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Our surprise Sydney journey


Tntaglia

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There are many NGOs in Australia working on Asian and African projects. See http://dfat.gov.au/aid/who-we-work-with/ngos/Pages/list-of-australian-accredited-non-government-organisations.aspx.

Your husband could do a lot of good here, even setting up an Australian branch of his current employer.

 

As everyone says, come for the adventure and enjoy yourself. Australians and other 1st world citizens happily explore other lands, live there for a while and if they like it stay. What's with the South African psychie that it turns into an acrimonious divorce with a huge guilt trip to decide to move somewhere?

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On 06/08/2017 at 4:43 PM, SimpleSimon said:

As everyone says, come for the adventure and enjoy yourself. Australians and other 1st world citizens happily explore other lands, live there for a while and if they like it stay. What's with the South African psychie that it turns into an acrimonious divorce with a huge guilt trip to decide to move somewhere?

 

 

South Africans are notoriously bad with the "let live" part of "Live, and let live." I think it's because South Africa has so many issues, it's not exactly a free exchange going on. Many are stuck in the country even though they dearly want to leave, so they feel 'left behind' more acutely. In other countries as you said, it's more an adventure/temporary mindset.

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I hear you and when we left, we were part of the "chicken run".  

However, how are Elon Musk, Charleze Theron, Marius Kloppers and so on regarded - "traitors, who left people in the lurch" or "Our South African heroes"?

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On 8/3/2017 at 3:48 AM, SimpleSimon said:

Wow, walking into a job in Australia straight off the plane and earning $150 - $200K as an IT program manager, CA or Actuary. I would jump at that.

My experience is that people with those sorts of qualifications earn 1/2 of that to start and build up to those salaries after ~ 10 years Australian experience and if they are very good at what they do.

I'd be interested to hear other experiences, am I completely out of touch?

 

Based on my experience is the knowledge "level" is not up to SA standard in some ways, once you know how the Australian way of working is then your skills can be utilized in a very positive way of working. I feel South African so not have to stand back and get intimidated by big salaries, most of us can do the job, go and apply for those $150K upwards (if you have the skills)

 

**You should be at least looking at 2 x your SA annual salary to be at the same standard what you have done is SA. Most of us had to go through a strict process to get in to Aus, we are well qualified and have very good work ethics.

 

** My experience and wife [Financial and IT]

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I understand.

 

CFO's, Finance Managers and Financial Controllers earn big bucks. Similarly for IT project managers, CIO's and head of security. 

 

However, getting those positions isn't easy. It's not just about how good you are technically, it's about whether you can lead a team, not intimidate your colleagues and please your boss.

 

In terms of how good Australians are, in Australia I work with CFO's from different backgrounds - Yanks, Poms, Dutch, Germans, Ozzie, Indians, Chinese etc. They all have sophisticated ERP systems to play with, have to deal with tens of thousands of tax laws as well as other legislation, and typically work for multinationals and have to deal with overseas mandates (e.g. Sarbanes Oxley). They seem to do a pretty good job from where I sit.

Edited by SimpleSimon
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11 minutes ago, SimpleSimon said:

I understand.

 

CFO's, Finance Managers and Financial Controllers earn big bucks. Similarly for IT project managers, CIO's and head of security. 

 

However, getting those positions isn't easy. It's not just about how good you are technically, it's about whether you can lead a team, not intimidate your colleagues and please your boss.

 

In terms of how good Australians are, in Australia I work with CFO's from different backgrounds - Yanks, Poms, Dutch, Germans, Ozzie, Indians, Chinese etc. They all have sophisticated ERP systems to play with, have to deal with tens of thousands of tax laws as well as other legislation, and typically work for multinationals and have to deal with overseas mandates (e.g. Sarbanes Oxley). They seem to do a pretty good job from where I sit.

 

Totally understand and agree, it also comes down to the right time right place. The feeling I mostly get is that we do not back our-self enough to be able to go for these salaries. There is definite good skills ...but room for a lot more skilled labor. :-)

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A lot of South African accountants and IT professionals that I know sit in very good position now in Australia and occupy the jobs I mention- CFO's, Head of Security, CIO's etc.

