My research has me going in circles :-s

[LeighM]

Hi everyone. Our 190 NSW State-sponsored visa was granted on 06/07, praise the Lord. We will be arriving in Sydney on 13/01/2016.

Now, I consider myself quite the intrepid researcher. I had the miguided impression that drawing up a simple set of criteria would make my research that much easier, but it feels like every evening I end up at the point where I started that morning. My research specifically centres around schools for my boys (currently in Grade 8 and 5), and thus suburbs to rent in.

Firstly, suburbs: there is a host of objective information on the internet regarding good suburbs, but I tend to want to mix that in with some subjective opinions from people that have firsthand experience of the place. The problem is that, despite people being truly helpful and well-meaning, their opinion is based on their unique circumstances and its difficult to translate that into our circumstances. It's not uncommon for people to say "I don't have any first hand experience of that area, but I have a friend/colleague who has experience of it and they say it's a really great area with good schools" or even "I live in that area, it's really lovely and will be perfect for your family". I appreciate those responses, but neither helps me narrow my search down because the choices are so good and so vast. Yes, I have also used the forum's search function and this has been discussed ad nauseum in the past, I'm just hoping someone can shed a different light on the subject (without annoying the forum regulars ).

Then schools: those that have the benefit of hindsight can recall how hard it is to research "the perfect school" from SA, because the reality is that may not even exist. There are great schools, good schools and less than good schools (hardly any bad schools). Again, being spoilt for choice makes internet research impossible.

The question of "where will you be working?" always comes up. Right now, anywhere that will take me Companies and agencies have been great in responding to my requests, but there is a real reticence to commit to anything since I will only arrive in January 2016.

So here's where I currently find myself, and I'd love to hear if you agree with me or not. I realise that I will only be able to make a final decision when I am on Sydney soil, trekking from one neighbourhood to the next getting a feel for myself. I accept that, but that feels like throwing my family off a cliff and hoping they land somewhere soft. So I have narrowed my search down to two general vacinities: The Hills District, and The Sutherland Shire. We like the look of Cherrybrook Tech and Port Hacking High respectively. Chances are we may not even end up at either, but it feels good to at least have narrowed down to a few options. Rental prices in the catchment zones are another story, but possibly a sacrifice I'm willing to make without having any real experience .

It would be foolish of me to ask you "which area is better, The Hills or Sutherland Shire?" as I'm sure they both offer a similar degree of positives and negatives and locals will stand up for their choices. If you feel confident enough to answer the question though, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Alternatively, what are the questions I need to answer to help me narrow my search down further? Should I stop being such a pedantic researcher altogether and just take things as they come until I get there?

Sorry, I realise that is a lot to read I really need to get to my point a lot quicker

[AFreshStart]

Hi LeighM,

I don't think you are being pedantic at all, my guess is your kids are one of the major driving reasons for making the move and so it stands to reason you SHOULD be concerned with their well-being and education.

We did the same, we looked at various suburbs and got info from this person, that person, and were overwhelmed and just had to sit down and decide what was important to us. We picked a suburb based on a Church we connected with, which happened to also be zoned for the fastest growing school in NSW who we had heard exemplary things about and chose the suburb based on that and then looked to secure a rental within the school zone. We figured we wanted to be in a supportive community and having a welcoming Church and good school would allow that, and they did and do.

Turns out my wife secured employment after we had made the decision and her commute on foot was 19mins each way. 5-months in we moved out of the suburb, two suburbs over and bought an apartment, but are still in the school zone and it's now a 8-10 minute bus ride for her.

Do as much preparation before hand, look at schools, possible work opportunities and the community around you. We personally chose NOT to move into a Saffer expat hotspots as we wanted to quickly acclimatize to Australian culture and the best way to do that is to inject yourself into your community.

I can't comment on the The Hills, but The Shire is beautiful and a family friendly place to raise children. Commuting to the City can be hair raising in traffic, just last week it took a friend almost 2-hours one way to get from Cronulla to the CBD and at BEST it's 45 minutes each way our of peak traffic.

