophisticated alarm system with a radio link to an armed respone centre.

Both the electic fence and the alarm system have battery back-ups in the event of a power failure which happens often these days.

We have motion sensors in the garden overlooking our driveway and the windows of our bedrooms, as well as between the ceiling and the roof, which we always keep switched on with a remote control.

We have burglar bars on all the windows, and safety gates on all the exterior doors.

When I go to bed at night I close all the windows, bolt my garagedoors from the inside, lock all the outside doors (the gates are always locked) lock the door between the garagedoors and the house, as well as the door between the western side of the house and the kitchen.

Then I lock the safety gate between the living area and the passage and bedrooms, as well as the solid door adjacent to the safety gate.

Then I switch on the remainder of the motion sensors in the house, and take my firearm out of the safe and put it on my bedside cupboard, with a torch.

Then I place my mobile panic button on my bedside cupboard and pray that we will be safe for the night.

This I do every night of my life in Johannesburg.

If I sleep out my wife and children do the same, but then the kids sleep with my wife in the main bedroom and they also (additionally to the above) lock the safety gate and wooden door between the main bedroom and the passage, and my wife also activates the motion sensor in the passage, and puts her firearm on her bedside cupboard.

We sometimes feel like trapped animals!

Dont think I am arrogant for urging you to stay in Aus without having any idea what life there is like.

But do you want to live like we do?

I think not

Vasbyt en wag vir ons

Hi Praetor,

Wow quite a read. My husband went to Oz on an LSD in Sep last year and he came back saying - WE ARE LIVING LIKE CAGED ANIMALS. I find I am always so scared. My hubbie now comes with me into our garage at night if I need to hang up washing coz you just never know. We get into the car and my THREE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER asks me - Mommy, have you locked your door???

I am so tired of being so scared and yes we live in a stunning country but we as a family are too scared to even enjoy this country as much as we should be. Walking on the beach is a risk, going to a quite picnic area is a risk. I think your post sums up life in SA and NO AMOUNT OF MONEY can change that.

[Ready2go]

Hi everyone,

Yes have to agree, those of you who are in Oz, please stay there. South Africa is an absolute mess. Please do not come here as you may not make it out again. A little dramatic you may think, but seriously when folk in S Africa say that it is just a matter of time before it is your turn, I promise they are speaking the truth. Believe them.

My 12 year old daughter and I are survivors of a hijacking, how dare these bastards come onto my property and hold a gun to my daughters head. I am angry, you guys in Oz do not need to go through these traumatic and stressful times, counselling etc that we are going through before we can hopefully join you all in what sounds like "the good life".

We will be poor in Oz, but what the hell. We do NOT go anywhere at night, we do NOT go to restaurants, we do NOT go to movies and the list goes on. We are too scared to do anything, the kids go to school, hubby to work and that is it. Has anyone noticed the way some people are driving on our roads ? Do these !$#!! have licences ?

What type of life is this for my children ? This SUX, guys stay where you are in Oz, there is nothing worth risking your lives to see in S Africa, try to get your family out. DO NOT COME BACK.

Still waiting for our PR, applied Nov last year, job waiting for hubby in Canberra. Where are these visas ? I need to live again.

Cheers

[RoMar]

Where are these visas ? I need to live again

Hey Ready2go

Well said - I feel the same way - life here in South Africa gets more shocking by the day - how do you like the 54 % increase that Eskom has asked for on electricity?

RoMar

[Julie K]

I am new to this forum and I am in the early stages of planning to emigrate to Aus.

It will take me about 2 years of study and 1 year of preparation to make the move, as I am in the legal profession which is not the easiest of fields within which to emigrate.

I have never travelled abroad (save for visiting 3 african countries) and have no idea what the circumstances are like in Aus (or anywhere else in the world for that matter).

I have never thought of emigrating until about a month ago, I always said I would stay in SA and switch off the lights as the last person here! That has changed very drastically recently!

I hope this will motivate some people over there, wat op moedverloor se vlakte sit en wonder of hul moet terugkeer, om vas te byt.

I have a good education with 3 degrees, and I live in a town adjacent to Johannesburg. I know nobody in Aus and I have no family there. I earn a decent living these days after starting out with nothing, and we have been living comfortably for the last 2 years after going through a hell of a financial struggle to get on our feet.

I have reached the point where I am prepared to give up all of that for the opportunity to move to Aus.

I am scared Sh**less of the change as my wife has no tertiary qualifications and I will in all probability be the only breadwinner.

Just to explain how the crime situation here has deteriorated:

I live in an upper middleclass suburb, and I would not be classified as "rich" by any standard.

However, after having a burglary about a year ago, while we were asleep in our beds, despite an alarm system with armed response backup, our daily life sounds like this:

Our home has a 5 foot wall with electric fence surrounding it, as well as an automated gate.