 

I believe I it's because as @ShaunR says they are well qualified, highly skilled and used to leading big teams. And in fact, those who emigrate seem to be the cream and obviously have a lot of guts leaping into the unknown. Demanding a good salary is not such a challenge after being through all of that. Furthermore, my South African friends and relatives (and me) are ambitious and impatient to get to a decent standard of living in this adopted land.

 

However, I see a lot of support staff in the companies where we work e,g, payroll officers, accounts payable and receivable, network administrators etc. earning maybe $80K. And a lot are ozzies. This is above the national average and they generally seem happy with their job and pay and very hesitant to ask for more.

 

Apart from our exceptional skills and attitude, we South African expats are focussed, know what needs to be done and are happy to tell anyone this. i guess this is why we've earned the reputation of being arrogant and entitled.

 

In our case, we came over with out jobs and our first few years were tough because of this. If we had been offered a job before coming here on a top 10% salary, it would have been paradise.

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  • 3 weeks later...

So a good update: We have basically finished negotiating salary and contract and I'm pretty happy. Received a decent increase on the original salary offer, plus moving costs of $12,000 and flights now included. I don't have the contract in writing yet but we've agreed all the bits and pieces so hopefully soon it will all be official!

 

We put our house on the market this week - agent expects to sell it in 2-3 months, possibly up to Jan/Feb at the latest. Now we're busy tidying up the little bits and pieces to get the house in perfect condition, and meanwhile I'm starting to put all the stuff we won't take along on gumtree and giving away etc. It's going to be pretty hard work, and emotional too, but for the moment it's quite freeing to just get rid of stuff and declutter a bit. 

 

I'm not sure how long the visa is going to take (we're going across on 457 and then doing an employer-sponsored 186 visa - in the meantime we'll lodge interest for 189/190 separately and if that comes through we'll cancel the 186 idea) but if all goes according to plan we'll probably land somewhere between Jan and March. So probably 6 short months away!

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Up-an-up! You've come a long way from the first posts: "Should I even try this???" :) 

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Now there's a snag in the journey. My new employer just let me know that they don't have the right to sponsor visas (457 or 186) due to being too new in the market and not spending enough on training. The holdings company can sponsor visas but the latest legislation includes a clause that holdings companies cannot sponsor visas on behalf of subsidiaries. They're getting legal advice to see how big a problem this is going to be.

 

However, it may be good news - I'm still fighting with them and my current employer to pay for a PR visa. If a 457 is not an option, we have to do 189/190 and then they'd have no choice but to pay for it. Or at least I hope so. I should know more in the next few days. 

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Good news: My company have agreed to pay for the PR visa! This is huge. They're still trying to pass the cost along to my new employer but at least they've agreed in principle that it should not be my expense. Very happy.

 

I have also booked plane tickets and accommodation, and applied for a temp visa for our LSD trip to Sydney in October. It's officially a business trip (I'm presenting at a conference and then spending a week in the office at my new company) but my husband is coming along for the first week and we'll use the time for him to explore the city and the weekends and evenings to get a feel for where we'd like to be etc. I'm getting really excited.

 

No news yet about the 457 visa situation but hopefully we'll have some clarity soon. I really don't want to wait for a PR visa before we go, that can be another 18 months.

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Two pieces of news: I did the VETASSESS application today. It's been hanging over me for months and months and in the end it was actually not that hard. We didn't use an agent - a colleague of mine used an agent, same profession, and sent me the docs that they submitted so I'm confident that we gave everything we needed to. I also paid for priority processing so I should hear back in 10 working days. Next week Wednesday hubby is doing PTE (I've already done mine, he just needs to prove basic English) so hopefully by the time VETASSESS gives an answer we will have everything ready to lodge our 189/190 EOI. The plan is then to go for the medicals and apply for police clearance immediately after lodging EOI, so that those can also be done by the time we hear back. I'm positive that we can get this done fairly soon. My occupation limit is 1000 and they've only invited 4 people since July so I think we have a good chance for an invite, even though I'll only have 65 points (70 for 190). 

 

The other news is that my new employer thinks they've sorted out the visa issue, they are applying for clearance to sponsor visas in the next 2 weeks and will apply for my 457 at the same time. It should take roughly 3 months according to the lawyers which means there's a good chance we'll have a visa by Jan. This is getting real, fast. I'm very excited today.

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They say that "action liberates thought". Well done on the progress. 

