Reasons for leaving

[Brett]

Hi all.

This my first post. My wife and I are in the process of applying (just finished the English test)

I would just like to ask everyone’s opinion on why they think they are leaving SA, the number one reason.

I've been struggling to think of the one single thing that has convinced us to leave.

What would it take to keep you in SA?

[Spider]

Hi Brett,

Welcome to the forum!!

Well, my boyfriend and i have been debating the big step for a while now and have now started the process...

We want to leave (and our parents want us to) as a result of many factors:

- many times we've been robbed, held at gun point, lost family and friends to crime, had family assaulted and so that part goes

- andre cannot find work thanks to AA, so all that studying doesn't help right now - its frustrating and i hurt when i see what he goes through not finding work

- more and more crime against children that is vile and we don't want to live in fear and bring children up under lock and key

this country is beautiful as a country, and to us that is where it ends, we've been through so much at such a young age that we want to be somewhere where there's equal and fair opportunity and where the laws are respected and adhered to...there may be crime everywherem but nothing like here...

How about you guys and your reasons?

Anyway, hope you enjoy the forum!!

Chandi

[sebr]

1.AA

2.BEE

3.Crime

[Cindylou]

Hi Brett

Welcome to the forum, hope you have fun. There was quite a debate on this topic in the early days of the forum, and you might want to have a look at it. Click here to read some of the comments.

Cheers

C'Lou

[Guest Larry]

When we left about 12 years ago, BEE didn't exist.

Our reasons were:

1. Crime

2. AA

The crime was a major issue, but we (the family and I, parents included) also thought that if the silly buggers felt like discriminating against us, they could do without our services.

So in one fell swoop, South Africa lost one doctor, two civil engineers, two accountants, and one quantity surveyor!..... And the children of these professionals!

Whether you call it "apartheid" or "affirmative action" or "BEE" or "the quota system", it makes no difference. - It is racial discrimination!

[sebr]

Whether you call it "apartheid" or "affirmative action" or "BEE" or "the quota system", it makes no difference. - It is racial discrimination!

[Swerwer]

Our reasons for leaving is:

1. The poverty, greed and racism driven random elimination/murder of mostly white people that continues and increases unabated by criminals and without much hope of being stopped by a demotivated, demoralised and in some cases corrupt police force. Criminal acts are being comitted by people acting as police (and in some cases even comitted by police). We can no longer trust the police to protect us while we live in a war with an enemy we cannot distinguish and that can stike anyone at any time. It is obvious that these criminals has no respect for the lives of us, our wives and children. They would not hesitate to rape or murder them in front of us and they have VERY LITTLE chance of being caught, successfully procecuted and then being taken cared for on our expense in overcrowded jails from which they will be released in a short while anyway.

2. The deterioration of most of the Education system in South Africa due to droves of teachers leaving the country for not getting paid, very bad work circumstances, overcrowded classrooms with children with little or no discipline. The widespread lack of funding for Universities and the lowering of their standards. Quotas which discriminate against white pupils with little regard for merit or academic performance. I have NO HOPE for my children to get a good education and even LESS HOPE for them getting a good job due to unfair racial (and I know this is probably retribution for "APARTHEID") laws prohibiting them from obtaining good jobs due to the colour of their skin, while others get promoted due to the colour of their skin...to eventually contribute to the masses of incompetent workers in the public and even in the private sector.

3. The fact that the government and the presidency is completely out of touch with what is happening in the country and seem to be more interested in what happens in the rest of Africa and the world than trying to solve the problems in their own country. They rather take the stance of ignoring, rationalising or blaming it on the past, but refusing to admit that there are some BIG problems that they are not solving or even addressing.

4. The continual deterioration of most of the public sector: Internal Affairs, Justice department, Health department, Police Department, Roads, Licensing department, all mostly due to incompetent staff or widespread corruption. A lot of this was caused by competent staff being made redundant by new racial quota laws and employment equity. Most of us who knew how efficient these departments were in the past will be able to attest that it is just getting worse and worse and that it is on a downward spiral. I also fear that this country's electricity supply will just experience more and more problems in the future...mostly due to demand outstripping supply and the shortage of competent people in Eskom.

