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carolientjie

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Hi there, I have an appeal which I hope someone will find it in their heart to

help us.

My husband and I arrived in Oakey, Queensland last year January on a 457 visa

sponsored by the abattoir. In June 09 I found out that I was pregnant and

everything was going well, except the stand down days we had at the abattoir.

According to my obstetrician the baby was doing well and in December, unable to

cope with the stand down days any longer my husband got a job opportunity as a

butchery manager in St George.

We moved using a rental van and I noticed that bub was not quite moving as much

as he used to. We unloaded the van, and I went to the hospital for just a

"quick" check. Little Kris was born at 32 weeks at just 1,2kg, a whole kilo less

than what he should have been. He was severly growth retarded and we had a great

battle for his life. He spent 47 days in hospital.

Due to the changes to the 457 visa health requirments our employers are no

longer liable for our health cost which is more than $17 000 after the health

insurance paid their share. And unfortunately my husband also had an accident

with the rental van which we now owe more than $2500.

Our current employers agreed to sign the forms for our PR but won't pay anything

towards the cost. We found a migration lawyer where we can make repayments but

the amount of months we need to be able to repay them is 18 months and the

require a deposit of $2000 to cover their expenses to start with the visa. If

somebody can lend us the money we will be able to repay them once we have PR and

able to make a debt consolidation loan.

Please, please if somebody feels that they can assist us and that God presses it

on their heart, we are really really desperate.

Regards

Carolien Dreyer

philip_dreyer@yahoo.co.uk

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Please also contact the Sabona Magazine, they are fantastic when it comes to helping fellow South Africans.

All the very best....

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Hi, I have contacted them and I hope to hear from them soon. Mark Grabe from OZNETWORX a yahoo group is also attempting to collect some assistance for us, if anybody wants to come into contact with him his e-mail is oznetworx@optusnet.com.au.

Thank you

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Do you have to use a migration lawyer, can you not do the application yourselves?

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Hi, probably don't have to use one, but it was going to work out well in the sense that the included all the fees and then we could pay that back in instalments, but then they told us there had been a mistake and that we have to pay a deposit to cover their expenses. Even if we don't use one, we're still in a heap of trouble.

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They way I understand it is that the new health obligations only apply to 457 visas approved after 14 September 2009.

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Yes that's correct and although we are on the visa conditions before Sept 09, because Kris was born after Sept 09 he gets a new visa and is therefore on the new visa conditions. This makes it really hard for us.

At this stage we have a lot of financial trouble from hospital costs over $17 000 (was $30 000) to $6500 that we owe our first employers for furniture and rent etc. to $2500 for the accident we had with the rental van. In the meantime we still have to live every week and pay all our current costs.

We had a lot of good feedback from people and was even made contact with a migration lawyer that will help us with a really good price but we still need the DIAC money to be able to apply for our Permanent Residency.

I ask that if there is people that can help us financially to please make a bank deposit, we've already been helped by a few people and I appreciate it a lot. If everybody could just deposit $10, we would be able to quickly raise the money we need to pay for Kris' past and present medical costs. Those that are blessed to give more that is wonderful.

We are really under great pressure and get a lot of threatening letter and a lot of the debts have gone over to legal action.

Please help us.

Regards

Carolien

Contact details:

philip_dreyer@yahoo.co.uk

bank details:

Westpac

C & PP Dreyer

BSB: 034221

Acc no:465560

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Have you considered consolidating your debt on either a loan or a credit card? Then you pay back a small monthly amount to one creditor and it should make things easier for the day to day expenses and making you balance the budget. Consolidating debt is very common in Aus and it seems a lot of people go for that option when things get a bit tough, allowing them a bit of space to breathe. I have a friend with almost $100 000 debt due to personal circumstances beyond their control (like you) and they managed to get it all consolidated, paying back a monthly installment.

I'm sure if you have a chat with your bank, they'll be able to give you some advise on how to do that. Just be careful of dodgy loan sharks - use a legitimate financial institution.