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Just heard this morning that my application doesn't qualify for Vetassess priority processing because there are documents missing. No idea which documents, I was very sure I had given them everything they asked for, so now we wait for further news. I'm really despondent about this - it sets the whole process back another 2 months. It was already almost impossible to get the PR visas in a reasonable timeframe, and now the timeframe moves back even further. 

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Golly, you're putting yourself on a roller coaster.

 

I don't understand all the technical details about the different visas (in my day you could only apply for one  = Permanent Residency which took us 3 years from time of application).

 

However it looks like its heading in the right direction. It will happen, it's just a question of time.

 

In the meantime enjoy your last days/months in South Africa. Visit the Kruger, Drakensberg, Cape etc. Pretend you're a tourist and enjoy all the beautiful things the country has to offer. Life doesn't end and begin depending on arrival in Australia. This is just one part of your adventure as a citizen of the world.

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Some good news at least, we got our visitor visas for the look-see-decide trip in October. I wasn't really worried about it, except when we did the biometrics on 13 September and the guy said it'll be 30 working days - eek! I guess that's the outside estimate because we received the visas less than a week later. So full steam ahead for a quick trip, hopefully we'll absolutely love it!

 

Thanks for the advice @SimpleSimon, we are doing exactly that now. Leaving on Saturday to go camping in Kosi Bay, it's been on the bucket list for years but the one time we were booked to go it rained out. Kids are on holiday from tomorrow, probably their last short school holiday before we go; if all goes according to plan we'll have at least the 457 visa by Jan.

 

Overall it does feel like things are moving in the right direction so it's all good. There's just SO MUCH to do! The house is on the market, we're busy painting and touching up all the little things that need to happen, hopefully the right buyer will come along before the end of the year. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Still more movement - slow but there. Received another copy of the job contract, just one error on it so I sent it back for them to fix but hopefully I'll have the package we negotiated in print in the next day or so. Then ready to sign! I really want the contract signed now, it feels so much more official.

 

Hectically busy preparing for our LSD trip, leaving Friday night. We're also spending all the money we should have spent tidying up the house & garden to make it easier to sell - frustrating that someone else will get to enjoy it, we should have done this years ago, but it's looking good so far. Slowly but surely ticking off things from the list. 

 

I also heard back from Vetassess - the reason they declined my priority processing request is that I didn't give them proof of income from my previous job (which was 9 years ago) - I honestly didn't think they'd need it since they need proof that I've been doing this for 8 years or more and I've been at my current employer since Nov 2008, but anyway. Luckily my efiling records go back all the way to 2007 so I could copy those and upload. And that reminded me to do my taxes for this year, which was quick and I'm getting a bit of money back. So all good.

 

Holding thumbs that Vetassess gets back to me quickly! Once I have a contract signed my new company will apply for my 457 visa but I also want to lodge the EOI ASAP so that we can hopefully upgrade to a PR visa not too long after arrival. 

 

At the moment I'm trying to figure out what the best thing is to do with the kids' school. Technically we have to give a term's notice if they're going to leave the school - so if I believe we're moving to Oz in January/February I should give them notice this week (term 4 starts next Tuesday). It would be really stupid to only give notice in Jan and then we leave by end of the month and we're liable for 2 more months of school fees at private school rates... but then I remember that we don't have a visa yet and there's a chance everything gets pushed back a couple more months and the kids don't have a school. So I'm going to email the principal now and ask for advice - there's a chance they'll be willing to let the kids stay on for a month next year even if they have already officially given notice and if that's true then it's another less thing to worry about.

 

It's starting to feel pretty real! Hubby is having a hard time with the move, since I'm the one with the job and we don't know what the move means for his career - he's really supportive and agrees that we should do it, but he's not feeling excited about it. I hope that the trip to Sydney next week helps him.

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Job contract signed and sent off! 

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Cool!

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  • 3 weeks later...

I received my positive skills assessment today. I wasn't really expecting it yet, it took about 7 weeks from when I submitted and only 4 from when they confirmed that they have all documents - it was supposed to be 10-12. But super relieved. That's the last bit of the puzzle before we lodge EOI, which I'll hopefully do in the next 24 hours. The 457 visa application is also in so hopefully one way or another we'll have a visa early next year, and if all goes well we can convert that to PR soon after.

