Lawyer in Aus?

[Hempies]

Hi All

I was hoping some of you knowledgeable people could help me out with ome information. My wife will be admitted to the roll of lawyers on 7 Feb 2014. She has completed her B. Comm. (LLB) degree(s) at University of Stellenbosch and (it goes without saying) passed all of her board exams.

Now we are really considering the move, but I need more info for her with regards to the law in Aus. So far that I know is that each state has its own set of laws (yes, lamens terms here!). So it really depends in which state we end up. The firm she currently works at specializes in commercial property law. And when I say specialize, I mean that they represent about 70% of the country's shopping malls.

I would like to know, what would her steps be to be able to practice law in Aus? Will there be like a bridge-type course and exam? Or... I dont really know how to ask it in another way.

Any lawyers from SA out there with some advice/tips/ideas etc?

Thanks a plenty

[KyleV]

Hi Hempies,

I am going to be admitted as an attorney shortly (beginning of the year as well). Each state is different with regards to what they require, I am looking at going through NSW as it seems to be the easiest at this point in time.

I have been in contact with various people to decipher this whole process. I will break all of this down for you below, please keep in mind that this is the process if one goes through NSW -

step 1: get your degree assessed by the Legal Profession Admission Board ("LPAB") in Sydney (this is done by filling in form 16 for academic exemptions and paying the fee of A$220).

step 2: once you receive the assessment back, you will know where you stand as far as which subjects your wife will have to undertake to convert her degree to one equivalent to an Australian LLB (I received my assessment back in about 3 weeks and I only have to redo Aus Constitutional law, property law and Equity (which is an English law principle)).

step 3: Convert the degree, I am going through the University of New England in NSW as I can do it via correspondence while I am still in RSA (However, this process is not cheap at all! It will cost approximately R 100 000 to complete! but in the bigger picture, it will be money very well spent and will most definitely be worth it).

step 4: once your wife has completed the conversion, then (I am still trying to ascertain whether or not I can do my PLT classes (your wife will know what these are) while I am doing the conversion or if I can only do it after I have completed the conversion, I will let you know once I receive clarity on this specific point - In NSW, form 17 is used to apply for exemption from PLT's I have read somewhere that most RSA attorneys only have to re-write legal bookkeeping and ethics) then your wife will have to apply for admission as a Solicitor of the supreme Court of whichever state you may land up in (thankfully, it does not matter where the conversion takes place (which state that is) or which state your wife will be admitted in as they have recognition agreements between the states).

I hope this helps, I will, in the meantime look for the link to the LPAB I think I have it saved somewhere. If you have any other questions, you are welcome to ask, hopefully I can answer them.

KyleV.

[Barbara1]

Hi Hempies,

I am going to be admitted as an attorney shortly (beginning of the year as well). Each state is different with regards to what they require, I am looking at going through NSW as it seems to be the easiest at this point in time.

I have been in contact with various people to decipher this whole process. I will break all of this down for you below, please keep in mind that this is the process if one goes through NSW -

step 1: get your degree assessed by the Legal Profession Admission Board ("LPAB") in Sydney (this is done by filling in form 16 for academic exemptions and paying the fee of A$220).

step 2: once you receive the assessment back, you will know where you stand as far as which subjects your wife will have to undertake to convert her degree to one equivalent to an Australian LLB (I received my assessment back in about 3 weeks and I only have to redo Aus Constitutional law, property law and Equity (which is an English law principle)).

step 3: Convert the degree, I am going through the University of New England in NSW as I can do it via correspondence while I am still in RSA (However, this process is not cheap at all! It will cost approximately R 100 000 to complete! but in the bigger picture, it will be money very well spent and will most definitely be worth it).

step 4: once your wife has completed the conversion, then (I am still trying to ascertain whether or not I can do my PLT classes (your wife will know what these are) while I am doing the conversion or if I can only do it after I have completed the conversion, I will let you know once I receive clarity on this specific point - In NSW, form 17 is used to apply for exemption from PLT's I have read somewhere that most RSA attorneys only have to re-write legal bookkeeping and ethics) then your wife will have to apply for admission as a Solicitor of the supreme Court of whichever state you may land up in (thankfully, it does not matter where the conversion takes place (which state that is) or which state your wife will be admitted in as they have recognition agreements between the states).

I hope this helps, I will, in the meantime look for the link to the LPAB I think I have it saved somewhere. If you have any other questions, you are welcome to ask, hopefully I can answer them.

