LSD Advice to Perth and Adelaide

[FAB]

My wife and I are planning a LSD to Perth and Adelaide 26 Oct to 4 Nov. We are expecting to be allocated a CO within the next 3 months (PR 136 lodged in March 07) and plan (pending we are happy with what we see on the LSD) to arrive with the family around Jan 09. We live in Pretoria and have three daughters (2, 4, 6yrs)

We'll have 8 nights to devide between Perth and Adelaide. I have a few questions which I would appreciate some comments on.

1. I am doing property development (alone and in partnerships) here in SA (Pretoria, Jhb and Cape Town - Projects include student flats in Pretoria (www.laplace.co.za) , industrial park in Jhb and flats in Cape Town) and would want to do the same in Aus. Are there any South Africans involved in the industry who come across development opportunities (town planners, architects, quantity surveyors, other developers looking for JV partnerships, etc) from time to time. As you'll know it normally takes ages from identifying the opportunity to project completion (rezoning, plans approval, professional team, tenders, finance, etc), so I would prefer to be quite a stretch down the line when I finally arrive. However, for that to happen, it will probably be best to find a partner in Aus.

1.1 Does anyone know of people involved in the development industry (residential, commercial or industrial) that I can contact and maybe arrange a meeting while we're there to discuss the property industry and opportunities in Aus as wel as what the general expectations over the next few years are?

1.2 Where are the development "hotspots" - areas that the government has committed t be developed over a period of time and where there is a spatial development framework regarding which rights one can apply for? It seems housing is constantly in short supply.

2. For the purpose of this trip we are not too interested to look in detail at specific areas or schools at the moment, as that will be determined by the opportunities. Is it thus realistic to devide the time equally between the two cities, or does it make more sense to have 5 nights in Perth and 3 in Adelaide? ( I have read some reviews on Adelaide and would typically want to drive around and explore a bit). Is Perth so much bigger that it warrants an extra night?

3. Anyone have personal recommendations on decent places where to stay (not backpackers)? I think it would be nice to stay by the sea.

3.1 Adelaide: Glenelg seems quite nice. I suspect Adelaide is small enough that wherever you stay it is still relative accessible to reach most places (like Adelaide Hills, South beaches, McLaren Vale, City, etc)?

A travel agent here offers a package where onew stays in the Mercure Grosvenor Hotel 125 North Terrace, but after a bit of research on the net, there seems to be many bad reviews.

3.2 Perth: The travel agent suggested the Sullivans Hotel in 166 Mounts Bay Rd, Perth - reviews are good, and sounds like it is close to the Swan river cruise departure point. Anything recommendable on the beach?

4. I have always wondered what the water temperatures in the different areas were like. If you can't give specific temperatures, it might be interesting to hear with which coastal town in South Africa the various Australian cities compare (for swimming). It doesn't sound like there are any waves in the Adelaide area (maybe south beaches). How about Perth? It should have quite a few beaches with nice waves? Can one swim throughout the year or are there factors (other than winter) that would prevent swimming (like the jelly fish I heard about)?

5. Which airlines offer flights between Perth and Adelaide? I have found Quantas and Jetstar. Anyone else?

6. Is it sensible to bring my laptop along to find information on the Internet or are there enough Internet cafes readily available? It seems a bit of a hassle to make sure it doesn't get stolen and it's in any case too heavy to carry along on public transport. I will have my Palm pda there with which I should be able to access the Internet via my 3G cellphone (it worked in the UK, but took some time to get the correct settings). I also read somewhere on thisforum about free wireless hotspots around Adelaide. Any of these in Perth?

7. Any reputable car hire recommendations? Do most also include 200kms / day like here? Is it recommendable to hire a car for the full period, or only two or three days per city and use public transport for the rest? We would like to experience the public transport system, but also want the flexibility to travel around where we choose.

Enough for now. Sorry about the bucketful of questions. Hope I get a few answered.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

FAB.

[Mara]

5. Internal flights also with Virgin Blue.

6. Bring your laptop.

Sorry, those are the only questios on which I could assist.

[Guest Bronwyn]

Wow FAB - I want to help but not sure where to start.

We live in ADL (moved from Pretoria in Dec 2006) and so I can try and give you some ideas about here. Honestly, I don't think you are allowing enough time at all. Can't you come for a bit longer? Just my opinion, but you have a lot to get through.

1) We did our LSD in Perth, ADL & Melbourne, and we had the first 3 days in Perth. I totally missed Perth due to jetlag. Don't underestimate it. Taking a medication called 'Melatonin' made by Muscle Science International may help you. It helps change your sleep patterns. You can't give it to the kids, though. Are they coming with you?