5. The marginalisation of Afrikaans (or even just white) people by the total disregard of their history, their contribution in the past, their language and the cold-shoulder that is given to most of their objections against city and street name changes.

6. The risk of HIV/AIDS to our families due to the astronomical extents of the illness in the country, and the huge risk it poses due to rape or blood transfusion.

7. The disparity between the amount of tax we pay and the little we get in return. I would rather spend my future tax money in a country where it actually reaches the people and where it does not get lost due to corruption and complete "overload" on the system due to HIV (in the case of the health system) or the mass production of houses for free (in the home department).

8. The land grab issue.....which I am sure will soon follow in Zimbabwe's footsteps....causing South Africa's economy and the value of the Rand to depreciate.

9. The large number of South African farmers who are forced to abandon farming due to competition with "developed" countries' oversubsidised industries, farm murders and being forced off their land after being paid lower prices for their land...and them being replaced by incompetent farmers which eventually folds and leaves the country having to import more food at high prices.

10. I have to leave now...otherwise I will be too old to meet the VISA requirments.

11. I have lost hope in my Country (South Africa).....and I have no hope left for a prosperous future for my children should I stay here.....

[Rison]

In a nutshell: I don't see any future in South Africa. I refuse to be part of a corrupt system and to contribute my time and energy towards upholding it further. We are not prepared to live in a country where you are not appreciated or wanted and constantly run the risk of being murdered or raped.

[duToits]

1. Crime - The disregard for human lives, woman, children. The incompetance of government and judicial systems.

2. BEE or AA - Every sector in the country is experiencing this, all economic devolpment and progess gets halted.

3. Education - Unless you are in an elite private school.

4. Medical - Without medical aid know ordinary citizen can afford any operations. All the doctors are busy leaving. Just last month students were string because half the class failed their 4th year at medical school. Strike, cause a bit of damage and they let you pass, and give you time to do the subjects you failed. I don't want a doctor working on my that scraped past in exam and gets pushed through.

5 Eskom/Telkom - Their monopoly in this country is now being run by incompetent people and major problems lie in the immediate future.

6 Our children - I do not want to raise my kids here one day.

7. To be able to feel safer

[Brett]

I'm sure I feel the same way most of you do, and judging by the posts it looks that way, it's just I was thinking about this the other day and when it all comes down to it leaving your birth country is a serious matter, and I want to be sure I'm leaving for the right reasons.

Of course all the reasons stated are spot on and there really isn’t any argument against them, but surely there must be something that will keep the whites (And mostly Afrikaans) people together in one country, because in just over one generation we (the ones leaving) will be quite able to end the Afrikaans culture. And even though I’m English that includes my culture.

I’m just asking because as we speak our application is going through, my wife and I are preparing to leave friends and family and restart our lives in Aus. I just don’t want to sit there in 10 years and go “if only” I want to be sure there nothing that can keep me here.

For example if crime vanished tomorrow I’m sure I would stay a little longer, I really believe that crime alone is holding most of the country back, So I put it out there, WHAT WOULD KEEP YOU IN THE COUNTRY? And I suppose if that one thing can’t be fixed then leaving should not be a problem!

[Lindy-Lee]

WHAT WOULD KEEP YOU IN THE COUNTRY?

You know Brett

if you had asked me that question BEFORE we left, I would have said crime etc etc....BUT after living in OZ for 2 years i know that even IF all of that was resolved (crime, AA, BEE etc etc) we wouldn't go back.

I love my life here to much now.

Things change...we left because of crime, but we are not staying here just for saftey anymore...if you understand what I'm saying.

Lindy-Lee

[Guest Larry]

I am in the same boat as Lindy-Lee. - For the first couple of years after I had arrived in Australia, I would have considered returning to South Africa if the government had addressed crime and thrown out AA.

But I have now built up a history in Australia. I feel at home here. Except for my accent and memories of two countries in Africa in which I once lived, I am an Australian. Why should I leave and return to South Africa, which is now a foreign country to me?

FWIIW, my parents, siblings and their children all now live in New Zealand or Australia.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Larry

[Brett]

I guess if it was easy to leave your country you probably didn’t love it to begin with.

Just got our English tests back during lunch (we passed), so the balls rolling and nothing will change in time to stop us going.