KyleV.

KyleV,

What visa have you applied for and when do you intend to travel? The reason I ask is that my daughter is currently in Brisbane, she has a LLB and is currently doing her conversion course by correspondence through QUT. She qualified for FEEhelp as the conversion course is required for her to be able to work in her field. You do need to be in australia at the time of applying for FEEhelp and have a PR. If you need more info, I am sure she will be able to help.

[KyleV]

Hi Barbara1,

I have not applied for my visa yet, I need to be admitted as a Solicitor in Australia before I can apply for a visa, I am starting my conversion in January, Thankfully my dad will be helping me with the fees. I intend to lease RSA as soon as I have my visa, I will be finished my conversion by October next year (this is unfortunately due to the semesters in which UNE offers the subjects.)

I will be applying for a 189 visa when the time comes as Solicitors are on the SOL.

Thank you so much for that info, I will PM you if I have any questions, always nice to have as much information as possible!

[Izzy]

Hi you can do form 16-academic exemption and form 17 together-practicle subjects. then you have to study the courses. the academic ones that you do through UNE are semesterised but the College of law for the prac subjects are done on your own with the computer-no actual lectures. the academic subjects are Constitutional Law, Equity and Trusts and Property Law 2. the practicle subjects are Trust and office accounting and Prof Responsibility. Sometimes they require Administrative law(academic) and also property law(practicle). When you have done all the courses you have to send form 16 again with proof of passing the courses they said you should do. Then if they are satisfied you can apply to be admitted as a lawyer NSW-form 11. Don't forget that if they give you a lot of courses to do you can always apply for them to reconsider and put up more proof that you should be exempted from more courses.. The subjects above are the courses you have to do and you will not be exempted from them. When you apply for admission you have to get a letter from the Law Society saying you are admitted etc, etc. You have to fly to NSW to be admitted. Thereafter you go to the LPAB offices and apply for your letter. With that letter you can start the visa process. After all that you will also have to do the IELTS test which can be worth 20 points or 10 points towards your visa. hope this helps. Let me know if there is anything else I can help with. Good luck

[KyleV]

Hi All,

It depends on the University that you have studied at in RSA and whether or not the subjects that you have done are seen as equivalent to the Australian courses. I was lucky enough to avoid administrative law and all I have to do is Australian Constitutional law, Property law and Equity (with trusts forming a part thereof), then obviously, the PLT courses.

Do you have an email address for someone at the college of law for the PLT's? That would be great if I could get those out the way while I am busy with my conversion!

The subjects you have to do (other than the compulsory ones) depends on the University you have attended in RSA, as stated above, because the courses presented by the different University's vary. Some people get exempted from Administrative law, while others do not.

KyleV.

[Hempies]

Wow. Thanks for the replies. This is definitely a step in the right direction!

[Izzy]

Hi you need to do form 17 (practicle courses)and submit it to the LPAB. They will tell you what subjects to do and where you can study them and I think you need a letter from them to enrol for the courses.I think I deleted all the links from my computer when I was finished. I will have to check my pile of documents to see what they wanted when we signed up.

Good luck.

[johanVS]

Hi Kyle. I am a law student, studying part time and working (articles) full time. I have roughly 2 years left; thereafter I will be going through the same process as you are at the moment. Please update on a regular basis as this has become really confusing. R 100 000 is extremely high! Completing a full LLB Degree through unisa, as I am, does not even come close to R100k. That being said, still worth it though. Guess at the end of the day no matter what it costs, a better future still is priceless. My son is 6 months old, I am actually Afrikaans, but every now and then I speak in English to him, just to prepare him for one day

Good luck with the rest of the process.

[KyleV]

Hi Johan,

It is not cheap at all, that is for sure! But, you cannot put a price on your future and the future of your family, so even though it is expensive, it will be worth it! I am starting my conversion in February, I have actually just sent off my acceptance of the offer of admission for the University I am doing my conversion course through. Just one word of caution though, they will asses each degree from each University separately, however, most people who have completed a South African LLB these days will have to do the same subjects. Australian Constitutional law, Equity (an English law concept) and Real Property law are all compulsory and have to be completed (luckily these are the only courses that I need to complete).

