Christenskap in OZ

[bananagirl]

Hallo almal

Ek wil graag 'n vraag vra oor 'n onderwerp wat my na aan die hart is. Soos ek oor OZ oplees kan ek agterkom dat kerk nie juis 'n prioriteit is nie. Daar is ook soveel ander gelowe in die land. Ek weet dat daar baie christene in SA is wat maar net sê hulle is christene. Ten minste is dit nie die "uit" ding om 'n christen te wees nie. Ek worry nie eintlik oor myself nie, want ek weet al waar ek met God staan. Ek wonder maar net oor my kinders. As hulle sou grootword in 'n land waar hulle as "vreemd" beskou word omdat hulle kerk toe gaan en christene is, dan gaan dit mos nie"cool" wees vir hulle nie. Stel 'n mens jou kinders nie in gevaar deur hulle aan hierdie dinge bloot te stel nie? Die feit dat min mense in Oz trou en baie dwelms gebruik, stel jy nie jou kind bloot aan morele verval nie....oeps .....nou trap ek dalk op tone.

Terwyl ek hierdie post tik het ek eintlik reeds die antwoord en dit is dat wanneer jy jou kinders aan God opdra in gebed, jy moet vertrou dat Hy jou gebede sal beantwoord.

Ek was nog nooit in OZ nie en lewer maar net kommentaar op hoorsê. Stel my gerus reg as ek verkeerd is. Julle opinies en ook ondervinding met julle eie kinders sal hoog op prys gestel word.

Net nog een ding: Die belangrikste ding wat jy as ouer moet doen is om seker te maak dat jou kind die geleentheid het om 'n verhouding met Jesus Christus te hê.

[Rison]

Bananagirl,

Al die bekommernisse wat jy meld is reeds teenwoordig in RSA, maar nie altyd so ooglopend nie. Ek dink mens moet maar net sorg dat jy gereeld met jou kinders praat oor alles en hulp, raad en leiding gee. Met die Internet en ander bronne van inligting is daar min wat vir kinders deesdae weggesteek kan word. Ek glo dat baiese opvoeding tog deurkom wanneer nodig en mens moet maar vertou dat die kinders wel uit ons voorbeeld sal sien wat reg en verkeerd is. Dit bied egter 'n groot uitdagings aan Ouer en Kind. Christenskap is besig om weer veld te wen in Australie en lyk my daar is 'n nuwe soeke na geestelike verryking. Hier is ook baie goeie, beginselvaste Aussies. Ek dink net ons was bederf in RSA met die noue kring van geloof en Kerk. Hier is dinge miskien meer "oop", wat 'n uitdagings tot mens kan rig. Net soos ons Taal kan niemand jou persoonlike Geloof van jou wegvat nie. Ek hoop ek druk myself reg uit.

[Dax]

Ek dink hoe nader jy en jou kinders aanmekaar leef hoe minder is die kanse dat jou kinders sal afdwaal, mar dis nie altyd 'n uitgemaakte saak nie. Een van ons eie kinders is soms baie geneigd tot die meer permissiewe opset. Dit kos geduld, kommunikasie en gebed.

Dis waar dat proporsioneel minder Aussies kerkgangers is, maar die ding is dat baie Saffers gaan kerk toe uit gewoonte, terwyl die Aussies wat jy Sondae in 'n kerk sien daar is omdat hulle daar WIL wees.

Groete,

Dax

[kangaroo]

Hi Bananagirl

Ek is self ook nog nie in Oz nie, was nog net op 'n vinnige LSD (look, see, decide) trip daar, maar ek weet wat jy bedoel - ek het ook gehoor van die jeug se 'verval', die dwelms etc.

My opinie persoonlik is dat mens nie 'n Christen kan wees in isolasie nie. Wat ek bedoel is, in watter land jy ookal is, gaan daar vir 'n feit beide positiewe en negatiewe invloede wees. RSA het net soveel ellende en weird dinge aan die gang onder die jeug soos enige ander land - dis miskien net minder sigbaar omdat die media oor die algemeen fokus op RSA se ander probleme.

