Are we being truthful and realistic..

[Guest Seoul Sister]

Hi all,

Being no stranger to international moves, I am well aware of the information, support and encouragement needed during the process. I am also, more importantly well aware of the difficulties, hardship and struggles involved with such a massive and often irreversible decision. After reading Dedrei’s husband’s comment recently, I have decided to share a concern I have had for a couple of months

Was worried for a while as everyone always talks about the positives about oz and never really about the negs. So people really need to get a balanced view of immigrating. Dis defnitief nie maanskyn en rose nie. Immigrasie is moeilik!!

Dedrei's husband

(Thanks very much for writing this, as I suspect you are not alone. I am very glad you had the courage to share this with us!)

In my personal opinion this forum does not provide realistic preparation for immigration. I am a fan of positive energy and supporting ppl, but I am not convinced that always focusing on the positives of immigration and your future country is such a healthy approach. Immigration is very tough. It is becoming a guest in someone else’s country, it is leaving everything you know behind and often starting at the bottom again and working your way up. I do not think that we should be discouraging ppl to take the leap, but I do feel that more of a balance is needed. Dedrei’s discrimination thread has been a great example of how careful ppl are to post anything negative on this forum, even tho’ allowing for negativity will probably help to balance the views a bit better.

We have had a number of new arrivals in Australia in the past couple of weeks : if more of our newly arrived could have posted about their challenges, struggles and hardships, we could have prepared more ppl in a realistic way for what settling in is really like. Even tho’ support during the application process (for instance) is nice to have, the time when our immigrants probably need our support the most is after the first couple of months/weeks of arrival. Here I am not referring to those still in the Honeymoon phase, but rather when cloud nine has become a full-blown Highveld thundercloud and reality has set in. I have seen very few complaints, discussions and tantrums from this group and this worries me, as I fear the overwhelming positivety might have left them feeling inadequate, lonely or isolated – intimidated /afraid of admitting that they are struggling, finding things tough or different from what they had expected.

Personally I have been struggling with many of our arrangements for our pending move to Australia. I haven’t mentioned any of this, as I have been too afraid of putting newbies off. In doing so I have distorted reality. *example* Many ppl have mentioned how thrilled they have been with the schools in Australia and how they have had good service from them. Sorry, I do not share your enthusiasm. I have emailed 8 different private schools. Of these 8 schools, only 3 have bothered to reply, two have indicated that they will not be accepting my boys, while one has been really helpful, and friendly, providing me with the school calendar, fees, school uniform information and posting me a prospectus. 1 of 8 in my book is nothing to be excited about. The Estate agents have been even worse. I have contacted 9 of them with queries on specific properties. One agency I have contacted on 3 separate occasions as they seem to cater for the areas and kind of houses we are interested in. A week after my last email, I received an email from them with the following reply :

The property you have enquired about has been leased, for other properties in the area look at www.xyz.com.au

And this is the only agency out of 9 which has even bothered to reply !

OMG !!!

There are many disadvantages to moving to Australia. I am not saying that it is a bad choice, but I am saying that I have not found it to be the utopia that ppl have been describing. I know no place is perfect and that every country has it’s pros and cons. Australia with its isolated geographic location, high cost of living, socialism, bugs/ spiders /mozzies/flies/cockroaches and poisonous snakes, questionable medical and dental care in isolated/rural areas, glass ceiling for career oriented women, etc is no exception to this.

In my opinion advising and supporting wannabe’s and others includes providing them with a balanced view. In an attempt to provide honest and realistic advice I intend to include both my positive and negative experiences from now on. (That's a promise, not a threat ! )

Love

Seoul Sister

[Guest colton]

Thanks for that I really agree with your point. As I said in one of my earlier posts on LSD trips alot of people think Australia is the land of milk and honey but no land is perfect. I understand we don't want to be negative but people will be better prepared when they are given the full facts, not only the rosey picture.

[DesertDaisy]

I think that because I have already had one move outside of SA, I am probably more than a little aware of how difficult it can be. Its extremely difficult to judge from this side of a computer screen as to what your life will be like.

My dh have discussed this in depth, and realise that the move we are making is going to be very hard. It is going to be different, and its going to be a big adjustment. But we have made up our minds that this is what is going to be best for the family in the long term.

Experience in the Middle East has taught us that the first year is the hardest, and that it ends up being the most expensive. It also takes time to get to know people and build up a circle of friends.