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thanks Riekie, yes that is actually our main target, BUT with the financial crises etc, we cant get any help like that, not on our 457 visa. That's why we appeal to people to help us so that we can get PR. But looks like many people think it's just a scam or something. Instead it is one of the hardest things that I have done so far to admit that we are definitely not coping and need some help.

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I can understand that you're feeling miserable about your situation, but there are ways you can make it work - just don't give up after the 1st attempt. If you've been to your bank, and they refused to help, go to another bank or financial institution like GE Money, etc. The TV is full of ads about institutions offering to consolidate debt - one of them should be only too willing to help you out as they make their money from the interest and admin fees. We were on a 457 too and when we opened our bank account, we were immediately offered quite a substantial amount of credit (far more than we would ever dream of in South Africa - we thought they must be mad!) When we received our credit cards, we had to request a decrease on our credit limit as it was outrageous.

Help is out there - don't accept the first answer you get. That's the beauty of this country - just take your business elsewhere. In South Africa we've been with the same bank for more than 20 years and had all our accounts with them. There is absolutly no bank loyalty in Australia - people shop around for banks like they shop around for dishwashers. They'll have their home loan at one place, their credit card(s) at a few others and their bank account at another. The best deal always wins.

Good luck and don't give up!

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But looks like many people think it's just a scam or something.

I don't think it is a case of people thinking it is a scam, but a lot of people are doing it tough, some being in even worse situations than you are unfortunate to find yourself, not forgetting the many Aussie battlers out there.

The Aussies are a giving nation but people tend to lend a hand to those they know - their friends, family, community. Don't forget your church or local community. You are very brave to ask for help and my heart goes out to you. You may not see the light at the end of the tunnel now, but help is out there if you look in the right places. Things will look up again - don't lose faith and don't stop trying!

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Thanks Riekie, but I can promise you that we didn't give up after the first attempt we gave every single bank a call and filled in every single form for a credit card. We have also called a lot of the debt consolidation companies and the few that might help only give the loan up to 6months before your visa experise and nthat is just 18 months, for the $30 000 or so we need that will be more than $400 a week and we'd still ned to pay rent, food and living costs. So I haven't given up, it's just that I don't know what to do anymore? Things have changed since the ressesion, and being on a 457 visa doesn't help.

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I echo Riekie's sentiments - shop around and you should find an institution prepared to assist. People on 457's get loans and credit all the time, and there is no reason for it to be any different for you. Here are some other suggestions:

Don't use the agent - $2000 to them is an additional expense that you don't need and you can manage your own application. Many of the forum members have already gone through that process.

Speak to the hospital and come to an arrangement with them to pay off the amount outstanding in regular, manageable payments. Ultimately, they just want their money and don't want the hassle of lawyers and collection agencies, so if you talk to them, they will probably be happy to agree on a payment plan with you.

Put off your PR applciation - pay off your other debts for now, to the previous employer and the rental van company, and then lodge your PR application once you are financially in a better position.

Good luck,

Ajay

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Thank you all for your good wishes and advice, still it would help us a lot to get some financial assistance to start our PR because we have tried a lot of times to achieve a loan and was never granted one, even when both of us have been working. And with Kris's new medical costs as well we've really got a problem. It is not as easy as just paying off some debts and siedaar everything is ok, we need to pay our current expenses as well. We are living at a minus, our expenses is way more than our income. I have been looking for a job but have not received any feedback yet. Thank you for the people that have been in our situation and made a promise to make a deposit. I know that there is a lot of people out there willing to make a donation and if a lot of people just help us with $10 we will quickly be able to cover Kris's medical costs.

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But looks like many people think it's just a scam or something. Instead it is one of the hardest things that I have done so far to admit that we are definitely not coping and need some help.

Is it possible for people who want to help to pay money directly to the hospital to offset your outstanding account.

If you can post your hospital account number and the banking details for the hospital etc, then people could deposit there if they are worried about a scam but want to make a contribution.

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If anybody wants to help out, but feel that they don't want to pay directly to me, here is the Hospital's details: Phone number 07 4616 6251 Enquiries to Bernadette Craig/Karen Joyce. Total amount is $17 904. Patient is Kris Dreyer reference number T419530-1 and cheques can be posted to Darling Downs - West Moreton Health Service District, ATTN: Accounts Receivable. PMB 2, Toowoomba QLD 4350. Thank you.

