The reasons for leaving SA

[No Worries Mate]

After reading some scary mails about what not to like in OZ I realise that we are in for a very hard ride over the next few years.

I then thought it important to rethink the reasons for going.

Andre

Edited March 26, 2008 by Andre & Liz

[Gizmo]

I guess we want to avoid being victims of crime, and we are going for the future of our daughter.

[Hennie-Pennie]

After reading some scary mails about what not to like in OZ I realise that we are in for a very hard ride over the next few years.

I then thought it important to rethink the reasons for going.

Andre

Hi ANdre

Can I give you some advice. DO not start focusing on the negative reasons for leaving SOuth africa. Rather get into the habit of getting reasons to stay in Australia. When people ask "why did you leave SOuth Africa" I answer: "Because I had the oppertunity to come to AUstralia! I don't want to be a negative migrant. I want to be a Positive AUstralian! It is a mindset but it makes life easier this side. You know why you left. write it down and keep it folded in your drawer with your underwear. But do not dwell on it!

It is really easy to be happy here! Your reasons for staying will soon outweigh your reasons for leaving South Africa.

Just my opinion!

[No Worries Mate]

Henriette

Your opinion is of course very correct!!!

I just seems like such a roller coater ride emotionally. This weekend we went through a bit of a downer regarding the move.

The amount of strees ahead is sometimes overwhelming!

However I am sure we will very soon be on a high again and look forward to the great adventure.

I think the biggest pain of all is the waiting, having no direction you know.

Thanks

Andre

[elizes]

Andre and Liz

The biggest pain is not the waiting. It will be the settling in in Aus. It is difficult, no matter what people say. BUT, I believe it is out and out worth it in the long and short run. Even after only being here for 2 months, I know we did the right thing, although it is hard sometimes longing for all your familiar surroundings and family. Kids are much more confident here, much more free than in ZA, and that counts for a lot...

[Hennie-Pennie]

Henriette

Your opinion is of course very correct!!!

I just seems like such a roller coater ride emotionally. This weekend we went through a bit of a downer regarding the move.

The amount of strees ahead is sometimes overwhelming!

However I am sure we will very soon be on a high again and look forward to the great adventure.

I think the biggest pain of all is the waiting, having no direction you know.

Thanks

Andre

Andre...skies man wou nie onsimpatiek klink nie. Praat eintlik met myself ok...

It is terrible standing with your feet in 2 countries. It is tough and very exhausting. Immigration is not a move to make with your heart...it's a head move. Your feelings can not be trusted! You will feel as if you are making the biggest mistake! It is very natural for your body to go into self defence mode and to react as if you are in danger...just because you are leaving everything you know and love behind...It is a rollercoaster ride and it can break you if you let your heart guide you... Just focus on getting here. The emotional ride do not stop dead in its tracks once you set foot on ozzie soil. I w entthrough a bad 3 month dip, and a even worse 6 month one...beware. It put me flat on my face. I had to have a serious talk to my heart and told him her head is in control! There is no reason not to fit in. You will be ok!!! We are here to support and help you through it!

[stevie_za]

My wife and I lived in the UK for 5 years and we got used to first world services, and holidays that you don't have to save up for years in advance. Overall a better quality of life.

Yes crime is also part of our reason and our 2 year old son.

[wislon]

The AA "security guards" (and I use that term loosely) at the gate of our complex took a photo of the back of my car yesterday, as my fiance was driving out with her friend. She mentioned it on her return. When we took one of the members of the body corporate down with us to confront them, they lied, and then accused my fiance of lying.

When I asked the oke what purpose she could possibly have for lying (and she had a friend with her at the time to back her up), he then flat out denied having a camera. Then his colleague piped up that it was a torch that they'd found in the rubbish area. When we asked to see it, he said some other guy had taken it, they were just charging it for him. I was about to ask to see the charger, and to ask him why he'd come out behind the car, hold a torch up to his eye and shine it on the back of my car in broad daylight, when I realised we were on a hiding to nothing. Whatever we asked for, they'd have a story for. Every time you called them on the lie, they'd have another lie ready. The important thing for me at that point was for them to realise that I knew they were lying and that we were aware of what's going on.

I used to feel a bit more secure with these guys "monitoring" (and now I use that term loosely too) the entrance/exit of the complex. But after hearing some other horror stories about these guys it makes me wonder if they're not putting out some sort of "sales brochure" to the various robbers/hijackers/syndicates in the area.

And the looks I got this morning when I drove out to work... man, I'd probably be dead by now if they'd been able to translate those thoughts into immediate action.

