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Cashing out Retirement Annuities without being a citizen


Kodplessis

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Hi all,

 

Does anyone know whether it is possible (or more difficult to) to financially emigrate (and cashing out your Retirement Annuities) in South Africa if you are not a South African citizen anymore? 

 

I believe when one acquires citizenship of another country and not specifically request to retain South African citizenship, you loose it automatically. If you go through the formal renunciation of South African citizenship process, can you still 'financially emigrate' afterwards?

 

Thanks

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I don't think they care whether you're a citizen or not.  This is a SARS matter not a home affairs matter so I don't think it will have an impact.

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Thanks Chris - I was thinking the same, but was hoping anyone on this forum have actually gone through the process. Cheers

 

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7 hours ago, ChrisH said:

I don't think they care whether you're a citizen or not.  This is a SARS matter not a home affairs matter so I don't think it will have an impact.

Not 100% correct, its a huge issue as SARS is using an invalid SA ID as you renounce it. See the technical reply below, Try change SARS records to show a passport number - easier to export snow to Iceland!

Edited by Hugo2
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7 hours ago, Kodplessis said:

Hi all,

 

Does anyone know whether it is possible (or more difficult to) to financially emigrate (and cashing out your Retirement Annuities) in South Africa if you are not a South African citizen anymore? 

 

I believe when one acquires citizenship of another country and not specifically request to retain South African citizenship, you loose it automatically. If you go through the formal renunciation of South African citizenship process, can you still 'financially emigrate' afterwards?

 

Thanks

 Good day

 

we have to ensure we do not confuse issues and when you refer to the formal process or renunciation vs having lost the right to a SA passport

 

If you renounce your nationality, you are obliged to advertise in the Gov Gazette and hence forth you have huge compliance in issues in. All you bank accounts are frozen, your property ownership is in limbo (not lost) and your home affairs status "dead" . The only solution is to a do sworn affidavit and follow an  Apostille den Haag

to show to all SA government agencies, SARS included that "dead" SA ID is now Foreign Country Passport Number. Every time you passport is changed, you have to update this process. SARS then insist you update their records in person at a SA office or a full Embassy abroad. Good luck.

 

Until the retirement fund and SARS have recorded the new passport and removed all traces to SA, will the tax directive be possible. Formal emigration will be a breeze but cashing out is a nightmare

 

If you have lost you right to a SA passport, you remain entitled to a SA Green Bar Coded ID and if you have it replaced, the often replace it with a ID reading non-citizen. Your ID number does NOT change and you can formally emigrate and cash out with ease.

 

You do not need a SA ID to open a bank account and we have separate part of the tax laws dealing with the departure of persons never having had a SA ID number. But be aware, do not formally renounce your SA ID number (formal GG process) before you 110% sure you have NO but NO more assets or interests in SA. I was once told your wedding certificate may even need to be refreshed but not being a lawyer, I have never seen this being done

 

If you lost your right to use a passport you can enter SA to work, no visa and no work permit required. This included Namibian passports holders with SA ID's ie being born South West Africa or Walvisbay (during Namibia for period while it was a SA city.

 

About 1-2 years after returning and working in SA on a SA ID, you can have your SA Passport re-instated. I am told you do not need to renounce the second passport. For more on this speak to www.bic-immigration.com

 

They state:

 

(1) If [2nd Nationality]  was obtained through naturalisation:

  • SA Citizenship was lost the day the second nationality was granted;
  • As a former SA Citizen by birth, you still hold the right to SA permanent residence status; or
  • Upon permanent return to SA, you can apply to have your citizenship re-instated

OR

(2) If other nationality was obtained through descent:

  • Applicant is still seen as a SA Citizen by birth

The first letter stated above will enable you to travel to SA whilst utilising your second passport, without having any difficulty at the SA port of entry. Without this letter, you will likely be fined since the current SA Citizenship Act stipulates that any person who has the right to a SA passport, must enter and leave South African borders on his/her SA passport and not a foreign one (your place of birth in your overseas passport is shown as South Africa).

BIC will gladly assist you with the determination of your SA nationality.

 

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Update: I spoke to someone who has lost their SA ID number, due to the formal GG process. She told me that she has at time, used a certified copy of her cancelled (revoked) ID but it was an old birth entry ID, ie it has the 00 as second and third last letters. It is was used when her life insurance were taken out and the fund could verify that number as the birth entry number was not removed from the Home Affair system She also had to do the Apostille stating that the person in the birth certificate is also the person mentioned in the new foreign passport, which then also states her SA City of birth. She underlined the comment: cash out and sell all your SA interests before you advertise within GG. Her biggest regret was not having a driving license in the foreign country before she renounced.  I think this may have changed as the license required in Australia is now universal ie the SA license is no longer valid for long term residents of Oz

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Hi Hugo, Thanks for the update - seems like it is better to Financially Emigrate and get all that sorted out before one pursues the official renunciation process. Can you please explain the difference between "renunciation vs having lost the right to a SA passport" as per your earlier post?

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@Kodplessis if you apply for another country’s Citizenship (without applying for, and receiving permission to keep your SA Citizenship first), you automatically lose your SA Citizenship and cannot renew your passport. You must get a letter from Home Affairs acknowledging that you want to keep your Citizenship BEFORE applying for your Aus Citizenship. I believe this letter can take 9-12 months to arrive, so no harm in doing it early, it won’t expire.

 

Note: This does not apply to children, only adults. Children automatically keep their SA Citizenship. I’m not sure if the cut-off is 16 or 18 nowadays - can check this with the HC in Canberra)

 

Renunciation of Citizenship is a formal process which is kind of unnecessary anyway (I don’t know how you go about it, but why would you, anyway?) iykwim.

 

Hope it helps

Edited by Bonny
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23 hours ago, Bonny said:

you automatically lose your SA Citizenship

 

There are entire threads on this stuff, yes it is automatic by law but unfortunately not by system.  The South African home affairs system will still list you as a citizen so you have to do a determination of citizenship for them to update their system.

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11 hours ago, ChrisH said:

 

There are entire threads on this stuff, yes it is automatic by law but unfortunately not by system.  The South African home affairs system will still list you as a citizen so you have to do a determination of citizenship for them to update their system.

So I guess if you don’t do anything about it, then you will find out you lost your Citizenship when you cannot renew your SA passport?

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