And, imho, it is that "circle of friends" more than ANYTHING else that makes you feel at home. In a way, you have to build a new "family" of sorts to fill in the gaps by the family you leave behind. My girls have only recently begun to be blessed by a series of ExpatAunties, who are filling in the role that my beloved sisters would have done. Its going to be hard to leave them behind. Again.

We are not going with the expectation that everything will land happily in our laps. Life doesn't work that way. As we've tried to explain it to the family - it will be like going home to South Africa, and rebuilding our lives. From scratch.

We expect delays and hassles with the visa process. We expect to battle with banks, housing and finding out where things are. We are expecting to miss the family all over again. But we are going with a determined attitude and a battleworn spirit.

We've done it once, and we'll do it again. Except this time, we'll be a lot more prepared.

Edited May 28, 2006 by DesertDaisy

[Harry]

We've lived through this issue on SACanada as well.

1. It IS important to to be positive about the move, after you have made up your mind and you know exactly why you are leaving SA and you know exactly why you have chosen Oz.

2. Having said that, my experience is that everyone starts hitting a psychological dip at around the 6-month point after arrival. That is roughly when:

a] the initial excitement is over

b] you now know what it costs to live there per month, and it is more than anyone suggested

c] you have found out what the job ACTUALLY is that you have been hired into...if you actually have one

d] you have discovered you have to pay cash for everything because you have no credit rating in the new country

e] you feel like you are "crawling on hands and knees begging for a new life" all the time

f] local friends are in short supply, as is useful advice without strings

g] the locals "See you coming" and try to "take an immigrant for a ride" all the time

i] your teenage kids are upset because they miss their "maatjies".

j] the veneer has come off the deal with your wife to keep your cool in going through all this.

k] at work you have to "eat up" c#*p from inexperienced kids who are now your boss.

The earlier folks do this thing in their lives, the better:

At 35 you already have trouble doing it because there is a house and kids

At 45 it is HELL hard because your SA House was paid off, you are senior in your job, and the kids are teenagers in high school...and you have at best 20 years to work yourself "up"again.

At 55 you basically forget about it, short of having lots of money or a VERY rewarding job offer.

So, this emigration/immigration thing is "not for kabouters". It is a tough process and folks need to understand that. They need to do their homework and understand that their standard of living is, without doubt, going to take a dip for at least a while, while they "get a new life". I explained that to my family before we left SA and it is exactly what happened.

At least those leaving SA now have the benefit of relaxed exchange measure and high property prices. Us older types lost money in bucket-loads leaving earlier, making us the only immigrants who moved to other countries and taking a DIP in standard of living in the process. All others went UP...e.g. the East Europeans and the Asians.

[Mara]

To Seoul Sister and all the others - CONGRATULATIONS I am so glad that honesty has at long last taken it's place.

Whilst we were on rainbownation, I tried a few times to 'tell it like it is' and the only thanks I got was to be shouted down and told to return to SA if I could not make it in Australia. Which was not the case, I was just trying to tell people that this was not nirvana! We emigrated when my husband and I were 44 years old and our two sons were 18 and 24. All I can say is it was hard, very hard, and the worst of it was finding out that you know nothing. We were pretty well seasoned travellers, but being holiday makers or on an lsd trip is a far cry from living out real life!

We gave up a lot in SA to make the move, had our own very successful engineering business, own home, large caravan, boat, vehicles, holidays four times a year, servants (blessing!) and there was no need to think about things before you decided to spend on your credit card! I worked mornings only, four days a week. This information is not to boast but purely to give you a comparison.

Although we could afford it, we went to NZ without an lsd trip. We decided that no amount of holiday in the country could ever prepare us for reality. That we had to go there with a positive attitude, at our age that we had burnt our bridges behind us, and that we just had to make it work, never mind how hard it may be.

Life was a learning curve. We both went into fulltime employment, and believe me, it took some getting used to, having to report to a boss again. We were fortunate, we were both in occupations that are in demand all over the world, so getting work was not a problem. It was an adjustment to get used to the very laid back lifestyle! Sometimes you would itch to give a little push - please just get on with it - and the answer you got was 'tomorrow is another day'. Well with time we adjusted, and once we had, found that you did not have to iron everything, you did not have to drive a flash car, it just had to get you from A to B, your child could get a student loan if you could not afford his uni fees, you did not have to take out a mortgage in order to pay for the medicine at the chemist that your doctor had prescribed. The only negatives that I really found, was the countryfiedness of NZ, no really decent shopping centres, outside of Auckland no major highway/freeway network, and some strange ideas on education, fortunately we did not have young children. Our first holiday to Australia convinced us this was where we wanted to be for the long term. Three years and NZ citizenship later we made the move to Brisbane.