And now of course we have the added bonus of making sure we're not being followed when we come into or leave the complex.

I hate this place. The visa can't come fast enough.

[NikkiH]

Hi Wislon

The complex I lived in refused to get guards, even though there was a guard house. The reason was that it was the guards who let the criminals in in the first place! And as a result our complex was crime free, compared to other complexes with security guards who were being hit.

They earn little and think that what belongs to you should belong to them, and they dont have any moral compas to tell right from wrong. They only worry about the money being right. At least now they know that they will be under suspiscion if something happens, and that may make them think twice about helping anyone get in.

I hope your application comes through soon!

I feel so much less stress since we live here. It took a while for me to unwind, but I can really feel the difference, and my husband says I am more like my old self again

Edited March 25, 2008 by NikkiH

[No Worries Mate]

I was at a conference last week about the energy crisis......that is of course another topic I will start later.

We were in the queue to get buffet lunch and a friend of mine made a practical joke with a black gentleman standing in front of us. He just tugged on his plate he was holding to make the guy think it was falling from his hand. This guy jokes with everyone all the time like that. He is very well respected in the industry and everyone knows and likes him too.

So the black guy turns round looks us up and down with this grin on his face and says " We are just waiting for Mandela to die, then it is free for all"

Well I still cannot believe an educated person would say something like that. This begs the question does the entire black poulation feel that way, I mean especially the poor. Can't really blame them for having negative thoughts hey! I would too!

Anyway I am not going to put up with something my forefathers caused...and why should our kids.

Andre

[wislon]

So the black guy turns round looks us up and down with this grin on his face and says " We are just waiting for Mandela to die, then it is free for all"

I'm busy reading "After the Party" by Andrew Feinstein (used to work for the ANC and then resigned in disgust over the way they are handling the arms deal debacle).

It takes my breath away when I read about the stuff that went on, right from the very beginning in '94. I used to think that the problems pretty much started with Thabo's reign, but he only reinforced what had already started. When you read about what went on (and what's going on, and worsening), it's actually no surprise to see why things have gone the way they have, and why there is actually no hope (no matter what anyone says) for things in this country. I am completely gobsmacked by the stuff he's telling that was prevented from ever making it into the papers.

They may have their "free for all", but when they've used up that "resource", there will be "nothing for all" (except the politically connected fat cats). By then that chap had better hope he's one of them...

Edited March 25, 2008 by wislon

[Cagiva]

I agree completely with Henriette. We cant wait to be part of Australia.

But it makes me so sad that I am undecided as to whether being attacked in my home by a man wielding a panga and having to fight him off to avoid further injury or rape counts as serious crime or just crime.

[No Worries Mate]

Cagiva

I think you make a good point. We are all exposed to so much here that we loose perspective on what is a serious crime. Surely all crime is serious??

Andre

[Cagiva]

Andre, before the attack our attitude was that as long as they only took material good we would be okay. How utterly sad is that. We have had uncountable break ins.

The man that attacked me has been arrested. I have not been contacted by the police yet. I assume it is because I was not seriously injured and he was sought on an actual rape case too. Regardless he is out on R500.00 bail. That is for the rape charge.

But as Henriette says, we are no longer focusing on the negative. This is just a transition period for us until we get to Australia and our lives begin.

[Cramer]

I used to think that because South Africa's transition to democracy was a peaceful one, things would be different. Now I am not sure. The way Zuma blatantly flaunts the law and acts like he is above the law kind of reminds me of a young Idi Amin or Robert Mugabe.

Watching Carte Blanche last week with the raids on the restaurants in Stellenbosch, it is amazing how those raids are reminiscent of the raids (under apartheid SA) on local shebeens just to knock a couple of people around just to say we are in charge here and there is nothing you can do about it. Role reversal.

Wade

Edited March 25, 2008 by wcramer

[DesertDaisy]

I give up on answering this type of question, because its ridiculous really. South Africans are the only expats in Aus that carry on so much about why they moved.

So now, when I'm asked, I tell them its because of Arnotts Mint Slices. Its a good a reason as any!

[No Worries Mate]

Hi Desert Daisy

Maybe that is because it is mostly Africa where we have to think about this sort of thing. I know the crime in the rest of the world is not zero, but I also do not think people from SA discuss crime because they want to. If there was none well then nothing to discuss.

Maybe you have forgotten how it is to be here. I am sure I wont talk much about crime when I am in Sydney.

