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mrniceguy

Hi All,

We are ready to apply for citizenship but the dreaded decision is holding us back.

"Do we apply for retention of ZA citizenship?"

I have read many posts here and understand that it is a personal choice based on our own circumstances

That accepted, I am needing to know the following in this scenario:

  • We (Adults) don't apply for retention
  • Kids (both) under 18 will by default retain their citizenship
  • We (entire family) travel to South Africa on holiday
  • We (Adults) use Aussie passports
  • What passports do kids enter South Africa on?

In this article (2013), a Swiss-Aussie living here for 40 years could not return to Australia as the Aussie government cannot interfere when you are in a country where you hold dual citizenship.

Assuming South Africa make military service compulsory for a specific age group and we travel to ZA; our kids could be forced to serve and there is nothing the Australian government can do about it.

Information sourced:

From SmartTraveller.com.au:

What is dual nationality?

Many Australians are migrants, children of migrants or were born overseas. This means that many Australians are dual nationals or could be regarded as dual nationals by another country. You may not even know that you're a dual national.

If you are a dual national, your dual nationality may have implications for you if you travel to the country of your other nationality. For example:

  • you might be liable for military service
  • you might be liable for prosecution for offences under the laws of that country, even if they were committed outside it
  • if the government of that country doesn't recognise dual nationality, the ability of the Australian Government to provide consular assistance may be limited.

Confusion does not begin to describe... :blush:

(..and it's true; this is a first world problem...)

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RichardH

I would either have all of you retain SA citizenship or none of you retain SA citizenship:

Retain SA citizenship

Kids do nothing, you and your wife apply to retain and then get Aussie citizenship.

Renounce \ Lose citizenship

you and your wife do nothing and apply for Aussie citizenship now.

Kids renounce their SA citizenship when they are 18

What do you really want to keep it for?

What are the odds of SA bringing back compulsory military service?

In my experience African countries (e.g. Zim & Zambia) don't want you to have multiple citizenship and will make you chose one day.

If you don't really need SA citizenship then I would get rid of it but that's my opinion.

If you ever had to go back to SA permanently then you are a permanent resident anyway so what's the bother?

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21yearsoutofrsa

If you ever had to go back to SA permanently then you are a permanent resident anyway so what's the bother?

Depends. If you are an RSA citizen by birth then absolutely correct. If you are a RSA citizen by decent or naturalization, then you have no such rights.

Edited by 19yearsoutofrsa

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elleneo

You can renounce your child's for her. If not the children have to enter South Africa on sa passports. You use the country that u are ins passport ( sa for sa and oz for oz) .

If your kids were born in SA all you are doing by retaining their citizenship is forcing yourself to keep two passports current at all times. We didn't bother renouncing our daughters as citizenship as we are not planning on going to South Africa, and if we do, it will be without her, one of us for a funeral or whatnot. If she had to had to go I'd renounce her citizenship before we go.

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mrniceguy

Seems that ZA prefer to have us renounce our citizenship; they make it easier and cheaper (read: no fee) to apply for renunciation of our citizenship. Was reading iol.co.za to remind me why we left in the first place...didn't take too long :ph34r:

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SandraDee

They are already throwing the idea of Compulsory army duty around at the moment. Some are suggesting conscription as a way of giving the youths jobs while others are calling for Compulsory national duty. It was on news24 a few days ago.

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elleneo

You don't have to renounce if you just do your Aussie citizenship without notifying them then you automatically lose your so citizenship. You will have to renounce the kids'

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SurferMan

Oh great Elleno,

I was wanting to post my stuff back the same day I got citizenship, was worried about the kids. Now that I know I can renounce on their behalf, awesome.

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RichardH

Depends. If you are an RSA citizen by birth then absolutely correct. If you are a RSA citizen by decent or naturalization, then you have no such rights.

My father who is a SA citizen by descent and has always lived in Zambia renounced his SA citizenship in the 1970s. It was not a good idea to be a SA citizen there in the 1970s-1980s with a state of emergency in place :whome: .. He resumed it about 10 years ago, all without ever being resident in SA. His renunciation letter stated that he always had the right to resume his citizenship. I know a huge amount has changed since then but I would be interested to hear from people who have renounced their SA citizenship what the renunciation letter says about this. I would definitely not like to have to ever apply for SA PR properly :cry:

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mrniceguy

They are already throwing the idea of Compulsory army duty around at the moment. Some are suggesting conscription as a way of giving the youths jobs while others are calling for Compulsory national duty. It was on news24 a few days ago.

I read this article last night; that's what worries me.

My kids are basically growing up Aussie..why would they need to go and serve in ZA; a country that did little for them?

This, for me, is a serious risk to be avoided.

Look what happened to pro golfer:

Pro-golfer Bae Sang Moon loses conscription lawsuit, must return to Korea for mandatory military service

http://goo.gl/lfj6Am

While that article refers to South Korea; the concept is the same, should ZA decide they need their citizens back to fight their plight

(..all of this is my 2c in South African Rands so it may not be worth much with the current exchange rate ..)

.. but I would be interested to hear from people who have renounced their SA citizenship what the renunciation letter says about this. I would definitely not like to have to ever apply for SA PR properly :cry:

I'd like to know this also..

Edited by mrniceguy

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SurferMan

You cannot reverse enforce military conscription into a youth that has no bind to that nation. Even the Nats could not do it. But even so, yet another reason to ditch my kids SA rights. We are Aussie now, for better or worse.

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