I guess it depends on your line of work RE employment, but If you are finance say, there is a good chance you'll be working in the CBD, so you might want to be closer to the CBD and for that I'd recommend The Inner West, places like Lilyfield, Leichhardt, Haberfield which are 20-30 mins from the CBD by bus, but give you more space, lots of greenery, parks and outdoor living.

Not sure this helps, but if nothing else know there is nothing wrong with doing your research and it will help you settle quickly.

Cheers

Matt

[LeighM]

Hi LeighM,

I don't think you are being pedantic at all, my guess is your kids are one of the major driving reasons for making the move and so it stands to reason you SHOULD be concerned with their well-being and education.

We did the same, we looked at various suburbs and got info from this person, that person, and were overwhelmed and just had to sit down and decide what was important to us. We picked a suburb based on a Church we connected with, which happened to also be zoned for the fastest growing school in NSW who we had heard exemplary things about and chose the suburb based on that and then looked to secure a rental within the school zone. We figured we wanted to be in a supportive community and having a welcoming Church and good school would allow that, and they did and do.

Turns out my wife secured employment after we had made the decision and her commute on foot was 19mins each way. 5-months in we moved out of the suburb, two suburbs over and bought an apartment, but are still in the school zone and it's now a 8-10 minute bus ride for her.

Do as much preparation before hand, look at schools, possible work opportunities and the community around you. We personally chose NOT to move into a Saffer expat hotspots as we wanted to quickly acclimatize to Australian culture and the best way to do that is to inject yourself into your community.

I can't comment on the The Hills, but The Shire is beautiful and a family friendly place to raise children. Commuting to the City can be hair raising in traffic, just last week it took a friend almost 2-hours one way to get from Cronulla to the CBD and at BEST it's 45 minutes each way our of peak traffic.

I guess it depends on your line of work RE employment, but If you are finance say, there is a good chance you'll be working in the CBD, so you might want to be closer to the CBD and for that I'd recommend The Inner West, places like Lilyfield, Leichhardt, Haberfield which are 20-30 mins from the CBD by bus, but give you more space, lots of greenery, parks and outdoor living.

Not sure this helps, but if nothing else know there is nothing wrong with doing your research and it will help you settle quickly.

Cheers

Matt

Matt, this helps more than you know.

my guess is your kids are one of the major driving reasons for making the move...

This is absolutely the reason we're making the move!

We picked a suburb based on a Church we connected with...

Was this based on info you picked up from their website, or did you personally know a few people there?

We personally chose NOT to move into a Saffer expat hotspots as we wanted to quickly acclimatize to Australian culture and the best way to do that is to inject yourself into your community.

This is PRECISELY how we feel, glad to see that we're not alone. I wondered though if, since we don't have a support network in place in Sydney, it would be more difficult for us to integrate but your experience gives me hope.

I'd recommend The Inner West, places like Lilyfield, Leichhardt, Haberfield

More suburbs to research, yay! Just when I thought i'd looked at all options ... you're feeding my research bug, you know

Thanks for your positive feedback!

[AFreshStart]

LeighM,

Nope, didn't know anyone at Church. We're Anglican and so I just looked at Sydney Anglican Churches and stumbled across our Church. I listened to a few sermons/podcasts, watched a few of the videos and read their mission statement and knew it was where we wanted to be.

I reached out to the pastor and we started chatting and he shared his vision for the Church, about the church itself etc and then over several e-mails we got to know about the suburb, the local schools, where his kids went and he even drew and overlaid the best areas to live within the catchment areas for families with an emphasis on access to parks and services like the Library etc.

In moving I took over a community garden in the neighbourhood and that allowed me to meet our neighbours, many of whom had kids and they've all helped in the garden and we had a roster for watering, had a sausage sizzle and worker bee to kick off (terms you'll soon learn) and it fostered a community that has allowed us very quickly to make friends and even though we have moved to different suburb we still have them over for meals. Just this past week we entertained 3 different sets of friends over meals at our place and our pastor came over for lunch today, so make that 4.