Die 'trick' glo ek is om jouself en jou kinders moreel en spiritueel sterk te maak, sodat jy en hulle ten volle ingelig is van alles wat aangaan, maar besef dat net jyself (en hulle self) die besluit kan neem wat 'reg' is vir hulle uit 'n Christelike oogpunt.

Ek dink nie 'n mens moet ooit poog om die wêreld en al sy fasette (beide goed en sleg) vir jou kinders 'weg te steek' nie - kennis en ingeligtheid is uiters belangrik. Mens kan tog nie verwag jy maak iemand in 'n morele vakuum groot en dan gaan daardie persoon later die aanslae van die lewe kan hanteer nie.

My ouers is 'n goeie voorbeeld - hulle het ons van kleins af blootgstel aan beide God, Jesus, die kerk, die spirituele, maar hulle het ons deeglik ingelig ook oor 'die wêreld daar buite' (sonder om dit so te stel) en nooit is daar vir ons gesê 'moenie dit doen nie, moenie dat doen nie' maar die kommunikasie-kanale was altyd oop - ons kon oor enigiets praat en redeneer met - en enigiets vra aan - ons ouers. As gevolg daarvan weet ons altwee vandag dat nie die kerk, die samelewing of iemand anders verantwoordelik is vir ons eie spiritual wellbeing en morele keuses nie, maar onsself.

Deur morele verval te sien, word mens nie noodwendig self moreel afvallig nie. Christene kan die 'difference' wees en die verskil maak. Onthou ons leef in hierdie wêreld, maar hoef nie van hierdie wêreld te wees nie. Mens moet vir jou kinders wys en vertel (sonder om te 'preek') wat gebeur as God nie daar is in mense se lewens nie - die feit dat hulle dit sien, gaan hul perspektief verbreed, hulle kan daaruit leer en besef hoe 'cool' dit juis is om anders te lewe - om God en spiritualiteit die remote control van jou lewe te gee!

Daarom stem ek so saam met Rison en Dax - dit hang grootliks van die ouer en kind verhouding af. Almal onderskat die rol van ouers - dis die belangrikste 'werksposisie' wat enigiemand ooit sal beklee. Mense is so vinnig om die skool, die kerk, die samelewing te blameer vir kinders wat deurmekaar raak met dwelms etc. maar die feit (vir my) is dat oop kommunikasie saam met liefde, humor en aandag in die ouerhuis seker die meeste bydra tot 'n kind en mens se ontwikkeling en die morele keuses wat gemaak word.

Daar is wel 'n sterk Christelike inslag in Australië, al word dit nie afgedwing of openlik aangehang deur die regering nie - daar is verskeie Oz kerke wat ongelooflike wonderlike dinge doen en ek glo daar is in elke stad 'n hele paar opsies!

So na alles maak dit nie regtig saak in watter stad jy is nie, dit maak nie saak watter land jy kies nie - die belangrikste is om te weet (en aan jou kinders oor te dra) dat ten spyte van die realiteit dat daar altyd negatiewe dinge gaan wees, jy en hulle die keuse het om die positiewe te behou en uit te leef ongeag wat die wêreld om jou/julle ooglopend bepaal. En ja, dit is verseker nie altyd eenvoudig nie, en soms 'n lang en selfs pynlike proses, maar wie't gesê dis maklik? Christenskap, soos die lewe, is 'n eindelose reis - na binne en buite. Soos CS Lewis opgemerk het: "Relying on God has to begin all over again every day as if nothing had yet been done."

[Bianca S]

jip, Kangaroo. net soos jy dit stel, het ons dit ervaar hier in UK, die huis/gesin is die belangrikste, hou die fondamente daar sterk, en bou aan verhouding met kind, elke dag, stel 'n voorbeeld met Christenskap.

Mens besef hoe belangrik jou gesin/spesiale band is, veral as jy oorsee is, dis werklik 'n TOETS vir jou geloof en band as gesin. Baie mense is na 'n paar jaar nader aan mekaar.... maar ongelukkig dryf baie ook uit mekaar, en baie keer is die verskil geloof en volharding.