2) In terms of accomodation, we were very impressed with the 'Pacific International Apartments' on Hindmarsh Square here (not the Frome Street ones). Try to get internet deals, they can be a lot cheaper. We paid about half the quoted rate by scouring the net for deals there, and then got a free (lucky) upgrade when we arrived. I also discovered that I got extra airmiles on my SAA Voyager Card because they are part of the 'Golden Tulip' group. You can try this site to get an idea http://www.wotif.com/. Depending on how fussy you are, I wouldn't go lower than 3 or 3,5 stars. Apartments are good because you save a lot by making a few meals in-house. I'm sorry I can't give you any personal recommendations by the sea...

3) Try to get Voyager miles if you are registered by lining up your car rental, hotel, and flights with partners. It all helps, even if you only get enough points to upgrade next time...

4) I have done property finance (in banks) for years, and I was really surprised at how differently they build over here. There is very little residential development being done with bricks. Most is board and steel frameworks, almost like kit houses. You should check out the 'New Developments' section on www. realestate.com.au and you will see what I mean. There are some very big, established players here in ADL like Devine Homes, Sterling Homes, and the upmarket Medallion Homes.

5) There is an initiative to bring brickies back into the trades here, they are trying to encourage new brickwork apprentices because there is a huge shortage. Maybe you can google that.

6) The funny thing I have discovered is that the value is 70% in the land here. You can buy a block of land in a good area with a really bad old house on it for, say $400k, flatten the house and build another house for, say $300k. Then your property is worth $600k (!?). It's like you write off the original house value, just to get your hands on the block.

7) Plots are called blocks. Bonds are called Mortgages, and deposits are called bonds. There is no such thing as an erf. Title Deeds are just called Titles. Transfer is called settlement. It is a minefield. You may have to re-learn a few things, I know I am. I have never felt so stupid in my life.

8) Property hotspots - maybe you can set up a meeting with some Government people while you are here. Estate agents and letting agents are notorious for not taking any notice of you whatsoever. If you don't have firm meetings set up before you come, you may battle to get hold of anyone. Maybe you can start with these guys as it sounds as if you will be self-employed: http://www.business-sa.com/Default.aspx?p=67

It is the new South Australian Business support website. There are links to to Chamber of Commerce, etc. There are also people seeking JV's that can advertise on there. It is going to be hard to pin anyone down, but you never know. You might have to narrow your search and be specific. You can read publications like 'Australian Property Investor' - Here is the link:- http://www.apimagazine.com.au/ This will give you a lot of info about average rentals, housing shortages, rates issues, all sorts.

9) Compare flights on Webjet here: http://www.webjet.com.au/flights/gscfau.ht...CFRXzhgodWCay4g

I am curious as to what Visa you are on? We are on a 163 (State Sponsored business).

As you can probably tell, I love the subject of property, so would like to meet you when you are here to chat more, if you have the time.

Best of luck, Bronwyn

PS. The sea is very tame. Waves to your knees. But very pleasant for the kids.

PPS. You can always rent a cheaper car from the airport, from a no-name brand car hire place, say $35 per day. Your more expensive thing might be parking. Make sure you know if parking is included if you are staying in the city.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Bronwyn

[MannyT]

Hi Fab

My thoughts on some of your questions as follows:

- Great accommodation in Adelaide/Glenelg- by the sea; Apartments available at Oaks Pier Plaza Glenelg

16 Holdfast Promenade, Glenelg,SA,5045.Google "Oaks Pier Plaza Glenelg" or vist their national website www.theoaksgroup.com.au.You can book online. For specials deals you can also try " www.needtoescape.com or www.yeego.com/Adelaide Hotels. A friend of mine spent four days at the Oaks Pier Plaza Glenelg in June and loved it, he booked online directly through the Oaks Group website.Restaurants/pubs swimming pool etc, four and a half stars.

- In Adelaide I would suggest that you hire a car for all three/four days if you want to visit the Barossa, Maclarenvale and the Adelaide Hills while you are here.Cheaper car hire brands like Thrifty and Koala are OK.

- In Perth if you choose to catch the ferry from Perth To Freemantle (recommended) and catch the train back to Perth you probably would not need a car for that day.

- Bring your laptop with you. You can plug in at the Pier Plaza( wireless) most cafes in the city have (wireless) access.Easier to communicate and to do research while you are travelling if you have easy access to your own computer.

- I will sent you a PM with the the name and email address of a mate of mine (South African) who is in real estate in Adelaide and has done a lot of research on property development in Adelaide. You will find that the property development environment here is quite a lot different to the RSA(lots of red tape and frustrating regulations- but that is what entrepeneurs are expected to manage.....isn't it..??

- You can't see much in three or four days but you can cretainly get a good feel of the place (Perth or Adelaide). If however you want to speak and/or see local government people regarding property develpoment then you would probably need a little more time in each city.

Have fun planning your trip.