While I regularly meet up with and up have had offered advice and take people around on LSD's, 99% of our friends are Australian. It's just how it's worked out and it's probably helped settle us as quickly as we have.

Cheers

Matt

Edited August 18, 2015 by AFreshStart

[DXB2OZ]

I love your description about throwing your family off a cliff and hoping they land somewhere soft (can't work the quote thingy) - it is exactly what it is. Choosing a place to live and go to school is a bit like dating - you never know when it will click.

We took the same approach of narrowing it down to three zones, ours were based primarily around the schools. The one school wouldn't even talk to us even if we were in zone - we knew we could fight it, but felt it wasn't worth it. The second school never ever answered their phone, so we focused all our energies on the third and fortunately it worked.

We also used google street view extensively to try and get a feel for the streets - keep in mind that you will be walking those pavements, the kids will be walking/riding their bikes to and from school, you will actually live in your community.

I would try to ensure you have access to public transport routes - even if it is drive to station and park. That will get you into the CBD without the traffic nightmare.

What I found very helpful was to ask people what they didn't like and then decide if those were things that bothered me or now. You seem to be on the right track - just remember that if you get it wrong, you can move, you can change. It is not ideal but nothing is cast in stone. You would be amazed how much stress is relieved just by allowing yourself an escape clause.

[monsta]

Hey guys,

To give you another point if view..technology is your friend!

I always suggest going inline and requesting a Hayes Salary Survey be emailed to you. Sure, Mosman is great! But if you are earning a Penrith salary...well its not so great.

You can see the average income in each suburb by playing around with a site from ubank called Www.peoplelikeu.com.au

Fill in your profile, e.g. age, expected income, suburb, etc... Then see how many people like u there are. Then fill it in again and up your income a bit. If there are a lot more people who meet that criteria, then you know you might not earn enough to live in that suburb.

Www.Realestate.com.au also does suburb profiles, if you dig around on the site. It will tell you the kind of person who lives there, what the average rental is, etc..

There are several sites that can rank schools by their HSC results. The HSC is the matric in New South Walles. Just do a google search for a ranking site.

Lastly, BE REALISTIC. My apologies for the capitals. Your pension funds balance is probably half what the average Aussie has in theirs at your age. Be mindfull you will need to save a bit more than your average Aussie to make up for the difference.

Also remember that being in the wealthiest 10% back in RSA means you are in the weathiest 40% here. Ask yourself this, "out of only the 1st world people in RSA where do I rank?". There are no 2nd or 3rd world people here...but there are more peeps at the lower end of 1st world.

Add to that remember that the wealthiest 10% here mostly made their money through property and other local investments. Even if you are a doctor or a lawyer, how do you compete against a person who inherited a house that's worth today around A$2.5 million? There is a lot of " old money" in Sydney..

Cheers

[Riekie]

Without having read all the responses (time constraints...) I just have to mention that Cherrybrook Tech is a selective school and the only way you can get your kids in there is if you live within the school's zoning. (Or if your kids wrote and passed the selective schools test in Year 6) The school won't tell you the zoning area but any estate agent would be able to tell you if a house is in the zoning and they even post it on the ads of homes for rent or purchase as the school is very popular and it attracts prospective renters & buyers. That said, the demand for homes in the zoning area is extremely over-supplied and the market very competitive. Some people will pay 6 months rent in advance to secure a rental. Don't want to dishearten you but just thought you should keep this in mind.

[LeighM]

LeighM,

Nope, didn't know anyone at Church. We're Anglican and so I just looked at Sydney Anglican Churches and stumbled across our Church. I listened to a few sermons/podcasts, watched a few of the videos and read their mission statement and knew it was where we wanted to be.