I suppose us taking our money out of the country is our way of applying pressure on the country to change (Call it white silent diplomacy).

[Lindy-Lee]

I guess if it was easy to leave your country you probably didn’t love it to begin with.

Brett

I'd say that is very true for some people BUT not for everybody.

It's like being in an abusive relationship. Just because you opt to get out of it doesn't mean you don't love the other person

I've always said that if you are in an abusive relationship with a person, be it emotionally, physically or sexually or whatever...you are told to get out of the relationship before that relationship turns fatal....well I had an emotionally abusive relationship with my country. I felt unsafe at all times, it affected my children etc ..we all know what I'm talking about. SO I opted to get out of it, before it was too late for me, my husband but especially my girls. If I had the chance to leave SA for a better life in any other counrty and I didn't take it, and something happened to one of my girls, who do you think I would have blamed? ME!!!! Because I had the chance to get them away from danger and I didn't! And as a parent I think that is our job...to keep our children safe and out of harms way.

I hope that everything works out for you and your family the way you want it to. Best of luck with your application process and as you say..."nothing will change in time to stop us going."

Lindy-Lee

[Pixi]

Our unprotected borders - which mean the entire continent can come here. And the unwillingness to do someting about it - actualy government can't do anything - because SA ows the rest of the continent. Its pay back time - it was Lusaka, Dar -es- Salaam etc who hosted the exiles, now SA ows them a favour - therefor the reluctancy to act. Just last Saturday as we were making sundowners at the confluence of the Limpopo and Sashe - thats where SA, Botswana and Zim meets, we saw 3 different groups of people walking through from the ZIm side. Its a numbers game, ........I cant see a future. But a feel so sorry for those I leave behind - some honest decent guys will probably still starve ----

[schoemie]

Hello almal,

Ons beplan om einde Mrt oor te gaan. Op die oomblik wens ons ons was al uit die land, met al die negatiewe dinge wat aan die gang is en die regering wat sit en tee drink terwyl mense verkrag, vermoor en van hulle menswees beroof word.

Ja dit maak mens bitter om te dink jy moet uit jou eie land uit vlug net om 'n beter lewe vir jou kind te kan gee. Maar ons weet dat ons die regte besluit geneem het ons weet ook dat God saam met ons gaan.

ENIGE REDES HOEKOM ONS SOU BLY?

Net terwille van ons familie wat hier agter moet bly in hierdie land wat nie eens plek maak vir dit wat Suid Afrika uniek gemaak het nie soos Afrikaans, Die ou geskiedenis van Van Riebeeck en die slag van bloedrivier en al die dinge wat ons as kinders geleer het wat net in 'n kwessie van 'n jaar uitgewis is asof dit nooit bestaan het nie!

En ja, daar gaan die krag ook alweer af! (Notebook is op baterye)

Ons is oppad en dink nie ons sal terugkyk nie, net jammer ons moet soveel mense wat ons liefhet agterlaat!

groete

Charmaine Schoeman

[Bianca S]

Schoemie, jy praat net soos ons dink.

Ons is seker in 'n sekere mate 'gelukkig' dat ons 'n plan kon uitdink om 7 jaar terug al die pad kon vat, al was dit skelmpies in UK inkom en kom werk soek, toe vir permit aansoek doen van SA af, toe die reels strenger was. Ons redes is net soos jy daar sê.

Ek is maar net bitter dat baie vriende en familie nie die stap sal kan maak nie (om veskeie redes), en dat ons ook 'uitmis' op familie/oumas, Oupas, ens. Ons moet ons kultuur verlaat, want ons mag nie meer bestaan in SA nie, tensy ons bereid is om teen die kriminele magte in te gaan en probleme te ignoreer. Mens mis dinge wat bekend was baie, maar mens leer om vorentoe te kyk, want jy weet dis beter aan hierdie kant vir jou gesin...

As jy teruggaan en gaan kuier, sien jy dat dinge ook maar nie meer dieselfde is as wat jy onthou nie, en dat mense aanpas by dinge wat mens nie veronderstel is om by aan te pas nie -dit is jou REG om veilig te wees. Mens is nooit 100% veilig nie, crime is oral, maar SA se situasie het hande uitgeruk, dis baie hartseer.