As daar 'krakies' is in die gesin/huwelik, word dit tien maal vergroot in die emigrasie-proses! Dis belangrik om dit eerste uit te stryk en DAN eers die lang pad aan te pak. Dis werklik 'n emosionele emigrasie sowel as fisies, asook kultuur, verhoudings.

Gelukkig weet ons God gaan oral met ons!

Mens ontmoet oral Christene, en ons taak is groot oor die hele wereld. Jy sal jou versterking deur mede Christene ook kry in Oz, maar sal dit moet gaan SOEK, dis net net daar soos in SA, waarmee jy grootgeword het nie. Jy moet werklik EERSTE jouself beskikbaar stel, eers gee en dan innerlike versterking ontvang. Dis belangrik om daardie eerste tree te gee...EN JOUSELF TE GEE AAN DIE CHRISTEN GEMEENSKAP IN JOU OMGEWING.... sodra julle land, want mens het die mede-gelowiges soveel meer nodig in daardie eerste maande.

Ons is so opgewonde - die SA gemeente brei ongelooflik uit. Ons het 'n selgroep naby ons in die Noorde, maar oor 2 weke het ons ons eerste gemeente byeenkoms. Daar is baie gemeentes in die suide en Ierland, maar nog nie amptelik hierbo nie. Dis wonderlik om ook met ander Suid Afrikaners bymekaar te kom as Christene. Ons is lidmate vd Metodiste hier, NG in SA, maar dis goed as mens bv een sondag 'n maand kan sing in Afrikaans. Dis maar hoe mens leer kommunikeer het in jou geloof in die eerste plek.

Ons sien baie uit om almal te ontmoet daar in S Oz of Perth omgewing (nog nie besluit...)

Sterkte aan almal

[Springbok]

Stel 'n mens jou kinders nie in gevaar deur hulle aan hierdie dinge bloot te stel nie? Die feit dat min mense in Oz trou en baie dwelms gebruik, stel jy nie jou kind bloot aan morele verval nie....

"Teach the commandments diligently to your children and talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk, when you lie down and when you rise up" ~ Deuteronomy 6:7

[Springbok]

Stel 'n mens jou kinders nie in gevaar deur hulle aan hierdie dinge bloot te stel nie? Die feit dat min mense in Oz trou en baie dwelms gebruik, stel jy nie jou kind bloot aan morele verval nie....

"Teach the commandments diligently to your children and talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk, when you lie down and when you rise up" ~ Deuteronomy 6:7

[bananagirl]

Aan almal wat geantwoord het. BAIE Dankie. 'n Mens weet eintlik meeste van hierdie dinge maar moet soms so bietjie daaraan herinner word. Julle is baie wys en ek gaan nog baie raad vra by julle. My kinders is nog baie klein so ek is nog 'n groentjie-ma.

Springbok: en almal wat wil : het julle al die hele Deut 6 gelees? Baie "toevallig" dat ek dit laas week ook gelees het en verwonderd gestaan het daaroor.

Nog replys is welkom....

[celeste]

"Teach the commandments diligently to your children and talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk, when you lie down and when you rise up" ~ Deuteronomy 6:7

Hi b-girl

Shew, I'm struggling to read the Afrikaans threads here!! Having to call up my memory from school and guess at a few words here and there.

Yes, I know what you mean about the drugs (I'm an ex-druggie myself saved only by the power of our Lord Jesus). My best friend here in SA was very quick to tell me that she had some old friends who went to OZ and their kids landed up on drugs therefore going to oz was perhaps not a wise choice. But now, she has softened to the idea because I think she realises that if one can, one needs to make plans to leave SA as things like AA will not be getting any better in the near future, if ever.

But I do think that there are also risks here, more and more there are kids taking drugs in our schools and if a kid wants to try it he will no matter which country he is living in.

As kangaroo quoted the scripture it's up to us to train them up daily in the way that they should go.

The world is full of wickness and we are called to be salt and light.

[Bianca S]

As kangaroo quoted the scripture it's up to us to train them up daily in the way that they should go.

The world is full of wickness and we are called to be salt and light.

