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Convince your Spouse?


LaurenT28

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Hi everyone.

 

I need some help with hubby. We are not on the same page but I feel strongly about this. Here is our scenario:

 

So hubby would be the main appliant for 189 PR. We have just enough points if we lodge before his birthday in September. 

 

I belive we should be moving for the typical reasons - kids futures, safety and the uncertainty in South Africa’s future. Other reasons are the great adventure of living in a foreign country, pros of a first world country and also to work in a country where you are valued and earning decent money. 

 

Hubby feels that because he is not fully qualified in his field, that he will be starting at the bottom and will most likely never work from home again. I know we “have it good” currently, as he works from home (Durban) for a corporate in Joburg, he earns well, I don’t need to work. We have family close by. He has climbed the corporate ladder and is in a really good position. So his fears are only natural. 

 

What bothers me is he is completely oblivious to the happenings in the country because he refuses to read the news or social media. He is blissfully unaware of the political state of our country and doesn’t seem at all concerned about our kids futures or their education. 

 

Has anyone been in a similar situation or felt they needed to convince their spouses that a move to Oz would be the right choice?

 

I know it’s easy to think the grass is greener on the other side. I know there will be many sacrifices that will need to be made.. most likely by him. So the last thing I want is to go through this process only to get there and he resents me for it. 

 

*Rant over*

 

 

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I can’t say that we went through the situation of trying to convince a spouse, so I apologise in advance if my response does not answer your question directly🙂

 

Last year December my wife and  I were in Australia visiting family and decided that we should start getting the ball rolling. As you may be aware it can be a tedious process, we started getting everything together at the start of this year and have only submitted our official Visa application in October this year. The process for PR has definitely become more competitive the last few years. If you read the Aussie news you will also see that migration is being discussed quite regularly, so I do believe it will become increasingly difficult in the years to come. I may stand corrected. 

 

We are well aware of all the pro’s and con’s, both in SA and Aus and we have agreed it is the better move for us long term. I believe that all countries have their own problems, you just need to decide which problems you are willing to live with. The one thing you need to remember is that for each year passing this decision will most probably become harder to make. I have spoken to a few people who kept putting it off and now they sit in a situation where they are unable to make the move, be it age, children who are settled in school, worried about starting at the bottom of the ladder after working all these years. I just keep reminding myself, the sooner we make the move the sooner we can start to build a new life on the other side. Before you know it you will be settled in and speaking to people back in SA who are still considering if the move is right or not.

 

I think what I am trying to say is that this is in no way an easy decision for anyone, if you go through the threads on the forum you will read of many different problems some faced. However, you will also read of many who eventually made the jump and are now happily settled on the other side.

 

 

 

Edited by frosty
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As I was about to reply I saw @frosty replied with mostly what I was about to say.

Lauren, what you said about hubby's circumstances makes practically sense. If you take the emotions out then he is probably correct. Further, I'm sure he's not blind about the SA political situation & risks, however he is correct in not cluttering his daily life & decision making with the negatives in the media. That makes him successful in what he is doing and allows him to focus on his customers & the things that is important to him i.e you.

 

As you know, unfortunately a person cannot convince another person to do or to believe anything different. The other person needs to be open and willing to consider alternative options. This can only be achieved by reasoning. All you really can do is to put your points forward and listen why he agrees or disagrees with the argument at hand and try to get to a mutually understanding with give and take (negotiation) without using the hype or the sensational news from media or a few friends.

 

That said, this is a typical wicked problem with no right or wrong. In order to make an objective decision consider to use this tool from the book: The Three Secrets of Wise Decision Making (Anderson), page 132 refers. Use the Decision table method with added subtleties. Decide together the major decisions to be made, the value of decision criteria to be used and a scoring system. Let me know if you need a link to help you further.

 

Lastly, but only once you think he is starting to see it how you see it (which doesn't imply that how you see it is correct - there is no correct), tell him about your inner fears and how you really feel and the why.

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Hi  it is a hard road to travel. If you persuade him to do the application and he gets here and finds it diffficult then it could impact your marriage. Problem is that if you stay in SA and you get past 45 the Australia won’t allow you in. The truth is that when you look at the future where you and he could end up in SA alone as your kids will finish school and studies and then head for greener pastures it becomes a frightening future. I personally would rather be old in a first world country than in a country where you will end up alone and a target for crime. Immigration is tough but as a mother you will survive and adapt. You do start again and it is all strange at first. I am so  pleased that there is a chance to see my children marry and have there own children and be part of their lives going forward. Good luck with all of it. 

