Embarrassed to be a South african?

[choog]

I find it interesting that many saffers on this forum really go to an effort to take-on/adapt to being an 'Aussie'.

I came to South africa as an Aussie, born & bred, and no way in hell am i, or would i be anything else but Australian, never. I would never, for example, put an avatar of something south african on this forum or any other, it would always be something Australian, and i find reading/looking at posts that it contains many little things that suggest your, ashamed, emabarrist, and seem to have no loyality to SA. Suggesting that you're been 'hurt' by your own country, or maybe felt it has let you down, and in a way, your showing disrespect towards it now that you've jumped ship.

I can understand going to live in another country (because i've been away for many years now) you make certain adaptions, but seems as though many of you have crossed the line which i find, i dont know..... not normal.

Whats your feeling towards SA, now that you have moved to another country.

[Spider]

i'm still here and i hate and everything me and my family have gone through here...its such a beautiful country but people are stuffing it up 6 love...

[Just B]

I don't speak for all in the forum, but it's not a question of being embarresed about being a South African but embracing the future. Yes in a way we have been let down when we have fear for our lives each waking moment of the day. But I know this, that when I get to Oz I intend on living in the moment and enjoying everything about it. You will find that most South Africans don't even identify with being South Africans, we are English, Afrikaaner, Zulu, Xhosa etc. We are such a mixed up nation I don't think we indentify with anything. To head for a country where people are patriotic will be a new experience for all of us.

My opinion, embrace that which you what to be, and if that's Australian (citerzenship) then so be it.

K&B

[Red]

When I step foot into Oz, I will make the best of it. I will embrace the culture and people as my own.

Why would I do anything else... If I want to make it work - then I must work. Work at adapting and embracing.

I cannot deny my heritage, yes I am South African BUT I will not fly the South African flag at a Wallaby game...

[Nilo]

South Africa is my herritage and I will never be ashamed of being South African.

However all said, I feel that it's important to accept Australia as my new home and become an Australian. Keeping one foot in South Africa and one foot in Australia will not do for us as I believe it will make life much more difficult. (keep opening old wounds)

All in all Australians are much more Proud of their country than South Africans. You have Australiaday, ANZAC day etc etc. We never remembered our soldiers that fought in wars like you do and are proud of!!! I think Australia cultivates the Ozzie oi oi !!! And I LOVE it!!

And YES our country failed us!! We believed and tried our best but it's "killing" us!!

[choog]

yes I am South African BUT I will not fly the South African flag at a Wallaby game...

A typical example of what i mean. I would attend a cricket match, or a union game a proudly display my aussie flag in South Africa, against any team.

So whats the differnce?

[Dugong]

Guess it depends on your terms. Your intention is to return to Aus, you identify with it and you are proud of your country!

I can only speak for myself and my situation. For me its not about right/wrong like/dislike, hurt/not its about change. And change always brings options. Status quo encourages stagnation, but change forces a person to re-evaluate not just the option being offered, but other options that may not have been a consideration during the status quo.

I don't like the option being offered for me, for my family and for my child (crime, poor education, broken economy etc etc). So, I can choose to adapt to a new culture in the country that I live in or I can choose another option which is to move and adapt to a new culture in another country Both of these require a big life change.

Based on my review and understanding of all the facts and how they pertain to me, I have chosen the second option. My intention is to never return to Africa, ever. The life I knew/know is disappearing and I now feel like an outsider in my own country.

For me, I think its less about hurt and more about not identifying with the land I grew up in. Some people have had horrific experiences though, and for them, maybe it will be different. There is a part of me that will always be South African, but once I move and take on life in Aus, I think that this part will become a diminished remembrance of nostalgic gesture, rather than an integral part of who I am. I am not saying that it didn’t contribute to shaping who I am, but over the next 30-50 years, I cannot live as an Australian trapped in a South African mind set. I need to live as an Australian, who was born in South Africa.

[Bob]

I can answer that one and I'm not even South African.

Historically, people from Britain and Europe have migrated to different parts of the world to start life off in new colonies.

Settlers migrating to Africa were the only ones different from those settling in America, Canada, Australia or New Zealand.