Hi Lyse

Thanks for posting this

[TMB]

Hi all

My feeling about drug use in Oz is one of shock when i arrived. I heard moms talking about their drug use and where they get it and all that goes with it. My first thought was what have we done, bring our little girl here. It took me 1 year too find the right church and it is full to the max every Sunday and they have 3 plus services a Sunday.Yes I am a happy clappy and proud of it I started looking for Christain schools and there are plenty of them in Perth. Here I am in a panic and I get a call from my brother in South Africa and he told me his best friend had just died, she was only 18 years old ,from a overdose from buying it from the Nigerains in Springs . If you know anything about Springs, it is bad really bad with the drugs and the prostitutes. My point is that there are many Christain schools and Christian on a missions in Perth like i never seen before, it blows me away to see them out there fighting the good fight. Please don't be scared to come to Australia too live, it is wonderful. The moms that i spoke about do not know Jesus christ, but i am slowly showing them who Christ is and his love. Thanks for reading this. Stand up and be counted.

From Mel

Edited March 3, 2007 by TMB

[celeste]

Hi all

My feeling about drug use in Oz is one of shock when i arrived. I heard moms talking about their drug use and where they get it and all that goes with it. My first thought was what have we done, bring our little girl here. It took me 1 year too find the right church and it is full to the max every Sunday and they have 3 plus services a Sunday.Yes I am a happy clappy and proud of it I started looking for Christain schools and there are plenty of them in Perth. Here I am in a panic and I get a call from my brother in South Africa and he told me his best friend had just died, she was only 18 years old ,from a overdose from buying it from the Nigerains in Springs . If you know anything about Springs, it is bad really bad with the drugs and the prostitutes. My point is that there are many Christain schools and Christian on a missions in Perth like i never seen before, it blows me away to see them out there fighting the good fight. Please don't be scared to come to Australia too live, it is wonderful. The moms that i spoke about do not know Jesus christ, but i am slowly showing them who Christ is and his love. Thanks for reading this. Stand up and be counted.

From Mel

Hi TMB

Thanks for this information. I'm terribly sorry to hear about your friend's child. Devastating. Those dealers are murderers. We have the same huge problem in Durban with them and they are also moving into some of the suburbs.

it actually encourages me to think that perhaps it's not just my mission to move to Aus but maybe the Lord IS guiding as I suspect and hope. What I'm saying is that as one who was on drugs as a teen/ young adult myself I may by the Grace of our Lord somehow have compassion for and be in a position to minister to folk there - the whole world is a mission field isn't it?

Guy's please help me - how did you eventually make peace with the deicsion to leave? It's really hard to know if it is the will of God???? Any advice as I need to decide this weekend on the 138 Visa which seems our best choice. I'm 34 in Oct so can't delay this any longer.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Edited March 3, 2007 by lyse

[Bob]

Some people are naturally "curious", some rebellious, some more compliant, others inquisitive with all the things going on in life around them.

Some kids, unfortunately, find unattractive company and end up eventually getting into the same scene as their mates.

It says in the Good Book . . . . "bring a child up in the ways of God and it will not depart from them when it's older" (standard revised Australian version) . . . . so?

What about when they are neither a kid, nor yet "old"?

Out of a family of 5 or 6 kids, it's not improbable to assume one or two of them will go off the rails for a while.

They bring more heart-ache and anxiety to Mum and Dad than the rest of the kids put together, but when they are old enough to do their own thing, you just have to let them go and let them go in the knowledge that you still love them despite whatever scene they get themselves into.

Hopefully, after realising that life is even harder "off" the rails, they'll come to their senses and keep to a more straight and narrow (and ultimately easier) path for the rest of their lives.

I've found people who have been pretty wild and restless as kids develop often into great adults, having a deeper understanding of where a lot of other kids are coming from and aren't quick to judge nor reject when they see what's going on.

Australia isn't heaven.

Migrating across the oceans doesn't mean that you have arrived at the "Promised Land" with no more challenges in life and no more headaches and heartaches with your kids.

It does mean that your kids will have more opportunity to do whatever they want to make of their lives, even if they want to drive into deep water. They are still free to do that when they grow up.

Personally, I've tried to attend church each Sunday and introduce my three kids into an understanding of what a personal trust in Jesus is about and hoping that they will make a network of friends who have a faith also in Christ.