I reached out to the pastor and we started chatting and he shared his vision for the Church, about the church itself etc and then over several e-mails we got to know about the suburb, the local schools, where his kids went and he even drew and overlaid the best areas to live within the catchment areas for families with an emphasis on access to parks and services like the Library etc.

In moving I took over a community garden in the neighbourhood and that allowed me to meet our neighbours, many of whom had kids and they've all helped in the garden and we had a roster for watering, had a sausage sizzle and worker bee to kick off (terms you'll soon learn) and it fostered a community that has allowed us very quickly to make friends and even though we have moved to different suburb we still have them over for meals. Just this past week we entertained 3 different sets of friends over meals at our place and our pastor came over for lunch today, so make that 4.

While I regularly meet up with and up have had offered advice and take people around on LSD's, 99% of our friends are Australian. It's just how it's worked out and it's probably helped settle us as quickly as we have.

Cheers

Matt

It's encouraging to see how quickly you have integrated into Aussie life. But it's also evident that you didn't sit around and wait for people to come to you, you got stuck into things and made the situation work for you. Definitely a strategy to learn from. Thanks Matt.

I love your description about throwing your family off a cliff and hoping they land somewhere soft (can't work the quote thingy) - it is exactly what it is. Choosing a place to live and go to school is a bit like dating - you never know when it will click.

We took the same approach of narrowing it down to three zones, ours were based primarily around the schools. The one school wouldn't even talk to us even if we were in zone - we knew we could fight it, but felt it wasn't worth it. The second school never ever answered their phone, so we focused all our energies on the third and fortunately it worked.

We also used google street view extensively to try and get a feel for the streets - keep in mind that you will be walking those pavements, the kids will be walking/riding their bikes to and from school, you will actually live in your community.

I would try to ensure you have access to public transport routes - even if it is drive to station and park. That will get you into the CBD without the traffic nightmare.

What I found very helpful was to ask people what they didn't like and then decide if those were things that bothered me or now. You seem to be on the right track - just remember that if you get it wrong, you can move, you can change. It is not ideal but nothing is cast in stone. You would be amazed how much stress is relieved just by allowing yourself an escape clause.

I like the idea of using Street View, starting doing that now and it makes a huge difference to get a real feel for the place.

On your comment about moving if you don't particularly like the area: I understand that schools would like to see a 12 month commitment to the suburb in the form of a rental agreement. How easy is it to get out of this agreement within the 12 month period? Is it better to just tough it out for 12 months and then move?

Without having read all the responses (time constraints...) I just have to mention that Cherrybrook Tech is a selective school and the only way you can get your kids in there is if you live within the school's zoning. (Or if your kids wrote and passed the selective schools test in Year 6) The school won't tell you the zoning area but any estate agent would be able to tell you if a house is in the zoning and they even post it on the ads of homes for rent or purchase as the school is very popular and it attracts prospective renters & buyers. That said, the demand for homes in the zoning area is extremely over-supplied and the market very competitive. Some people will pay 6 months rent in advance to secure a rental. Don't want to dishearten you but just thought you should keep this in mind.

Thanks Riekie. I have noticed that there is a direct correlation on property websites between the rental price and whether the home is zoned for Cherrybrook Tech.

[AFreshStart]

LeighM,

You can break lease, but there is normally a fee attached to it, in our case $1,000 and you are responsible for through rent until they can find a suitable tenant, up to 3-months, so beat that in mind, but it is possible.

Unless it's essential, I'd wait it out. We bought a property so in our case it was essential.

Cheers

Matt

[ottg]

Then schools: those that have the benefit of hindsight can recall how hard it is to research "the perfect school" from SA, because the reality is that may not even exist. There are great schools, good schools and less than good schools (hardly any bad schools). Again, being spoilt for choice makes internet research impossible.

You asked for a different approach. I was listening to the radio when a guy called David Gillespie was interviewed on his book "how to get your kids a great education without spending a fortune"

What stuck with me was his scientific approach how to select a school for his kids and the lessons learned. I copy this "... Like many parents, he and his wife faced some tough decisions when it came to choosing a high school. He calculated that sending his kids to a private school would cost him $1.3 million. A businessman at heart, he thought it worth doing some research to find out what he'd get for his money. In other words, would his kids get better results? The answer was no."