They were settling in a place already with an abundance of people . . . . . . native people however, and they provided the source of cheap labour that really got the farms, the towns, the new homes, the factories and mines off to a good start.

Without this source of cheap and ready labour, the new colonies would have been economically behind the other new colonies crying out for new settlers, e.g. Western Australia which had to resort to the importation of convict labour quite late in its development (1870s) simply because it couldn't get new settlers from Britain to come and take up land and jobs in the new fledgling colony back in the 1800s.

Later on, this source of cheap native labour would seek the franchise and want all the goods and services available to the settlers and their descendants.

In Australia, the franchise was extended to Aborigines in 1967, other places giving to their native peoples earlier.

With the population of White settlers so much in favour against the native Aboriginal population, this didn't threaten the lifestyles of White Australians.

There was no upset, no international outcry for Aborigines to get their franchise. It was all done quietly thro the ballot box.

The sitution was entirely different in South Africa and Zimbabwe (the former Rhodesia).

It became increasingly obvious in looking to colonies throughout Africa that achieved their independence from Britain and France in the late 50s and 60s, that the local native population had little appreciation for democracy. Corruption and nepotism was the order of the day from east to west across the whole of the African continent. Today we see Mugabe at work starving his people and Kenya with their latest elections as examples in 2008.

The White settlers below the Zambezi didn't feel safe or comfortable with their destiny in the hands of African leaders, so denied the franchise to the local native population.

This set white South Africans and Rhodesians up, in the eyes of the international press and TV, as oppressors to the "down trodden" native peoples.

Consequently, if you were white and South African or Rhodesian in the 60s, 70's, 80s and early 90s there was a stigma attached to where you came from.

This stigma is still borne by many white South Africans and old Rhodesians, even though the franchise came to the local native peoples almost 15 years ago.

Any Australian or New Zealander who criticises white South Africans for denying the franchise to the native people for so long should give the keys to the one and only family car to their 16 year old who has just learnt to drive and got his licence and see how it feels to put the destiny of something dear to you in the hands of someone inexperienced and incompetent at times.

I wonder if they'd be so willing??

Those who live in glass houses . . . . . . . .

[Red]

A typical example of what i mean. I would attend a cricket match, or a union game a proudly display my aussie flag in South Africa, against any team.

So whats the differnce?

Choog - if you were born in South Africa you might understand. I don't think Australia had any reason to fail you. So yes, of course you still support them...

[Mara]

Chooq - the difference is that you were raised in a country that gave a damn about you! NOT in a country that will always regard you as an interloper!

[Spider]

i guess it comes down to personal experience and choice, and i agree with everything everyone above is saying, with the common saying around we are South African but more than willing to become australians once there

[choog]

Fair enough what RED & MARA said.

Apologies for my mispelling of topic heading - Embarresed - I know that irratates some pople.

[zorba]

I find it interesting that many saffers on this forum really go to an effort to take-on/adapt to being an 'Aussie'.

I came to South africa as an Aussie, born & bred, and no way in hell am i, or would i be anything else but Australian, never. I would never, for example, put an avatar of something south african on this forum or any other, it would always be something Australian, and i find reading/looking at posts that it contains many little things that suggest your, ashamed, emabarrist, and seem to have no loyality to SA. Suggesting that you're been 'hurt' by your own country, or maybe felt it has let you down, and in a way, your showing disrespect towards it now that you've jumped ship.

I can understand going to live in another country (because i've been away for many years now) you make certain adaptions, but seems as though many of you have crossed the line which i find, i dont know..... not normal.

Whats your feeling towards SA, now that you have moved to another country.

Hi,

In reply to your comment/question:

I was born in South Africa and have NEVER been embarassed to say I am South African.

BUT, My country has failed me. My government has failed me. My government has embarassed ME.

So how can I remain loyal and patriotic to a country that couldn't care less if it's citizens are raped and murdered ? To a country where it is (almost) a requirement to have a criminal record to be a "leader" ? To a country that is rapidly becoming a cesspit of corruption ? To a country whose leaders tell me that if I don't like the crime I should "just leave" ?

My country is DEAD.

Yes, the God given beauty is still there and this I will always love and always remember. But the concept of a country with it's citizens all united towards a common purpose ? Sadly, it doesn't exist in Africa.