I insisted they attend also until they came of an age around 16, to start doing things for themselves. It's really up to them at that stage if they want to go on with Christ.

My 24 year old son is going thro a time of searching at the moment, having friends who are not church goers and he's realising there is something lacking in his life.

My youngest daughter is now in the eastern States and seeks Christian friends on campus.

She was at the Gay Mardi Gras in Sydney yesterday (Saturday) . . . . . not my idea of fun, but she needs to see it for what it is and have an understanding of what homosexuals are about.

She went with an American girl studying at her Univesity this year.

I offered to pay $70 for her to go to a Christian camp next weekend, hoping she'll meet wholesome kids there and start to form a network of supportive and loving friends from among them.

As a dad, I can only pray for it to come about nowadays.

[Bianca S]

Thanks Bob for this.

Hope you don't mind if I mail you one day for advice...

we all worry a lot about children , and with 3 of my own, I can just pray and try to expose them to Christian friends and community to try to show them the way...

[Annette]

Bananagirl, my reply was going to be sort of a combination of what Springbok and Bob have already said, so I won't repeat it. What I do want to add very quickly though is that we have found that leaving SA has been the best thing that could have happened in terms of our faith and our closeness as a family. As was mentioned above, there is (or was when we left) a huge complacency among Christians in SA. No effort was required, no demands made, no questions asked ... we have found it hugely refreshing and enlightening to have to make the effort, stand out from the crowd, dare to be different. In the UK, we had to start to really think about what our faith means, question what we basically took for granted and analyse what we knew and believed in order to be able to explain to the many who openly doubt and ridicule our commitment to the Lord. My daughter once said to me that she liked the fact that she was "different" to the other kids who didn't go to church. I almost fell over with surprise! One is always told that the one thing kids really want is to fit in, but I wonder if sometimes they are quite thankful for the "opt out clause" that our Christian lifestyle and morals give them when their friends want to follow the path of least resistance...

I can honestly say that we have seen a huge difference in attitude towards Christians since we moved the Aus. Although not that many people attend church regularly, there is certainly a lot of tolerance towards anyone who does choose to live this life. My kids both mention that they are no longer ridiculed or openly bullied because we are churchgoers, as they were in the UK. When they mention that they are going to church or youth group, they say that their non-Christian friends will say things like "Oh, good on ya!" or things like that. So, it is seen as generally admirable instead of idiotic. Of course, for someone who comes straight from SA instead of via the UK like we did, it will look like things are more "loose and immoral" than there. Believe me, as others have said, the drug problem is not that much worse (if at all) than in SA. My mom worked in a Drug Rehab centre for a year and is still actively involved in Drug Rehab in SA. You will be amazed at the stories she tells. And yes, it is just hidden much better over there and no talked about as much. Also keep in mind that even addiction to pain and sleep medication is regarded as drug dependency, so ask youself how many people you know who pop a pill or two (or even half) every night to get them through the "stressful times", who would be the very same people who are outraged at the "moral decline and rampant drug abuse" that goes on around them ( no doubt while simultaneously sucking on a cigarette!).

I've wandered off the topic a bit, so I'll get back to it: To answer your question - There are many many vibrant and active Christian churches around here. The options are myriad and you will be sure to find a home for your faith. There's even Afrikaans church services twice a month in Adelaide which is a nice way to worship in your own language as well as a bit of a social get-together with other Christian South Africans. Your kids will probably be in contact with a wide range of different kids from different backgrounds and with different beliefs and ideas about right and wrong. That in my opinion is a very, very good thing. It's up to you to make sure they are equipped with the Armour they need to tackle the world out there. The rest is up to them and God... just make sure you're always there as a shoulder to cry on, to hug them when they need it and to accept them no matter what choices they make or who they turn out to be... that's after all what Jesus would do!

And tell your family and friends to pray for you and the kids without fail. A very good friend of ours who went seriously off the rails when he was a student, only to later become a "dominee" once said that he fought and fought against what he knew deep inside he really had to do, but in the end he just had to give up the fight because it was becoming too exhausting! He always said" "Ek het geweet my ouma bid vir my, en as jou ouma vir jou bid, kan jy net sowel ingee, want oumas se gebede is baie sterk en hulle gee NOOIT op nie!". Made me smile ...