See you in Adelaide.

regards

Manny

Edited September 21, 2007 by MannyT

[bollamakiesie]

3. Anyone have personal recommendations on decent places where to stay (not backpackers)? I think it would be nice to stay by the sea.

3.2 Perth: The travel agent suggested the Sullivans Hotel in 166 Mounts Bay Rd, Perth - reviews are good, and sounds like it is close to the Swan river cruise departure point. Anything recommendable on the beach?

4. I have always wondered what the water temperatures in the different areas were like. If you can't give specific temperatures, it might be interesting to hear with which coastal town in South Africa the various Australian cities compare (for swimming). It doesn't sound like there are any waves in the Adelaide area (maybe south beaches). How about Perth? It should have quite a few beaches with nice waves? Can one swim throughout the year or are there factors (other than winter) that would prevent swimming (like the jelly fish I heard about)?

Some comments on Perth: Perth beaches are in general a lot nicer than the Adelaide ones. Scarborough Beach has good waves. The water is a bit too cold for my liking but it doesn't seem to bother the locals. There are lots of accommodation options in Scarborough as well. There is also a car hire company (reasonably good rates I think) right there. Check out www.scarboro.com.au for surf conditions. Unless you have particular business/appointments I wouldn't recommend staying in the city. http://www.discoverwest.com.au/western_aus...ough_beach.html has some accommodation options - Seashells apartments are right on the beach front.

[DesV]

Perth

I have stayed at Sullivans, great place if you want to visit Kings Park, they have mountain bikes they lend to residents, it is a older style family run type of hotel.

I would reccomend you look at the Regal apartments www.regalapartments.com.au while it is not near the sea it is very central, close to the city and being an apartment you can cook your own meals etc which is a big money saver, have covered parking etc.

If you really whant to say at sea then try Cottesloe beach chalets www.cottesloebeachchalets.com.au or sorrento beach resort www.sorrentobeach.com.au

Car hire - avoid the mai ones situated at Airport try these

Ace Rent a car - from $22 per day www.acerent.com.au

Bayswater car rental From $15 per day tel +61 8 9325 1000

Northside rentals from $18 per day www.northsiderentals.com.au

Conditions will obviously apply to these rate usually include 100km per day.

It is worthwhile to bring your laptop most hotels etc have connections and it beats sitting in a internet caffe that is full of students.

Lots of building etc happening in Perth

Hope this helps

If you have any more questions etc feel free to PM me

Des V

[FAB]

Thank you all for responding so promptly.

I am currently absorbing all the great info I received and are finalising the plans for 26 Oct to 4 Nov. Sounds like we'll get better rates if we book accommodation much closer to the time. (I hope it doesn't fall in a holiday period - please let me know if it does)

Let me know if there is anyone that would be interested to have a brief chat while we're there then we'll see if we can arrange something. We would be very interested to talk to people who have gone through the emmigration process, especially those who have small kids, but we would welcome any help from you guys.

All your comments are highly appreciated.

Kind regards,

FAB

PS. For those interested, today is a public holiday here in South Africa - and has also been officially declared national Braai day.

[Jan Stoof]

My wife and I are planning a LSD to Perth and Adelaide 26 Oct to 4 Nov. We are expecting to be allocated a CO within the next 3 months (PR 136 lodged in March 07) and plan (pending we are happy with what we see on the LSD) to arrive with the family around Jan 09. We live in Pretoria and have three daughters (2, 4, 6yrs)

We'll have 8 nights to devide between Perth and Adelaide. I have a few questions which I would appreciate some comments on.

1. I am doing property development (alone and in partnerships) here in SA (Pretoria, Jhb and Cape Town - Projects include student flats in Pretoria (www.laplace.co.za) , industrial park in Jhb and flats in Cape Town) and would want to do the same in Aus. Are there any South Africans involved in the industry who come across development opportunities (town planners, architects, quantity surveyors, other developers looking for JV partnerships, etc) from time to time. As you'll know it normally takes ages from identifying the opportunity to project completion (rezoning, plans approval, professional team, tenders, finance, etc), so I would prefer to be quite a stretch down the line when I finally arrive. However, for that to happen, it will probably be best to find a partner in Aus.

1.1 Does anyone know of people involved in the development industry (residential, commercial or industrial) that I can contact and maybe arrange a meeting while we're there to discuss the property industry and opportunities in Aus as wel as what the general expectations over the next few years are?

1.2 Where are the development "hotspots" - areas that the government has committed t be developed over a period of time and where there is a spatial development framework regarding which rights one can apply for? It seems housing is constantly in short supply.

2. For the purpose of this trip we are not too interested to look in detail at specific areas or schools at the moment, as that will be determined by the opportunities. Is it thus realistic to devide the time equally between the two cities, or does it make more sense to have 5 nights in Perth and 3 in Adelaide? ( I have read some reviews on Adelaide and would typically want to drive around and explore a bit). Is Perth so much bigger that it warrants an extra night?