My husband's idea, we are getting older, we need to be where the warmth is. He was immediately employed and three months later I made the move together, once again, with all our worldly goods and two pussycats. What a shock, I had come up against the Queensland prejudice! For somebody who has never gone for more than two interviews and be offered a job, all of a sudden I had gone for seventeen and had not even been short listed for any. Talk about feeling inadequate! I was devastated. Fortunately for me, I was in the supermarket with my son, speaking Afrikaans, when I got tapped on the shoulder and a gentleman introduced himself as a fellow SA who had been there six years. We got to know each other later that day, he had immediately invited us for a braai! He also restored my faith in myself when he explained to me that Queenslanders don't like anybody who is not a Queenslander, that you will not have a problem for a job if you are in a high demand - short supply category, but being in the finance field like I am, they would first employ a Queenslander if one applied, then another Australian, then a Kiwi and only then somebody with a strange accent. Fortunately for me, six months after we arrived in Brisbane, my husband was transferred to Melbourne, and guess what, I had a job lined up before I even arrived in Melbourne. I had to go through four jobs though before I settled down in the fifth one, where I have been for five years now. So yes, life is tough, but mostly, in time things tend to work themselves out and you move on.

There is one area though that never changes - YOU WILL MISS YOUR FAMILY - every birthday, every birth, every christening, every death, every Christmas, every day! You may say, oh well not us, we were not close, OK, good luck, let us see how you go. You tell yourself, but I am just a telephone call away, yes, but a telephone cannot transport you to their side in time of need, either yours or theirs! This was and is the toughest thing that I still struggle with today, and we have been gone thirteen years.

My husband went on a ten day trip to NZ, just to remove funds out of SA. On his first day there, he met a NZ couple, he is Maori and she is English, they insisted he stay with them and not go to a hotel. Once he returned to SA they kept in touch by telephone and when our visa's were granted they once again insisted that we stay with them when we arrive. He was working so she arrived at the airport to collect us. I was greeted with a single long stemmed red rose "just to say welcome to NZ - may you be very happy here". I could not help it, tears just rolled down my cheeks. She gave me a huge hug and said that if there was ever anything I needed or wanted to know, she was just as far away as the nearest telephone. She took us home and we stayed with them for three weeks, whilst we found our feet, rented a home, bought a car, enrolled our son in university, etc, etc. When we were ready to leave I 'fished' from them both wanting to know if there was anything they wanted that we could buy them as a gift to say a huge thank you! He sat us down and told us he wanted to explain the Maori way to us. You do not give to receive, you always help your fellow man when he is down, you open your home to those in need, you help where you can to make another persons journey easier. It will be returned to you tenfold. That is what he has done, he does not want or need any reward for it. All that he asks is that we go ahead and do the same for any fellow SA's that we may be able to assist. His words hit home, and we have been doing all we can since then, both in NZ and now in Australia to make our fellow SA's pathway easier.

My apologies if I have bored you, that was not my intention.

Edited May 28, 2006 by Mara

[Danie]

Hi,

I have been thinking about the post and the possible reply I could add, had a couple of ideas in my head and played with a few thoughts this morning...

I agree with SS, we only tell/speak about the nice things on the forums. Truth behold, I have PM a couple of new people giving some info and inviting them to ask more questions. And most of the time I try to tell it as I have experience it which include some of the negative or not so nice stuff. And we can't talk away the fact that is is more expensive to live in Aus, so why not tell them?

I think that we try to live the "excitement" as long as possible and don't want to see the negative because we have lived the negative 24/7 in SA. And maybe that is not wrong, but it create a warp impression of live over here and I think it is not fair to the people wanting to come to Aus.

I am not negative about Aus or its people, but as Harry said -

1. It IS important to to be positive about the move, after you have made up your mind and you know exactly why you are leaving SA and you know exactly why you have chosen Oz.

AS for me: I know why I have left SA and know that life in a new place with out family and friend will be tough! And that why you must make friends here as soon as possible, build up a support network for those "rainy days".

I want to be here ! ! But I can tell you about some things to look out for or that have happened to me or other Saffies.

This is as any place on earth - has got it good and bad things! Live the good things to the fullest and the bad won't be so..bad..