Edited March 4, 2007 by Annette

[JacoE]

He always said" "Ek het geweet my ouma bid vir my, en as jou ouma vir jou bid, kan jy net sowel ingee, want oumas se gebede is baie sterk en hulle gee NOOIT op nie!". Made me smile ...

In a book titled 'The Final Quest' Rick Joyner tells of a vision he had in which he entered at the back of God's throneroom walking to the front. As he walked the closer he got to the front he reached an area near the front with lots of thrones, some small, some larger etc. He said the majority of people on these thrones were women. Jesus said to him that these were the mothers and grandmothers who prayed for their children and other people to be saved'. So, consider yourself lucky that you are a woman. They have the power to change to world.

Christains are the minority in every country in the world. In the western world the majority are areligious.

Jaco

[Yankeedoodle]

Lyse,

At some point you have to TRUST the Lord with the desicion you made. He is not always going to give you a straight answer. And you have to trust Him that He will close the doors if it is something that is not according to His will. I asked for closed doors when we had to move if it was not God's will and the doors just opened before us. You have prayed about it and unless there is specific things that hinders you, take what you have into consideration and go for it.

[TMB]

Hi TMB

Thanks for this information. I'm terribly sorry to hear about your friend's child. Devastating. Those dealers are murderers. We have the same huge problem in Durban with them and they are also moving into some of the suburbs.

it actually encourages me to think that perhaps it's not just my mission to move to Aus but maybe the Lord IS guiding as I suspect and hope. What I'm saying is that as one who was on drugs as a teen/ young adult myself I may by the Grace of our Lord somehow have compassion for and be in a position to minister to folk there - the whole world is a mission field isn't it?

Guy's please help me - how did you eventually make peace with the deicsion to leave? It's really hard to know if it is the will of God???? Any advice as I need to decide this weekend on the 138 Visa which seems our best choice. I'm 34 in Oct so can't delay this any longer.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Hi

It is a very hard deicsion to make. But i am sure as you have been going through the channels on getting your visa you have been praying about it. Doors have been opening for you. If the Lord does not want you too go he will show you. You must go by faith. I have no regrets on coming to Oz, and I come from a very close loving family. My goal now is to get them here . I will pray for you and your family.

Mel

[celeste]

Hi

It is a very hard deicsion to make. But i am sure as you have been going through the channels on getting your visa you have been praying about it. Doors have been opening for you. If the Lord does not want you too go he will show you. You must go by faith. I have no regrets on coming to Oz, and I come from a very close loving family. My goal now is to get them here . I will pray for you and your family.

Mel

Hi Mel + Yankeedoodle

thank so much for the encouraging words! Especially what you said about doors opening it makes sense and I'll start praying hard for the Lord to close them if it's not his will. I know what you mean about sometimes he doesn't say yes or no...sometimes he says...here are the options YOU choose!! I've experienced this before in a situation where I was desperate for the Lord to just say...go this way ...or that way...BUT it was clear I had to make up mu own mind. (That was the full time mom freelance work vs working mom dilemma - i chose the latter but work from home by virtue of a God given miracle that my employer agreed to it)

This may sound odd but it's almost like I couldn't see the wood for the trees. I actually have two visa options to choose from (we are blessed to have family in Melborne, South Australia and Gold Coast) and you are right that is an indication of a door that seems to be opening. I think when I started my investigations I expected the opposite...doors to close and just a sense of okay we tried we'll just stay in SA and then go to the UK if we really have to in the future. Instead, doors are opening and it' nerve wracking!

You are right "whatsoever is not of faith is sin" is the scripure that comes to mind...and I've been thinking about Abraham...Of course those who choose to stay in SA also need to exercise faith in that decision.

We are definitely going ahead as I feel its an opportunity we may not get again. Do have a sense of peace about it...thanks so much for your prayers. I truly wonder whether the initiative of this whole mission is perhaps a prompting from the Lord to get going before things get out of hand here. I do pray they don't.

Just sad to sell our house to raise the 100 000$ investment to score those vital five points!!

Cheers