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A few things jumped out at me:

 

1. You have to both be on board before doing this. Immigration is HARD, it's hard on every person even if you were super excited to get here, so it'll just be harder for anyone who doesn't want to come, and you're going to need his support when it gets hard for you. Take the time to make the decision together, because your marriage will suffer as a result if you don't. 

2. Have you guys been to Oz? He may feel different when he's here. My husband and I both LOVE South Africa and would happily have stayed there forever, it's a great country even in the midst of the dangerous aspects. We moved for work, but on our first trip here we had some strange experiences in terms of how safe everything is, and especially going back to SA we were suddenly very aware of the risks that we had been totally used to. So it's possible that a trip here might change his mind?

3. You say that you'll have just enough points if you submit before his birthday. Does this mean you have 65 points if lodge by September and 55 after that? Depending on his occupation, 65 points will probably not be enough to get you an invite, especially within the next 8 months. Since this time last year the invites have been on the higher end of the points scale, weighted towards 75+ with a few 70s getting invites. You should consider state sponsorship for the extra 5 points (and for the fact that states are less concerned about max points and more about occupation lists).

 

Good luck!

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5 hours ago, ottg said:

In order to make an objective decision consider to use this tool from the book: The Three Secrets of Wise Decision Making (Anderson), page 132 refers. Use the Decision table method with added subtleties. Decide together the major decisions to be made, the value of decision criteria to be used and a scoring system. Let me know if you need a link to help you further.

Thank you for this. Will definitely give it a try. 

 

@Tntaglia no, we haven’t done a trip there before but I have quite a lot of family there. He is on 70 points but from what I’ve read people are not getting invites with 65 points in his occupation; actuary. 

 

I understand things would be hard, I expect this to be one of the toughest decisions, hence we need to be on the same page. 

 

We had a long chat about it last night and he is open to applying so that we have a plan B. He has agreed to doing the application but we will wait the 5 years before the visa expires to decide whether we are going or not and depending on the current state of our country. He will make the trip over to activate the visa. I know this may sound like a costly and roundabout way.. but it’s a compromise which I am more than happy to make. 

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@LaurenT28 I have a 190 NSW as actuary and applied with 65 points - got the invite from NSW within a couple of days of putting in the EOI. So if you're headed for Sydney you can try that?

My company hires a lot of actuaries, PM me if you want more details.

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So my wife and I were never really interested in moving to Aus, you know very much part of the anti Aus brigade. I had however always been interested in living and working abroad.

 

My mom had been on my case for ages about how I should move to Aus and eventually paid for tickets for my wife and I to come to my cousin's wedding in Ballina. We came on holiday, with the thought planted by my mom about potential moving, and were so impressed by the country that we had moved less than 8 months later. 

 

Initially we saw it as a short term thing, 2 years of living somewhere new, great experience etc. However after experiencing the huge step up in lifestyle we have pretty much decided to make it permanent now. We had a pretty great life in SA as well, both of us being young well paid professionals with no kids, but the freedom you gain not having huge wealth disparity between people is astounding. We are probably less well off relatively in Aus but feel we have a higher standard of living.

 

Anyway, the long and short of what I am saying is come here on holiday, chances are it'll bring your husband around.

 

Anecdotally, my father who despite never having been to Aus absolutely hated the place very reluctantly came to visit us a month ago. He was so impressed that he completely changed his mind about the country and now can't wait to come back

Edited by Duggen
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It is amazing how people’s perspectives change once they actually visit Australia. To be honest in general South Africans are quite negative towards Australia. Before my first visit there for a cousins wedding I would never have thought I would want to live there. 

 

As @Tntaglia mentioned, SA is a great country, I believe one could easily make a life here. I therefore believe ones decision to make the move should not be purely based on the state of the SA, but also needs to be something you want to do. 

 

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Speaking from personal experience - once you get the visa - move then and there. Do not wait for the five years to move over! Starting from scratch is very hard and by waiting an additional five years you just delay the inevitable. Move soon, start your new life sooner rather than later. I agree with what was said previously - you have to be on the same page as your partner. Immigration will push you to your limits and will test your relationship.

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19 hours ago, TamTam said:

Speaking from personal experience - once you get the visa - move then and there. Do not wait for the five years to move over! Starting from scratch is very hard and by waiting an additional five years you just delay the inevitable. Move soon, start your new life sooner rather than later. I agree with what was said previously - you have to be on the same page as your partner. Immigration will push you to your limits and will test your relationship.

 

I agree with this - we're in our early 40s now, and I look around at people who had the opportunity to get into the housing market for example when it was much cheaper, and it's hard that we're just behind financially. Our retirement planning in SA was ahead of schedule, and now we're so far behind what we need in Australian terms to retire comfortably, it's laughable. If you think you're going to make the move, do it sooner rather than later.

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