D

[Riekie]

Hi SS,

Thanks for that well needed post! You are right, ppl sometimes don't want to share their "negative" experiences for a variety of reasons: don't want to put ppl off from emigrating, don't want to create the impression that things did not work out for you, so that family can spill the "we told you so" beans, don't think that anyone else is feeling the same, don't want to come across as spoiled and ungrateful etc....

From my own perspective I can agree that emigrating to Australia was as much traumatic as it was exhilarating! And yes, it IS difficult! All is not sunshine & roses and we had a few battles to fight in the process. For us, it was important to keep our eye on the end result and the reason for emigrating in the first place (in that, were able to remain sane - well, mostly ...!!)

As far as the schools situation goes: it is a shame that you had that experience but I also note that you got that poor reaction from private schools. (SS, Did you also try contacting some of the public schools - it would be interesting to see if you had the same lack of interest from them). My school experience was vastly different from SS's, but then again, I did not contact any private schools prior to our emigrating or once we arrived. I did email a few public schools in the areas which we were considering at that stage and the response was welcoming and positive. (Just for the record: I tried to contact one of the private schools here a few weeks ago on behalf of SS, as I thought that maybe the fact that she was not yet in Australia was the reason for not responding, so I "pretended" it was for myself. I'm still waiting....!! )

As far as Estate Agents go, I must say, I had more or less the same experience as SS before we were in Aus, but once here, absolutely nor problem to get a willing agent to take me around. (Maybe that was a: you're-not-in-Australia-and-I-won't-waste-my-time-on-something-which-will-not-result-in-money-in-my-pocket thing.....??) Did anyone else have the same experience? Getting no joy when still outside Aus vs Falling over their feet to help you once you're here? (Sorry SS, don't want to hijack your thread - maybe I should post this as a question on a new thread)

There's a whole list of things to mention of the difficult part of emigrating but there's a much longer list of reasons for staying here. For the purpose of this post, I will stick to the difficulty list. This is from what I've experienced:

Finding a home: the houses here are NOT the same as in RSA! Most are not brick and everything is flimsy and not made to last. If you close a tap to tight, you can turn off the head completely! Getting up from the loo, the base moves! In general, the plumbing sucks! Almost all the taps leak! The walls being made of "weetbix" causes many frustrations. You cannot hang anything exactly where you want to - you have to check for wooden beams and if you're lucky to find one close to the place where you want to drill the hole, you're most likely not to have a beam close enough or far enough away to drill the other hole! If what you hang weighs more than 'n tub of margarine, it will most likely come down at some stage anyway. We've had our indoor washing line come down completely - 4 bath towels did the trick. No matter where in the house you are, you can hear everything - if you have the TV on in the lounge, you can also hear the kid's music in their room! It drives me crazy! The rooms are generally much smaller that the houses in RSA. Fitting all your stuff into it, is mission impossible! Show me the RSA family who does not have a garage full of stuff in storage..... The houses in Aus are either VERY old Federation type (which I absolutely love), VERY new American style and then you get the looks-like-crap in-between houses. We live in one of those. (Luckily the owner renovated the interior, so it is actually lovely inside.) This is not where I want to spend the next few years but until I have PR, this is just what I'll have to do. There is NOTHING you can (are allowed to) do to make the place onto something you could live with.

Shopping: Apart from not finding the products you are used to, it is a nightmare to navigate your way through rows and rows of stuff you don't know, with a trolley with it's own mind. Even the way in which products were arranged in RSA supermarkets does not exist. I'm yet to see the logic behind putting the toiletries in the same isle as the frozen foods!! After 18 months (and many shopping disasters later) I can say that it STILL frustrates me, but now at least, I know where to go, what to buy and what it would taste like.

Kids & School: I had no problem finding a school for my child and was amazed by the way in which she was almost treated like royalty! No stone was left unturned to accommodate her, make her feel welcome, assist her in the change and extra attention given to get her up to date and at peak performance. BUT for her, it was still an academic battle and at times I really felt guilty for "doing this" to her. She was very brave and no challenge was to big, but I could see her suffer her way back to the level at which she performed in RSA. She started to doubt her abilities and even thought she was stupid. I had to pitch in and help her get to grips with everything and it did pay off in the end. She is a straight A student and does not have to stand back for anyone. The road was hard, but the reward was worth it.

Making Friends: This is the HARDEST part of emigrating! I had a wonderful, fabulous friend in RSA and I have now come to terms with the fact that I will not have that kind of friendship ever again. Meeting and getting to know people is not the hard part (it IS difficult, but still achievable, depending on your type of character, whether you're outgoing or an introvert etc.) but making a TRUE FRIEND, a sole-mate has proved to be impossible for me!