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Hello Carolien

I suggest it will help you to put some information on your 'user profile' you are new on this forum and most people here probably know nothing about you. It must have been very difficult for you to ask strangers for help so take a bit of time and fill in your user profile so that we can understand and empathize with your situation better.

Posting the hospital details was a good idea.

All the best.

Michael

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Hi, thanks for the tip, I've updated my about page and our whole story is on there!

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Considering how bad your situation really is, why do you not opt for bankruptcy.

The way I understand it, (and Ajay your migration advice would help here), bankruptcy has no effect on immigration unless you are on a business VISA.

So you PR application should not be affected as the character check is really only a police criminal record check and is not related to your debt situation.

Yes you cannot make new debt, but at least the old ones will stop hounding you.

Hopefully that will free up some cash to pay the DIAC fees.

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I would contact all your medical debtors and offer to pay them what you can right now. Explain your situation and make it clear that you are not in a position right now to repay the full amount and will pay what you can. At the end of the day they can try pursue this more aggressively which they will do by way of letters etc. At the end of the day you can’t squeeze blood from a stone and they know this.

Regarding the car rental company: They should be insured and their vehicle would no doubt by now be fixed and running. Again explain your situation and offer to pay them something.

Not entirely sure how it works in Aus but worst case scenario they can hand you over and a court could order you to pay. However the court takes into account your expenses and will not order you to pay more than you can afford which may even be less than you originally offer. These companies know this and are currently busy trying to strong arm you into paying them the full amount straight away by getting a loan and making the debt someone else’s problem (The Bank). The issue is not that you are not willing to pay but that you are unable to pay the full amount at the moment. Seeing as you do not own property etc it is not in their best interest to file against you (for bankruptcy) as they are likely to not even recover ten cents to the dollar for the money you owe them if they do.

In my opinion your PR application should be your absolute focus at the moment. Once you have PR, you have Medicare, Rent Assist and a number of other grants which will considerably relieve the pressure. So why don’t you get as much information on that process from the members here and avoid paying a lawyer by doing it yourself. Lodge and get PR then when you have the assistance from the government offer to pay your debtors a little bit more.

The fact that then you are asking to be helped out with the money to get PR which will go a long ways to you, solving the other problems yourself and the fact that it seems like a attainable amount to raise I will result in members here being more likely to help.

It would also help if there is some transparency about the amount already donated on regular basis.

Just a last word for the forumites around the “Is this a scam issueâ€. Someone once taught me that “It is not about the heart that receives the charity, but entirely about the heart that gives itâ€

$10 is 2 packets of Tim Tams….. buy yourself some feel good instead.

P.S. Please note that I am not an expert on australian law so it would be a great idea to find out more about the legal implications.

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Hi, thanks for the tip, I've updated my about page and our whole story is on there!

Hello Carolien I suggest you put the hospital contact details on your profile too, just so that it is all in one place.

Michael

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I would contact all your medical debtors and offer to pay them what you can right now. Explain your situation and make it clear that you are not in a position right now to repay the full amount and will pay what you can. At the end of the day they can try pursue this more aggressively which they will do by way of letters etc. At the end of the day you can’t squeeze blood from a stone and they know this.

Regarding the car rental company: They should be insured and their vehicle would no doubt by now be fixed and running. Again explain your situation and offer to pay them something.

Not entirely sure how it works in Aus but worst case scenario they can hand you over and a court could order you to pay. However the court takes into account your expenses and will not order you to pay more than you can afford which may even be less than you originally offer. These companies know this and are currently busy trying to strong arm you into paying them the full amount straight away by getting a loan and making the debt someone else’s problem (The Bank). The issue is not that you are not willing to pay but that you are unable to pay the full amount at the moment. Seeing as you do not own property etc it is not in their best interest to file against you (for bankruptcy) as they are likely to not even recover ten cents to the dollar for the money you owe them if they do.