So bring on Australia.... Please adopt me so that I may honour your Flag and your National Anthem, pay your taxes and live in peace. Please allow me to contribute to a community and society that will appreciate my effort and my input. I will gladly respect and obey your laws, because my country of birth has none.

I hope this answers your question.

zorba

[Nilo]

Any Australian or New Zealander who criticises white South Africans for denying the franchise to the native people for so long should give the keys to the one and only family car to their 16 year old who has just learnt to drive and got his licence and see how it feels to put the destiny of something dear to you in the hands of someone inexperienced and incompetent at times.

BRAVO!! Bob, as per usual you've summed it up!! Correctly!!

[Stranded]

Hi All

Newbie and all, here comes my 2cents...

I have always been and will be until the day I set foot in Ausieland a Proud South African. I have supported them and become more than emotional in defending my country.

It gave me everything it could for as long as it could. It shaped me into the moral being I am.

I LOVE this country and it's people, the earth, the wind, the sky and the warm friendly faces of the people that live in it. It formed me and gave me roots and I will always be eternally thankful to it!

But, what angers me Is the people that live in this country, make use of the infrastructure and all that the people could give AND then they support another country!

THEREFOR despite all my love, once I set foot on that side, I have to give them my support.

So that is the best way for me to explain, why I would support Aus instead of SA when I am on that side.

Stranded

[g26130]

One of the things I brought with me to Australia is a book called Sparkling Achievements. It's a reminder that we South Africans are intelligent, hard working and creative... and that's nothing to be embarressed about. Many of the South Africans I have met here display those traits.

Having said that, I eat vegemite and cheese sandwiches, I put beetroot on my burger and I go surfing.

[choog]

I put beetroot on my burger

[Michelle M]

A typical example of what i mean. I would attend a cricket match, or a union game a proudly display my aussie flag in South Africa, against any team.

So whats the differnce?

I am very proudly South African and will wear OUR green and gold at a cricket or rugby game

I love Australia and am very grateful for all the opportunities and I try and adapt and fit in, but I will always be a South African. That's why, and this is only my opinion, I don't use the Aussie slang, like ta or mate or cya, because some way I feel that I haven't earned the right to use it - just yet anyway

Immigrating is a very difficult and emotional process and I think people do the best they can to make the transition as easy as possible. If that means giving up your SA identity and adapting an Aussie one, than that's your way of coping. But I will always braai and swim in my costume while enjoying a lekker kuier with some friends

There is one Aussie tradition/thing I will never get used to and that is putting egg on pizza

Just my 2c

Michelle

Edited February 13, 2008 by Michelle M

[Melrie]

Apologies for my mispelling of topic heading - Embarresed - I know that irratates some pople.

Embarrassed is the correct spelling choog

[Melrie]

Immigrating is a very difficult and emotional process and I think people do the best they can to make the transition as easy as possible.

This is true and in my humble opinion much more difficult if it was done as a way of survival almost and not just an "adventure" or "trying it out in another country". People that feel truly driven to emigrate I think will work harder and more enthusiastically to embrace the ways of their new country.

There is one Aussie tradition/thing I will never get used to and that is putting egg on pizza

Agree with you on this one

[Tobold]

There are several reasons I have no problem adopting Australian ways and trying to become an Australian:

• Australia has (or will, hopefully) graciously decided to let us move there. You can tell me about how they need skills, but I feel fortunate nonetheless. This country, on the other hand, has seen a minister suggest that people like me (worried about crime) leave. On the one hand is a country prepared to take me in, and school my child (properly too!), and the other a country that wants me to leave (or give up my job, at least).
  
• Growing up as an English speaker in Northern Transvaal, I was never that welcome here anyway. Many people forget, or choose to forget, but the old Afrikaner regime had no love for us "souties". I've felt like a stranger here for most of my life anyway. In my first week in Melbourne, I felt as though I'd come home. I don't know why. It must sound ridiculous, but it's true.
  
• My 8 year old son is likely to grow up as an Aussie. The sooner my wife and I "become" Aussies, the better. I don't want him to feel like an outsider there as well!
  