I could go on forever about the little things, but these were the major ones. I could maybe just mention a few without elaborating:

The endless rules in Aus is something to get used to (still can't understand why most of them even exists!) A general lack of spontaneity - everyone is so controlled and "plastic"... (I think I should start a thread on this one...)

Preconceived Aussie ideas about most things in life.

Absolute lack of discipline of the Aussie kids and with that, the total lack of respect from Aussie teenagers!

Cost of living! It is outrageous!

The "the government owes me" attitude - the Aussies don't appreciate what they have!!!

Doing my own washing & cleaning - it's hard work!!

To conclude: Emigrating is not for sissies!! BUT even with all the difficulties we've experienced - and are still at times experiencing - I would not have done it any different. I've grown as a person in the process and our little family have an unbreakable bond because off everything we had to go through together. I wake up in the morning with a song in my heart! Bring it on!!

[Harry]

Folks,

I have to tell you that one does no-one a favour by sketching matters in the destination country as all moonshine and roses. This business is very tough on people and the sooner they realise it and the sooner they move their a$$es to get out of SA the better.

If one wants to just live in the present, or one has no kids and is very mobile, then it is probably easier to stay in SA. If you have kids, you have to look deep into your own eyes in the mirror. That is when the things become clear and you decide to leave because of the future.

However, setting up life from scratch in that new country is very tough, once you are through the "honeymoon period". It is better to realise this up front. We have seen a couple of cases where people moved country on, what might best be described as, a whim or an emotional glitch. They were quite mobile and went back just as quickly when they hit problems in their new country. They never were emigration candidates in the first place.

[Ajay]

Hmmmm.... I had to think long and hard before replying to this one, because I have a slightly different view, and I don’t want to open a can of worms! But I’ve always spoken my mind in the past…

As much as I think what SS / Mara etc have to say is relevant and valuable, I also think that we need to acknowledge that each person’s experience is going to be different, and not everyone struggles with this move. I have never tried to sugar coat anything, nor have I tried to paint things rosier than they are. But the simple fact is that, for me, the process has been a genuine breeze – really. Now, (and here’s where it gets interesting), my initial reaction when I read this thread was one of guilt! I actually felt guilty for not having had it harder! And that’s why I felt compelled to reply.

I came here fully prepared and with both my eyes WIDE open. I was also lucky enough to have a job to come to, and I realise that the value of that alone cannot be underestimated. I had no problem getting a house, no problem finding a school, no problem opening a bank account – everything just went smoothly for me. I don’t think this necessarily is anything to do with my planning ability – just maybe some good luck?

As much as I don’t think it is right to try and ‘up-sell’ the immigration process, neither do I think that we’ve all had negative experiences and are just afraid to come clean. I think that our own experience is unique, and it is influenced by too many external factors (like why we make the decision, the circumstances we lived under in SA, financial position, age, family etc etc) for there to be a nice, clean, anaesthetised example of the immigration process for us to put out there. If we all just tell it like it is, then the overall picture should be reflective of the general things that one can expect. I have certainly only ever told the whole truth as to how I have felt about my move. I miss my family, I miss my friends and I know that this will never change. I’ve invested in some decent PC and telecoms equipment at home, and now chat to my sister in SA in the evening and get to see her and the kids whenever I want to. I know, of course, that this isn’t the same thing as actually being there, but it’s better than writing a letter!

What I would caution is that things are much easier to manage from here. When I contacted estate agents and schools whilst still in SA, it was a waste of time. Once I was here, I contacted an agent, and things happened quickly. The same went for the school – it was easy once I was here. My only gripe is that I couldn’t get a credit card when I wanted one. And my hubby would probably argue that this is a ood thing

I honestly can’t see why anyone would deliberately try to mislead anyone about their experience? I can’t imagine what the pay-off would be? And if anyone on this forum is saying that things were easy when they weren’t – don’t do it!! Think about the people that are relying on your advice and insight. By the same token, if your experience was a good one (like mine) then don’t feel obliged to make up stories or inventing dramas so as to fit in with other people’s general ideas about how you should feel. Let’s all adhere to Danie’s tagline – Tell it like it is!

Cheers

Ajay

[Mara]

To Ajay, I am really happy for you that things went so smoothly for you, you are very fortunate. My contact over the years with the SA's that we assisted, I never met one which had it as easy as what you describe. As you say, everybody experiences life differently!