In my opinion your PR application should be your absolute focus at the moment. Once you have PR, you have Medicare, Rent Assist and a number of other grants which will considerably relieve the pressure. So why don’t you get as much information on that process from the members here and avoid paying a lawyer by doing it yourself. Lodge and get PR then when you have the assistance from the government offer to pay your debtors a little bit more.

The fact that then you are asking to be helped out with the money to get PR which will go a long ways to you, solving the other problems yourself and the fact that it seems like a attainable amount to raise I will result in members here being more likely to help.

It would also help if there is some transparency about the amount already donated on regular basis.

Just a last word for the forumites around the “Is this a scam issueâ€. Someone once taught me that “It is not about the heart that receives the charity, but entirely about the heart that gives itâ€

$10 is 2 packets of Tim Tams….. buy yourself some feel good instead.

P.S. Please note that I am not an expert on australian law so it would be a great idea to find out more about the legal implications.

Thank you, you have a point there. It's just that unfortunately we have a lot of ongoing medical expenses as well so thats a big problem. It would be great if people could help us with the DIAC fees if they think thats better? Let me know? The amount I worked out that we need without a migration lawyer is about $3800 but I still need to find out the costs for the medicals, I heard it's about $300 per person?

At this stage a few people have come forward and said they will donate money, but have only received a $100 yet.

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Don't use immigration agents or lawyers if you can help it, especially if you are already here on some kind of visa. Deal directly with DIMIA.

OzNetworks are good, but most of the members are in Sydney. I hope they can be of assistance.

Immigration may have changed since my day, but sponsored immigrants normally get permanent residency on arrival and can then claim Medicare and even, in some cases, income support if unemployed. My apologies if you are here under some other arrangement.

Rental agreements with people like Budget normally include insurance. Is their some reason why this does not cover the accident, especially if it was not your fault? The rental company's insurer should be working it out with the other driver's insurer. That's why we have compulsory insurance.

Hopefully you have had the chance to talk to people, free legal aid is available, who know their way around the Australian system. You seem to be having an unusually rough time and I am not sure that you should be personally liable for all these expenses. Someone may be having a lend of you.

Hoping that all this turns out for the best. Take care!

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Don't use immigration agents or lawyers if you can help it, especially if you are already here on some kind of visa. Deal directly with DIMIA.

OzNetworks are good, but most of the members are in Sydney. I hope they can be of assistance.

Immigration may have changed since my day, but sponsored immigrants normally get permanent residency on arrival and can then claim Medicare and even, in some cases, income support if unemployed. My apologies if you are here under some other arrangement.

Rental agreements with people like Budget normally include insurance. Is their some reason why this does not cover the accident, especially if it was not your fault? The rental company's insurer should be working it out with the other driver's insurer. That's why we have compulsory insurance.

Hopefully you have had the chance to talk to people, free legal aid is available, who know their way around the Australian system. You seem to be having an unusually rough time and I am not sure that you should be personally liable for all these expenses. Someone may be having a lend of you.

Hoping that all this turns out for the best. Take care!

Hi there, we are on a 457 visa and don't receive any government assistance. The accident was with a kangaroo and their insurance doesn't cover that, you are liable for the whole amount. Thanks a lot you too!

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There are different sorts of car insurances in Australia.

The very basic insurance on any vehicle on the road is "Third Party PERSON" insurance. This is compulsory in Australia and you get this basic level of insurance when you register the vehicle.

If you have a crash, and someone gets injured, this sort of insurance pays all the hospital and recovery bills for the Person.

The other level of car insurance is "Third Party PROPERTY" insurance. This covers you when you crash into another vehicle or someone else's property, such as their fence and gate.

It is for other people's property

Lastly, there is "Fully Comprehensive" insurance.

This covers the other person's property (car, motor bike, fence, gate, etc.) AND any damage done to your own vehicle.

If they had this level of car insurance, then they can claim back the cost of any repairs to the vehicle you drove.

You need to find out if they had "fully comp" (Full Comprehensive) insurance on the van.

If they have, you don't need to pay as they are already covered.

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