[DKH]

Hi All,

Hmmm, passionate responses above.

<<< I might be mistaken, but I don't see the criticism, only questions - I think it is fair to question each other. We are so used to having to defend ourselves that we maybe see criticism where it is not(?). >>>

I agree with the posts before, my opinion: It is about the mindset with which you go (fuelled by the reasons for going).

In short, some people go to other countries to experience it, work there, and stay there for whatever period, but never give up their original citizenship (and sports teams) because they don't need to. There are no real incentives, whether push or pull factors. Great, it happens everywhere.

Others immigrate lock-stock-and-barrel because they want to. They just want to. Great, it happens everywhere.

Then there are those who immigrate because they feel they 'have' to - they don't see another way. They leave all behind and take on a new life.

Most of us on this forum fall in this category - our country is no longer our country, from politics to sport (Oh forgot - the same thing now) to culture to ... every part of life. We are a passionate people that want to be entirely committed. Generally speaking South Africans are pretty much All-or-Nothing people.

I can't see myself committing to being an Ozzie half way, if I 'take' from Oz where it suits me, I will give where it suits Oz - whether in work, social, sport, etc.

I can only have one citizenship. I also have to be an example to my daughters and help them to become good, committed citizens.

I feel like a 'home-sick' tourist with an expired visa in SA. My home is where my dreams become reality!

Edited February 14, 2008 by DKH

[no longer interested]

. In my first week in Melbourne, I felt as though I'd come home. I don't know why. It must sound ridiculous, but it's true.

Hi TB I can honestly say what you have said and I have many many times

Choog let me put it this way in The US where we are currently residing most people cant identify my half arsed accent eg mix of English sa with some smattering of Aussie ie. all the ar sounds are a little softer and more "Aussie" and constantly ask if I am English to which I appear mortified and immediately with out fail say NO AUSTRALIAN .. no these folks must get confused because if you hear my young adult daughter see sounds acts like a true "John Williamson" bloody blue its not funny her Aussie accent is soo dinky di and strong.

When one of my dd friends parents had a cultural expo and needed someone well I was called upon to do a spekky presentation on Aus and Mate even though I am a bloody Blues supporter for the presentation and easier "identification" I with pride wore my Wallabies jumper resplendent with the Aussie crest and Qantas etc etc I also had the whole class of 20 something second graders plus parents singing the Aussie anthem at the end

So NO not embarrassed to be a EX S.African ..put it this way I would lay my life on the line for Aus no questions asked

Ps Can I come home now the US is not doing it for me

Edited February 14, 2008 by NorCalAussie

[Dax]

For 40 years South Africa was MY country, the only one that I knew and loved, I still have a certain affinity for the countrty, namely its sheer natural beauty as well as my family and friend that still live there.

I revered South Africa, i worked fo rit, i carried arms for it, an "Unpopular War" or no bloody unpopular war.

But when i believed that change would be for the good and prosperity for all, i was sadly disillusioned. Suddenly my country did not need me anymore, (for some reason South Africa seems not to have a need of white middle aged teacher/mathematicians anymore ).

I would have tried to hack it and still tried to do my bit, but my two young sons deserved better.

So, 12 years ago my wife and I voted with our feet, our skills and a spirit of "starting over."

I'm an Australian now.

Cheers,

Dax

[Oryx]

I've got a bit of a different view to some......

I do not think my country deserted me. I do not define my country as those who govern it and the circumstances they created. My love for RSA will always remain. And as circumstances and infrastructure goes down the drain I will cry for my country of birth.

And I will be grateful to any other country and its government who accept me to contribute to their wellbeing and who contribute to my wellbeing.

PS: I have seen those egg pizzas in RSA as well.

PPS: Tobold: I know how you feel. I am as Afrikaans as can be and moved to Durban for 5 years. It was hell!

The I moved to Pretoria for 4 years and it was better language wise, but as a Western province supporter I did not really fit in

I love the "souties". In primary school I was in a dual medium school. Break time was always a soccer war between the "souties" and the Afrikaans speaking! But come Saturday we united in our victories over Paarl Gym, Paarl Boys High, Rondebosch and Bishops rugby teams! I was in Paul Roos of course.