I just have to add though, on the two occassions when I tried to say on rainbownation that moving was tough and not a bed of roses, I was attacked from left field, so much so, that I decided to let them be and I virtually stopped posting. If I could not say it like it is, I would rather not say it at all.

When I describe things that we have come across, I do not just speak for myself, but also for families that we assisted, quite a number over the years.

Riekie, I think your post is spot on. We were very fortunate with the housing situation. Somebody advised me to try and find a new house to rent, that is what I did, and lived in a palace. We then built our own and invested in some good insulation which made the rooms far more sound proof. The first building experience was such a learning curve. We then sold this house, moved to the other side of the city, rented again, fortunately again a new home, and built our present home. This time we could use all of the info we had gleened and learnt from building the first house into the second. Building was a breeze, everything fitted, we left nothing to chance, pictures could be hung where we wanted them and in general we are very happy with it. If anybody wants details of what to do BEFORE entering into a contract with a builder, email me, I would be happy to give some advice.

I think my final say in this matter should be :-

Would I do it again, knowing what I do now, ABSOLUTELY, IN A HEART BEAT - I am always extremely happy when I put my feet back on Australian soil after being away.

[Ajay]

Hi,

Mara - Yep - you're right - I was very fortunate. I've never figured out quite why things went so smoothly for me, but am just grateful that they did

With regards to your comment about honest words of caution attracting attacks on Rainbow Nation, I really hope that the membership and visitors to this forum are wise enough to recognise that all the advice and anecdotal stories that we share is really coming from the heart and is only intended to assist others.

I would be really bitterly disappointed if honest advice and guidance were attacked and I hope that we would all be quick to jump in and assist if we saw this happen.

Riekie - you posting was probably more well rounded than mine (no suprise there ) with lots more detailed information. Thanks for that! We were lucky enough (again!) to get a full brick house - probably one of the only ones in the area, but I remember your stories of woe with trying to hang pictures.

Cheers again, and best of luck to everyone out there busy with this process

Ajay

[Michelle]

Another thing to remember is that Australia is a huge country with a number of states which all operate very differently. I am sure we all had our own unique experiences and the levels of service we received differs. In Western Australia most of the homes are brick homes and we have found the quality of building to be very good. The houses are smaller here also I will agree, but it all depends on the age of the house.

We also had a tough time setting up meetings with employment and estate agencies before we got here, but after we got here we were helped. Some agencies were good and other not so good, same as anywhere I suppose. However most of the people we dealth with were at least relatively competent in the areas they are working in, which was not always true in South Africa. The service we are receiving here is definitely not perfect but is a lot better than we were used to (generally) so I will not be complaining too much.

I agree with Riekie though, one day these bloody shopping trollies might kill me!!!

Edited May 29, 2006 by Michelle

[Riekie]

Ajay, I must say, we also had it very easy in comparison. Hubby had a job, the company sponsored us, paid for our container (well, half of it), paid for our first month's accommodation, a relocation agent to assist us in finding a house, schools etc (waste of money if you ask me - she did zip and charged the company a fortune!) Everything worked out just wonderful! (And I can understand your feelings of guilt for having it so easy - I felt the same when I heard other people's stories: arriving here with 5 suitcases, camping in an empty house, using the yellow pages for a dining room table etc. etc.)

For the rest of it, I told it like it is (even if maybe I did not mention all of it before). But if you look at it, what am I complaining about?! Was anything I experienced worse than anything I would have in good old RSA? You cannot move country and then expect it to have all the nice stuff about your "old" country and NO downside. We realised that things would not be the same, that there will be difficulties to overcome and that it will take time to adjust before we could call it home. Maybe that is why the difficult part of it - for me - was part of the "package" and not something to "complain" about. People should be realistic when they emigrate.

[Dreamcatcher]

Hi there all,

I agree, and disagree with some of the things written here. I have always tried to be truthful, and tell things like they are. As Ajay said, we also came over with our eyes wide open, and expected it to be very difficult.

Some of our friends "hopped on the bus" as we started our immigration process, and they were very enthusiastic. I told them several times: It is NOT easy, and DON'T blame me if things don't work out for you, you make your own decisions. They had some trouble, and I really beat myself up for ever telling them about it, but they have worked it out. They live happily in Auckland now.

We found the estate agents, and car salesmen very unhelpfull, they made us feel like worms, and there was no follow-up from their side. Eventually we discovered people that were willing to help us, and now I will tell all new people in town to go directly to them, and not to go through the agony we did.