Its not about the size of classes, NAPLAN or ATARS but about the quality of teachers and the principal. But how do you find that? Its about independent schools (not private schools) that have the power to remove under performing staff and hire more effective ones.

There is an ebook here: http://www.panmacmillan.com.au/9781742612195

News article here: http://www.brightonsc.vic.edu.au/temp/downloads/Free%20Schools%20David%20Gilespie__2Feb2014.pdf

Hope it helps!!

[LeighM]

LeighM,

You can break lease, but there is normally a fee attached to it, in our case $1,000 and you are responsible for through rent until they can find a suitable tenant, up to 3-months, so beat that in mind, but it is possible.

Unless it's essential, I'd wait it out. We bought a property so in our case it was essential.

Cheers

Matt

Hmm, I'll take the wait it out options then and just take a little more time in the beginning choosing wisely. Glad it is an option as a last report though.

Its not about the size of classes, NAPLAN or ATARS but about the quality of teachers and the principal. But how do you find that? Its about independent schools (not private schools) that have the power to remove under performing staff and hire more effective ones.

Hope it helps!!

That's some food for thought right there. I hadn't really factored independent schools into the equation, will add them to the list as well to get an idea of what we like and what's affordable.

Helps a lot, thanks!

[BriD]

I remember being in your shoes researching until my brain exploded. And then ultimately none of it really helped. The best laid plans usually don't happen.

I cannot comment on the hills shire. However I live in the Sutherland shire and I ADORE it here. Stunningly beautiful and not that far from the city. We have just bought a townhouse in Sylvania. My husband works in Matraville and it takes him 20 minutes to drive to work at 6am.

As far as high schools go in the Shire (the sutherland shire is fondly known as "The Shire" / God's country - a bit of trivia for you there) the high school that is in the highest demand is Kirrawee High School. Also heard good things about Port Hacking High... But most people aiming for Kirrawee high. My kids are in kindy and preschool respectively. .. so that is as much info as I can give at this stage.

If you want more info on the shire feel free to message me. There are very few forumites living here (most are in the Hills) and just seeing that the shire is a place you have looked at warms my heart. I even have an "I love the shire" sticker on my car bumper. .. Yep that is how much it has grown into my heart.

Good luck with your research and congrats on your visa grant. Exciting times.

[LeighM]

I remember being in your shoes researching until my brain exploded. And then ultimately none of it really helped. The best laid plans usually don't happen.

I cannot comment on the hills shire. However I live in the Sutherland shire and I ADORE it here. Stunningly beautiful and not that far from the city. We have just bought a townhouse in Sylvania. My husband works in Matraville and it takes him 20 minutes to drive to work at 6am.

As far as high schools go in the Shire (the sutherland shire is fondly known as "The Shire" / God's country - a bit of trivia for you there) the high school that is in the highest demand is Kirrawee High School. Also heard good things about Port Hacking High... But most people aiming for Kirrawee high. My kids are in kindy and preschool respectively. .. so that is as much info as I can give at this stage.

If you want more info on the shire feel free to message me. There are very few forumites living here (most are in the Hills) and just seeing that the shire is a place you have looked at warms my heart. I even have an "I love the shire" sticker on my car bumper. .. Yep that is how much it has grown into my heart.

Good luck with your research and congrats on your visa grant. Exciting times.

Thanks so much for your feedback, BriD! It's really comforting to hear from a Shire local that it is a fantastic place to live. I don't know where I will be working yet, but we are quite enamoured by the Shire from our research thus far.

Thanks also for the offer of direct message, I may need to pick your brain on a few specifics.

Incidentally, I am already in conversation with the principal at Port Hacking, good to hear that the school comes recommended. I'll have a look at Kirrawee High as well.