3. Anyone have personal recommendations on decent places where to stay (not backpackers)? I think it would be nice to stay by the sea.

3.1 Adelaide: Glenelg seems quite nice. I suspect Adelaide is small enough that wherever you stay it is still relative accessible to reach most places (like Adelaide Hills, South beaches, McLaren Vale, City, etc)?

A travel agent here offers a package where onew stays in the Mercure Grosvenor Hotel 125 North Terrace, but after a bit of research on the net, there seems to be many bad reviews.

3.2 Perth: The travel agent suggested the Sullivans Hotel in 166 Mounts Bay Rd, Perth - reviews are good, and sounds like it is close to the Swan river cruise departure point. Anything recommendable on the beach?

4. I have always wondered what the water temperatures in the different areas were like. If you can't give specific temperatures, it might be interesting to hear with which coastal town in South Africa the various Australian cities compare (for swimming). It doesn't sound like there are any waves in the Adelaide area (maybe south beaches). How about Perth? It should have quite a few beaches with nice waves? Can one swim throughout the year or are there factors (other than winter) that would prevent swimming (like the jelly fish I heard about)?

5. Which airlines offer flights between Perth and Adelaide? I have found Quantas and Jetstar. Anyone else?

6. Is it sensible to bring my laptop along to find information on the Internet or are there enough Internet cafes readily available? It seems a bit of a hassle to make sure it doesn't get stolen and it's in any case too heavy to carry along on public transport. I will have my Palm pda there with which I should be able to access the Internet via my 3G cellphone (it worked in the UK, but took some time to get the correct settings). I also read somewhere on thisforum about free wireless hotspots around Adelaide. Any of these in Perth?

7. Any reputable car hire recommendations? Do most also include 200kms / day like here? Is it recommendable to hire a car for the full period, or only two or three days per city and use public transport for the rest? We would like to experience the public transport system, but also want the flexibility to travel around where we choose.

Enough for now. Sorry about the bucketful of questions. Hope I get a few answered.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

FAB.

G'day mate, how ye going. Hello, how are you. Dag ou maat, hoe gaan dit.

Daar het ek jou nou in Ozzie, Ingels en Afrikaans gegroet. Ek skryf in Afrikaans omdat ek dit moet oefen want hier verleer 'n ou baie gou. Ek meng en slang al lekker.

Net 'n paar dinge wat dalk vir jou van waarde kan wees.

Oom Jetlag gaan jou size maak. Jy gaan 'n dag of twee verloor. Jy sal geen besigheid wil doen nie. Die vlieg tussen Perth en Adelaide kos jou ook 'n dag, heen en weer.

As jy in Perth land, koop vir jou 'n "street directory" oppie lughawe. Kos so 0ngeveer $25. Koop vir jou 'n GPS van so $500. Baie goed om tyd te bespaar en goed om die huweliks bande te behou. Jy kan hom ook dan in Adelaide gebruik. In Adelaide koop jy ook weer 'n directory.

Los die kinders by die huis vir so 'n blits besoek.

Maak defnitiewe afsprake. Hier stap jy nie nie net by 'n ou se kantoor in om te gesels nie. Hulle drink graag koffie en dit beperk jou tyd per afspraak. Drank innie dag is uit, want hulle drink en bestuur nie.

Ontwikkelings geleenthede is hier wel, maar dit gaan jou tyd neem om die ropes te leer. Romp slomp maak jou klaar en die perde vat eeue om te besluit. Waar jy in Pretoria iemand êrens geken het wat dinge vir jou by die boukantoor te bespoedig, het jy dit nie hier nie.

Sekere dinge verstom my egter nog steeds. My dogter het nou die dag by die poskantoor haar aansoek vir haar Ozzie paspoort ingedien. Twee dae later was hy by die huis afgelewer. Ek kry die papiere vir ons PR. Gaan in stad toe. 'n Halfuur later is my visa in my paspoort. Sonder enige bribes.

Ek het nou die dag 'n ou ontmoet wat al 'n jaar hier rondkyk (in Adelaide) en al 'n miljoen Rand spandeer het en nog nêrens gekom het nie. Ek was nie vêr agter hom nie. Onthou jou Randjies word met ten minste 6 gedeel. Alles kos vir jou 6 maal duurder totdat jy in $ verdien.

O ja. Huur vir jou 'n lekker vet 6. Hulle is almal outomaties en 'n droom om mee te ry. Jy sal nie kan jaag nie nie want die officers vat nie bribes en nonsense nie. Maar darem, dit is lekker om daai perde te hoor runnik.

Kontak vir Annette hier in Adelaide. Haar man, Marius, is 'n argitek en kan jou goeie raad gee.

Laaste ding. Koop vir jou 'n liter KWV op Jan Smuts en bring hom vir my. HAha. Groete.