Sadly, the most trouble we had with our moving process were things we are trying to settle in SA. After six months and many (stupid) excuses, our house is still not sold, although we signed everything before leaving! eE were wrongly billed by our removal company, and try getting something out of them from here! SA Home Affairs made a mistake on my daughters' passport, and now the person responsible doesn't work there anymore

It seems to me that once people know you are leaving the country, they become scavengers. They want to buy your furniture for next to nothing, or even worse, want it for free. People promise to pay you outstanding debts, and you never hear from them again. Your bank and attorney, and agent etc. tell you all kind of bull$hit and expect you to believe it.

Yes I am in a murderous mood.

Thanks for listening!

Greetings

Donderwolk Dreamy

[Riekie]

It seems to me that once people know you are leaving the country, they become scavengers. They want to buy your furniture for next to nothing, or even worse, want it for free.

Hear Hear!! We had that same experience!! (Won't elaborate - don't want to change the subject.... )

[Cindylou]

Hey guys, thanx so much for these posts!

I have no idea what we will experience when we (finally) get to Aus, but some family members moved over like "ducks to water" and others really struggled. (Now that they have settled not one of them regrets the move, hard as it was both before leaving and after arriving.) But if things aren't going great, if you need to vent, you should be able to do so.

I think the important thing is to be able to share both negative and positive experiences and not have to worry about getting thumped by people who disagree with you (as stated on other threads, let's play the ball not the player!)

And, yes, those trolleys....how on earth do you shop on your own? The trolleys are like a team sport, all hands required on deck.

C'lou

[ExASP]

Hello All

Like Ajay I must admit that we had it easy. My husband had a job but I didnt and the Sponsor didnt help with anything. Power and water, Telstra, the estate agents the bank... we didnt have one problem. We managed to buy a car and get it registered and financed in two days. The school I sent my kids to is a public school and they settled in immidiately. I found a job within two weeks and I got the first one I applied for.

We got a home loan within two months of landing here and bought a unit within four. We got invited to so many parties in that first month that we couldnt keep up.

And so on. So far everything has gone well for us and we are very grateful for that.

But I do also agree that shopping for groceries is difficult...that the houses are flimsy and small, and I do miss my family very much. Oh yes and the constant cleaning and washing and ironing.....

However When I do get asked on if it is easy or not..I answer truthfully and always with the sentence that I can say how it will be for everyone else, but that is how it is for me...so far....

[Guest Seoul Sister]

... if you need to vent, you should be able to do so.

I think the important thing is to be able to share both negative and positive experiences and not have to worry about getting thumped by people who disagree with you

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this and for the fantastic response ! I have really enjoyed hearing about the different experiences you have had. There were a few tears with Mara's thread and then again some laughter with Riekie's, hehehe and my head was nodding sometimes as I was reading through some of the others. Thanks to everyone. I have come to realize a big factor that influences our expectations is what we are used to. As I have been researching the USA and Oz at the same time, I have also been comparing the two and when it comes to service *sigh* let's be honest, Oz has a looooong way to go ! I have resolved myself to the fact that I will only be able to effectively organize housing and schools once we are in Oz. Thanks to those who have confirmed this for me. You have all added something valuable here and I think C'Lou sums the point of this thread up very nicely. Riekie, you have mentioned quite a few really interesting things, I hope you will be making a thread on those, as I am looking forward to reading all about it !!

Thanks again (I posted this and actually prepared to have my ribs cracked, I was pleasantly surprised by the open and kind reception, even by those who didn't agree)

Love

Seoul Sister

[NZHigh]

My apologies if I have bored you, that was not my intention.

Excellent post Mara.

[Queensland Girl]

Also had to think long and hard about my answer.

SCHOOLS

I was fortunate enough to come to Australia in August (we arrived on the 27th of December).I had 4 schools on my list and went to ALL FOUR personally. Had two children enrolled and third on a waiting list when I left at the end of the week. After that they were amazing and even had book lists completed and Uniform requests per e-mail. My waiting-list child was accommodated in November.

RENTAL HOMES

My sister-in-law moved to the Gold Coast from Canberra three years ago. She knew in which public school she wanted her son to be but she had to live in the correct "catchment area". She had NO RESPONSE to telephone/e mail with local estate agents. I stepped in. I registered with four agencies(personally) and then started chasing houses. Would phone agent Monday morning-get new rental list-rush to inspect house-chase back to agency-and have someone sign up 10 minutes before me. I lost three times! Fourth one I was lucky-and I got it as the others wanting it walked in the door. A great rental home,in the "correct" area ,at the right price can go within hours. Maybe Melbourne is the same?