We have a sophisticated alarm system with a radio link to an armed respone centre.

Both the electic fence and the alarm system have battery back-ups in the event of a power failure which happens often these days.

We have motion sensors in the garden overlooking our driveway and the windows of our bedrooms, as well as between the ceiling and the roof, which we always keep switched on with a remote control.

We have burglar bars on all the windows, and safety gates on all the exterior doors.

When I go to bed at night I close all the windows, bolt my garagedoors from the inside, lock all the outside doors (the gates are always locked) lock the door between the garagedoors and the house, as well as the door between the western side of the house and the kitchen.

Then I lock the safety gate between the living area and the passage and bedrooms, as well as the solid door adjacent to the safety gate.

Then I switch on the remainder of the motion sensors in the house, and take my firearm out of the safe and put it on my bedside cupboard, with a torch.

Then I place my mobile panic button on my bedside cupboard and pray that we will be safe for the night.

This I do every night of my life in Johannesburg.

If I sleep out my wife and children do the same, but then the kids sleep with my wife in the main bedroom and they also (additionally to the above) lock the safety gate and wooden door between the main bedroom and the passage, and my wife also activates the motion sensor in the passage, and puts her firearm on her bedside cupboard.

We sometimes feel like trapped animals!

Dont think I am arrogant for urging you to stay in Aus without having any idea what life there is like.

But do you want to live like we do?

I think not

Vasbyt en wag vir ons

Hi there

Get out of there as quick as you can! We have been here for 5 weeks and I have not felt so at home since I lived in my own home country Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe. I don't miss anything about SA except my sister and friends. I don't ever want to go back not even to see my friends. For the first time since Mandela was released I have a sense of future and freedom and security.

Two weeks after we got here my friend's brother was murdered in Jhb, his wife is on life support and their teenage son had to have a lung removed as a result of being shot through the chest.

People here who miss South Africa long for a place that died long ago. That South Africa doesn't exist anymore and never will.

I have grieved for my continent long enough. First I was driven from Zimbabwe, then South Africa. I want to look forward to the future and not the past. There is no future in Africa as far as I am concerned.

The sooner you can get out of there the happier you will be, not to mention the safety. It took us two years to get our visas and I wanted to leave SA 10 years ago but was never eligible for Oz until three years ago. All the waiting has been worth it so do whatever you have to do to secure your place under the sun down under.

Good luck

JulieK

[Ready2go]

Hi RoMar,

Electricity UP, property rates UP, petrol UP, every single thing UP !!! Service delivery DOWN the tubes. Roads a shambles, loadshedding a pain in the .... !! And people have the nerve to tell me to be positive. Positive about what ? That my family got through the night alive, that my kids make it home from school alive, that my husband got through the work day in one piece ?

I am so EXHAUSTED from living in constant fear, always looking over my shoulder, checking my surroundings, this is no way to live. I need to get a life - going for hikes in the nature reserves, having lazy braais and picnics at the dams, long walks on the beach, dinner and movies - these are such simple things but unattainable for my family as long as we are in South Africa.

You guys who have made it to Oz, enjoy your freedom !!! I long for mine.

Cheers

[Battiss]

Electricity UP, property rates UP, petrol UP, every single thing UP !!! Service delivery DOWN the tubes. Roads a shambles, loadshedding a pain in the .... !! And people have the nerve to tell me to be positive. Positive about what ? That my family got through the night alive, that my kids make it home from school alive, that my husband got through the work day in one piece ?

I am so EXHAUSTED from living in constant fear, always looking over my shoulder, checking my surroundings, this is no way to live. I need to get a life - going for hikes in the nature reserves, having lazy braais and picnics at the dams, long walks on the beach, dinner and movies - these are such simple things but unattainable for my family as long as we are in South Africa.

Hi Ready2go..

And the Upper Highway used to be a real little Sleepy Hollow.. boy how things have changed here - in such a short, short time!

We're in the same boat - don't even want to open the Highway Mail on a Wed anymore!

Take care

.Battiss.

[Bob]

In life, you'll always get some wanting to return to what they had.

We either long for the "good ol' days" or miss something really bad . . . . badly enough to make us do a whole life change in order to get it once more.

It's not such a big deal going back.

Sure, everyone is saying South Africa is going down a big black hole.

Some people will wonder . . . . and wonder . . . . and wonder . . . about South Africa all their lives.

Let them go back.

Let them come to a stage in their heads where they realise that the old Life is gone.

It's finished!

No amount of talking, no amount of persuasion, will deter some folk from finding some things out for themselves.

Let them come to realise in their own minds, to their own satisfaction, that the old South Africa is no more.

. . . . . then they will come back to Australia and throw themselves 101% into making Life here all the better, instead of always holding back with all they've got, like previously.