Askies, dit was vinnig getik, hierdie is so 'n emosionele onderwerp.

Sterkte aan almal.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Bianca.UK

[Marius]

Reasons:

1. Crime - unacceptable living environment and not normal

2. AA - therefore no future career progress and therefore limited future possibilities for us and especially our child.

Best decision ever, very happy. Now we all have a future that WE determine the success of and in a safe, secure, free environment. No brainer.

[WAtdehel]

No arguing with the above reasons!

Me personally, I'd just like to sleep one night without worrying about my wife being safe. Besides, it's not leaving, it's an adventure!

Mens is maar net keelvol vir al die nonsens. Die bottom-line is "ons" moet net wakker skrik en besef "ons" is nie meer welkom hier nie. Dit het tyd geword dat die minderheid hulle goed vat en loop. Net jammer "ons" kan nie die wiel wat "ons" hiernatoe gebring het ook saamvat nie.

Julle ken die ou grappie - Van Riebeeck het met die wiel Afrika toe gekom net om te ontdek die rem was al lankal hier

Selfde redes maar as die Hugenote - ook nie meer lus vir die nonsens nie en wil maar net groener weivelde soek. "Ons" was nog altyd goed daarmee in elk geval...

[alastair]

Hi

The crime, Bee and AA are all negative's, I feel they should not be the reasons for leaving even though they are the prime reasons quoted by members of this forum.

I was mugged and could have lost my life for a cell phone, I have been affected by AA & BEE but these are still not the reasons why we are leaving.

I was born in SA my kids were born in SA, I like the country and have a passion for the country.

We have family and friends that will be staying behind, some through choice and others cannot leave, for this reason I will never run the country down, rather not comment.

The reason that we moving to Australia is for the positives that the country will be able to offer us as a family now and in the future.

We are not going to harbour grudges as how we were forced to leave, it is our choice.

We plan to put all those issues behind us and strive to build a beter future which I feel we can do in Australia.

[christelle]

To be able when you finish with school to go and study and work in something you really are interested ,not just doing any job so you can eat.I left because of better job opportunities .

and off course crime and ....

you know the story

[LiezelM]

We are leaving for all the reasons everyone here is leaving. One other reason I have to add, is the fact that we live with such stress everyday of our lives. Every time we have been overseas, and returned to SA, we could feel the tension, because of the crime. We live with it every day, and don't even realise it anymore. This extract was something I got on email, which outlines very briefly how much mney the government makes off crime:

"Nadat ek 'n slagoffer van misdaad was in 2000, het ek 'n duisend of

meer misdaad-vergaderings, beprekings, dinkskrums, konferensies, ens

bygewoon. En by elke geleentheid gesit en luister hoe mense daarna

streef om die simptome van misdaad die stryd aan te sê. Maar die een

vraag wat niemand gevra het nie, was dit: Wat is die invloed van

misdaad op die regering van Suid-Afrika? Meeste mense antwoord "niks",

en hulle is verkeerd. Ek het Priora Forum gestig net nadat ons

aangeval was. Priora is 'n Latynse woord wat, vertaal, beteken: "Met

die voorafgaande feite." Hier is 'n paar daarvan:

Misdaad genereer vir die regering van Suid-Afrika miljoene der

miljoene rande!!!! Kom ons kyk na 'n paar voorbeelde, as u my sou

vergun. Een miljoen huis-eienaars in Gauteng (1 provinsie uit 9) maak

gebruik van die dienste van 'n gewapende reaksie-mag (let wel, nie 'n

misdaad*voor*komings*mag nie, slegs een wat kan reageer nadat die

misdaad plaasgevind het). Die dienste van so 'n mag beloop gemiddeld

R240,00 per maand per huishouding. Die eenvoudige berekening wat

hierop volg is dit: 1 000 000 x R240,00 x 12 maande x 14% BTW genereer

vir die regering ongeveer R403 miljoen se BTW as 'n direkte gevolg van

misdaad.

Nog 'n voorbeeld: 'n Motordief steel 'n R500 000 weelde-motor. Vir

hierdie daad ontvang hy R10 000,00, R20 000,00 of selfs R30 000,00?