SETTING UP A BUSINESS

What can I say? That we have been to hell and back? Is it because it is Australia? Dont think so- We didnt do our homework-and paid big time. I can tell everyone on this forum that if we had anything in South Africa to return to, the first two years in Australia is when we probably would have done it. Luckily- we had sold everything and we HAD to make this work. And we did. I look back now and cannot believe that we suvived it-AND have turned it around. Just know that for 2 years after our arrival here my husband and I worked 18 hour days, that I nearly had a nervous breakdown, and we spent many a night sleepless -wondering "What have we done?"

Would I do it again(eg start in new country today)? No-havent got the physical energy.

Was I prepared?No-nothing can prepare you.

Was it right decision for us? YES!

Are we better,stronger,more humble people?Most definitely.

Do I think Australia is Nirvana? No

Enough gut wrenching from me today.

[Mara]

NZ High, thanks for the compliment. From time to time I find myself in Auckland visiting my son, perhaps the next time we can catch up for a cup of coffee?

[NZHigh]

Sure thing. Let me know next time you hop, skip and jump the ditch.

[Guest Seoul Sister]

Hi QLD girl,

Thanks so much for your open and honest response. I am glad you have shared your experiences with us, as I was starting to think that it will be plain sailing with my whole HOUSING dilemma once I land in Oz... Good thing I know better now !!

Thanks, I am sure you have opened a couple of eyes !

Love

SS

[Guest Jules]

Hi SS

Yep, be prepared for a battle with regards to looking for housing it is very much a case of first come first served. We had the same experience as QLD girl. If I could just give you some advice, get a couple of character references ready too before you arrive. I think there is a thread about that somewhere on the forum, started by Dedrei if I am not mistaken. We were lucky that we know the local accountant here in our little dorpie Jimboomba and he wrote a character reference for us. We were fortunate to finally secure 2 houses for rental on the strength of his letter.

I can pretty much agree that the e-mail system is unsuccesful when trying from outside Australia. We sent countless e-mails from South Africa to various places and received very little in return.

Good Luck!

Julie

[Jurg]

Hi All,

“Ye, Mate, I told ye so! Don’t emigrate; you’re making a huge mistake. Two years and you’re back”…….. Whatalotta $&^&*&. Who-ever uttered these words has spoken like a true Moron.

Countrymen, lend me your ears……

First I have to state that I have absolutely no idea why I keep coming up for you guys across the ocean. Maybe it’s because I feel that you guys are the ones who, actually, need the sympathy more than those of us who decided to stay “behind” or maybe it’s just me trying to convince myself that emigrating is indeed a good option. Who knows?

Yes, all of us go places with certain expectations. When we go on holiday, for example, we expect a great place to stay, lovely weather and everything to be “hunky dory”. And if it doesn’t work out, as expected, we tend to be disappointed, grumpy and just feel like packing up and going home. That’s human, trust me. Been there, done that, got two T-shirts. But guess what, you can’t…. you can’t just pack up and go “home” (SA), you are at home, remember? So no matter how things are, you’ve got to make it work. It’s a choice (and not an easy one at that) you have made and until you except your current conditions as being your “own”, you will have to keep in mind the reason why the choice to emigrate was made otherwise you will never come to grips with how things are, and most probably always will be in Australia…..it’s just a matter of getting used to.

If your reason for leaving was “because” then that’s why things frustrate you so much….”because” and you’ll never find the way to acceptance of the little “irritations” that “sour” your day. If your reason, how-ever, was to make a better life for your family and yourself, for example, these “irritations” won’t be much of a concern for very long as you’ve got a purpose, something to strive towards.

I heard a good saying once “A man with a dream will not be denied”. You guys have dreams, live them…

Yes, Australia is not the land of milk and honey, but do you think SA is? And if so, why did you leave? Take a pen and paper and do what Benjamin Franklin did; compare the positives with the negatives. You’ll be astounded.

Don’t get me wrong, all of us appreciate the honesty, (getting it out is good for the soul anyway) and those of us, who consider emigrating, need to know these things – we have expectations after all. Info like this is invaluable and will prevent anyone from making a choice, of such magnitude, “blind-folded” and will help them keep an open mind to what’s up and what’s not…..the good, the bad and the ugly. And that, as you so rightly state, is the overall rationale behind this web-site: providing crucial information. With this discussion I believe you have come another hundred miles closer to achieving what this site is all about. Again, Congratulations.

Enjoy