 

I spent the last 2 weeks in Sydney on a combination business / LSD trip. It was really amazing, stressful and nerve-wracking all at the same time. The city is absolutely beautiful - I'm stunned. Blown away. Everything was amazing, people were friendly, everything worked. It feels a bit unreal - the bit that really got to me was using public bathrooms at one of the beaches and there was hot water in the taps. Hot water! In SA we're lucky if the public bathrooms are vaguely clean enough that you don't get too grossed out using them, usually there is no toilet paper and no soap and in all likelihood no water in the taps. It was awesome to see a society that just works. 

 

My husband spent the week that he was there with me going from area to area trying to figure out where we'll live. One of the forum members was kind enough to drive us around the north shore area the day after we arrived, which helped a lot to give us context on the suburbs. We are still not 100% sure where we'll end up but we have decided that close access to the trains on either the Chatswood to Hornsby line or along the Epping/Macquarie Park line is really important. We'll try to keep it to an hour from the CBD. I would absolutely love taking the ferry to work every day but it doesn't look like we can make that happen in our budget so north shore area it is. He also met with a couple of principals of the schools so we have a better idea around the schools and it's all looking really positive. 

 

The week that I spent working in the new office was also really positive. Amazing view from the office, it's in the CBD and on the 23rd floor so we have a (partially obstructed) view of the harbour bridge, opera house and the harbour all the way to Manly. I liked the people and the culture, so I am looking forward to working there. We had a company day out in the Hunter Valley, it's an annual thing which was a lot of fun and a great way to meet a lot of people. So all in all really positive.

 

We are of course freaked out by the cost of housing - I mean we know how expensive it is from research but it's all very real now that we've seen the places. Other things don't seem to be that expensive compared to SA, groceries are pretty much the same on average, and we went walking around shopping malls to get a sense of clothes and appliances and so on. Eating out is of course much more expensive but luckily my husband really likes cooking so we'll just eat out much less than we do now. And of course once our PR visa comes through things get a little easier with less tax etc.

 

Anyway, I'm happy to be home, a little scared because it's all so much more real now, but it's great that we're moving forward.

 

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So I've lodged our EOI (189 and 190 for NSW), and now I'm trying to forget about it because I will drive myself insane if I keep reading and thinking and obsessing. I read about people who get invited in the first round after lodging and about people who wait 2 years and if this happens we'll be somewhere in the middle. I have 65 points for 189 and 70 for 190, so we have a chance for an invite in the next few months but I am trying really hard not to get any hopes up.

 

Meanwhile we have our medical assessments this coming week, and we'll lodge police clearances later in the weekend - I have to do those anyway for the 457 visa and then they'll be ready should an invite happen.

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@Tntaglia Sounds like you are well on track and what an exciting journey you have a head of you. Great opportunity you had to visit Sydney and your workplace to help into when you finally move over. 

 

You referred to things getting easier with tax once PR came through? What do you mean by that? 

 

Are you working through an agent? We only did our medicals and police clearance after we received the invite. 

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29 minutes ago, Clauderoy said:

You referred to things getting easier with tax once PR came through? What do you mean by that? 

 

As I understand it we'll have a slightly lower tax rate once we are on PR (this is just from an online tax calculator that I used, where if I tick a box saying we don't have permanent residency it calculates more tax and less take-home pay). It's not a big difference though and I may understand it wrong so maybe there's nothing there.

 

We have not signed up an agent yet, but I think we probably will. We have to get the medicals and PC anyway now for the 457 visa - hopefully we'll end up getting the invite before the results expire but if they do we'll just have to get the tests done again.

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It's all happening now! We went for our medicals yesterday, pretty uneventful. The doctor did not regard my husband's back condition as in any way significant, but he did mark "abnormal" for his heart condition. He said he doesn't expect it to be a problem, but the Aus government will look at it to make a decision. We have a report from the cardiologist explaining the nature of his condition and stating that he needs only minor check-up care annually. 

 

Then this morning we received the invite to apply for NSW nomination for 190 visa - we have 14 days to complete that. I'm going to try and get it done today if I can, as I understand it's pretty much just submitting the documents proving the stuff I said in my EOI but I need to research a bit more. We will go for police clearances over the weekend (need it for the 457 visa anyway).

 

Sunday we're showing the house - hopefully that goes well and we can get an offer. 

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Out of interest, why are you selling your house now?

 

We moved to Sydney from Melbourne and kept our Melbourne house until we were ready to buy in Sydney.

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