Anyway if Mint slices is your thing I I willing to discuss that with you

[Legalbuff]

I read a true and helpful hint in another thread on this forum:

"Don't discuss crime and how bad SA is with the Aussies - they don't care." It was part of another discussion - can't remember about what.

But it is true though.

DesertDaisy, I think the reason why so many SA'ns talk about why they are leaving, is because for many of us, until a few years/months ago, South Africa was still home in our hearts. We felt we had a good life, and options for a good life, for us and our children there. With things as they stand, that has all but evaporated. And now, many of us still on the way, find this a traumatic experience, since we (as I imagine all of us, whether you are there already or still on the way, feel) feel we have NOWHERE else to go. Can't be IN SA, so we need to find another place to call home.

I think SA'ns also discuss the reasons they are leaving to justify to themselves why they are taking such a drastic move. I think it stems a little bit from being so segregated from the rest of the world during apartheid. The rest of the world has been working everywhere in the world as expats forever, but to South Africans (not all, but many) this is a completely foreign idea.

If I take my parents as an example. They'll NEVER leave. Not because they don't have the opportunity, but because for them, it's not even an option. It's "overseas". How many people in the 80's - 90's could really afford an "overseas" holiday. It's all foreign ideas, for a lot of people.

Also - I think since many people still DO have a good life in SA, they need to make very sure for themselves why they are doing it. Why give up the help in the house and garden, the Merc, the one and a half child and Labrador if it's still okay. Many were victims of crime already, but many, thankfully, have not. And things are bubbling along "okay" ish. I think we wh are outside of SA see things as a much starker reality.

When you are there, it doesn't feel that bad. (for many, for a lot on this forum and in the process - they also live in the real reality of what's going on).

Just thought I'd weigh in here with my 2c.

[No Worries Mate]

You only have to read the articles at this forum or any SA news to see how fed up we all are with being unsafe. Geez take the family that was attached 2 weeks back just after they received the visas. The article is on the site.

I can understand born and bred Aussies no caring much about the crime in SA, but an ex South african has to understand.

Or is it maybe like the worst non smokers are the ones that smoked before?

I certainly cant help talking about it as it is in my face everywhere!

Andre

[no longer interested]

I was at a conference last week about the energy crisis......that is of course another topic I will start later.

We were in the queue to get buffet lunch and a friend of mine made a practical joke with a black gentleman standing in front of us. He just tugged on his plate he was holding to make the guy think it was falling from his hand. This guy jokes with everyone all the time like that. He is very well respected in the industry and everyone knows and likes him too.

So the black guy turns round looks us up and down with this grin on his face and says " We are just waiting for Mandela to die, then it is free for all"

Well I still cannot believe an educated person would say something like that. This begs the question does the entire black poulation feel that way, I mean especially the poor. Can't really blame them for having negative thoughts hey! I would too!

Anyway I am not going to put up with something my forefathers caused...and why should our kids.

Andre

I cant believe that someone would consider a "practical joke" like that .. disgusting.. and then just because he is "respected" yeah nah I hope he stays far far away .. because regardless something like that would not be considered professional either in Australia or the States and the "joker" well yeah the "joke" would be on him for his actions .. quick smart he would face disciplinary action or worse be dismissed. one can not intrude on another's space and think that because it was a "joke" that this is ok.. this comment shows me that I really don't need this way of thinking and I am moving on. I sincerely hope for you that you dont condone his behavior either as this would not behove you well wherever you move to from South Africa.

[Guest natalie3]

mm..it does sound like a bit of a mean joke, but i dont think "harsh" enough to justify a threat of genocide...

I think a big problem with this forum is that it is difficult to explain a story without being misunderstood because we are not face to face..its similar to skype..words just are not the same as when they are spoken..this causes tension because we literally have to be "blunt" to get the message across..

So just read carefully..and think before u type..its easy to be misunderstood.

[No Worries Mate]

mmmm.I think you can see it both ways.......

If someone played a joke on you though would you make a comment of that sort...I think not!

Andre

[Biker]

OK, I thought long and hard before posting this.

Best way is to make my intentions clear upfront before saying it. And if anyone is unsure how to interpret the below, please send me a private message. Failing that, I'm pretty sure the media knows exactly how to interpret this. They have much better insight to my thoughts than I do myself.

I'm sick & tired of BEE and incomptence and insults to my only 2 brain cells by this lethargic corrupt government.

[No Worries Mate]

I have to agree....

[Corne and Jacqui]

I'm sick & tired of BEE and incomptence and insults to my only 2 brain cells by this lethargic corrupt government.

what he said