Die eienaar van die voertuig word uitbetaal deur sy versekeraar en

vervang die gesteelde voertuig met 'n soortgelyke een van dieselfde

waarde. Hierdeur ontvang die regering R61 403,51 se BTW op die

transaksie as 'n direkte gevolg van misdaad. Wie het nou 'n groter

finansiële voordeel getrek uit hierdie diefstal? Die dief, of die

regering?

Ek dink langer as wat my neus lank is, en ek hoop so en werk so hard

daaraan om nog sulke denkendes by mekaar te kry. Dan moet ons begin

soek na 'n meganisme waarmee ons die regering van die dag kan motiveer

om hierdie onkonstitusionele en immorele inkomste as 'n direkte gevolg

van misdaad prys te gee. Alle denkende Suid-Afrikaners behoort te eis

dat alle uitgawes tot selfbeskerming van eiendom en lewe nie net teen

'n 0% BTW koers aangeslaan word nie, maar ook belastingaftrekbaar moet

wees, selfs vir die salaristrekker. Dan behoort ons te eis dat alle

vervanging van gesteelde eiendom teen 'n 0% BTW-koers moet kan

plaasvind, en dan behoort ons te eis dat, indien 'n persoon tot sterwe

kom as gevolg van 'n misdadige aksie, so 'n persoon se boedel

kwytgeskeld moet word van alle vorms van boedelbelasting. Het iemand

al ooit gevra wat die regering se boedelbelasting-inkomste was as 'n

direkte gevolg van die +/- 1300 boere wat in Suid-Afrika vermoor is?

Die regering hou daarvan om Suid Afrika met oorsee te vergelyk. Wel

oorsee is jou sekuriteit en veiligheid gedek deur die belasting wat jy

betaal en alle sekuriteit maatreels wat jy tref se uitgawes is van

belasting af trekbaar.

Sodra "denkende" Suid-Afrikaners begin om die regering van die dag se

"inkomste" as 'n direkte gevolg van misdaad terug te eis, sal u sien

hoe gou daar iets gedoen word aan die misdaad. Intussen bly dit die

gans wat die goue eiers lê, terwyl ons onsself blindstaar teen "wat

kan ons doen om die misdaad (se simptome) van ons deure af weg te hou!"

Is dit nie ook onregverdig dat slagoffers van geweld en motorkapings -

deur die regering se beskermde kriminele - self hulle mediese onkostes

moet dra nie. Die regering behoort die slagoffers van geweldsmisdaad

se mediese rekeninge te betaal! Wie betaal vir die berading van

gesinne wat geraak word deur plaas moorde?

Komaan, Suid-Afrika, vra die regte vrae, en dring aan op die regte

antwoorde. "

help n bietjie help n bietjie daar... Tx.

[DesV]

I have a couple of questions,

1. If I were to move from Johannesburg to Cape Town would I have to justify it?,

Why then should anyone have to justify moving or choosing to live wher they please.

2. Has anybody left South Africa and moved to Columbia?

I doubt it and the reason is obvious, Columbia is the only country in the world that has a higher crime rate, amount of murders etc than South Africa

3. Do you love your children or will you love the children you are planning to have and do you want the best for them?

If you answered yes then despite the love you might have for South Africa it might be the wrong place for your kids / grand kids etc and to stay if you have the opportunity to move could be you just being selfish.

Everyone has a right to choose where they want to live and no one has a right to question that but remember one thing, moving countries is not for sissies!

Good luck, the year 2001 was the toughest and lonliest year of my life but every year since then has got better ad when I look baclk now, watch my kids play in the park, when I walk around the city, when I go to sleep at night with my windows open and only a fly screen between me and the open street, when i stop at red traffic lights at night with my windows open and my doors unlocked, when I see children walking to school or riding their bike without parent escorts, when i park my car and go to the late show at the movies and walk back un afraid I know I made the right move. I have not had burglar proofing or security doors on my house for 6 years now, have not had armed response since I left SA. My final question which you should think about is this

Why have you not left South Africa?

[Swerwer]

I rest my case:

Nét een uit 100 gr.1's haal naskoolse onderwys

[JohanK]

The savage attitude of idiots!!

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/...2064460,00.html

The denial and lies about the truth

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/...2064429,00.html