Another thing that must be considered is that you will also have to complete your PLT's in Australia before you can be admitted. The R 100 000, does not take into account the cost of the assessment of your LLB with the LPAB (or relevant assessing authority depending on the State you decide to go through) which is roughly R 2 000 and the cost of the assessment of the PLT's and the completion of your PLT's. It won't add too much on top of the R 100 000 (I would assume an extra R 20 000 on top).

As stated in your thread that you started, keep your eye on the SOL as it changes every year.

I will keep you posted on my progress through the conversion and PLT's.

Good luck with everything and don't be scared to ask questions, the only 'dumb' question is one that you don't ask!

Kyle.

[PleasantlySurprised]

Hi

Has anyone got any information for admitted attorneys with 5+ years PQE?

[Izzy]

Hi

You do both your academic subjects ( Constitutional, Equity and Trusts, Property law 2) and your practical courses(Trust and office accounting,and Professional Responsibility) whilst in South Africa. When you have done the courses you do form 16 again and when you get the final letter from LPAB you do form 11 and apply to be admitted as a lawyer. You fly to Oz to appear in the court.

Once you are admitted you can apply for the letter from LPAB to say you have a positive skills assessment .

Hope that helps.

[LisaMcD]

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Edited August 3, 2015 by LisaMcD

[LisaMcD]

I don't know if this post is too late, but for PLT's you would need to be in AUS as they require a 4 week placement with a law firm, and if you are completing your PLT whilst working then you need an additional week off work to attend a 1 week intensive for classes. Most PLT schools require you to arrange your own placement within a law firm. I have been living for 2 and a half years now, and the competition is fierce. I wish someone warned me before I arrived. Generally, you are only able to commence PLT once you have completed all the core subjects for LLB (aka priestley 11). At the moment admitted solicitors are being placed in law clerk and paralegal positions. I believe Brisbane is the worst at the moment.

http://www.lawyersweekly.com.au/news/15576-Reality-check-for-law-graduates

http://www.afr.com/news/policy/industrial-relations/oversupply-leaves-law-students-without--jobs-20140220-jgec6

http://www.lawyersweekly.com.au/news/14603-it-is-the-worst-time-in-living-history-to-be-a-law

[elleneo]

Yip, I have been doing paralegal contracting work and I'm already admitted as an Australian lawyer. Job market is tough for lawyers at the moment...

[Steffi]

On 5/13/2014 at 5:33 AM, Izzy said:

Hi

You do both your academic subjects ( Constitutional, Equity and Trusts, Property law 2) and your practical courses(Trust and office accounting,and Professional Responsibility) whilst in South Africa. When you have done the courses you do form 16 again and when you get the final letter from LPAB you do form 11 and apply to be admitted as a lawyer. You fly to Oz to appear in the court.

Once you are admitted you can apply for the letter from LPAB to say you have a positive skills assessment .

Hope that helps.

 

Hi, what is the situation if you have completed Practical Legal Training and Practice Management Training in South Africa?

 

Can you be exempt from having to do Practical Legal Training in Australia if you have done it in South Africa, and can show that you have clinical law practice knowledge and experience in South Africa, plus training in Legal Bookkeeping? 

 

Can you only do the "oorbruggingskursus" // briding course via distance learning while still in South Africa, and then be admitted as an Attorney in Western Australia?

 

Can you be admitted as an Attorney in South Africa as well as Western Australia? Should you then wish to move to Australia after being admitted as an Australian Attorney can you then just place your name on the non-practising attorneys roll of RSA? Or can you practice in both Jurisdictions? Open a practice here and there?

Edited March 16, 2018 by Steffi

[CornelvanGreunen]

Hi, any solicitors in Sydney / Brisbane area?

 

We are travelling to Aus next week 23 Aug - 1 Sept and would love to meet with some South Africans who made the move and who practices in law.  We just want to get an idea of what the transition was like, what other's perception was of your past experience etc.  My husband and I are both lawyers and he has had his own law firm for the past 16 years

 

Thank you.

[Geobon]

Good day everyone,

 

My name is Boni an admitted Attorney here in South Africa with 5 years experience in Personal Injury Law. I have been considering to move to Australia since 2019 and I have done some research on how to go about the whole process and it's costs implications. I would like to find from those who have gone through the process about job prospects in Australia for solicitors. I am about to have my degree assessed and start with conversion process, so I would like to ask also whether it is advisable to do so at this stage since many visa have been stopped for people outside Australia due to Covid.Kindly shed some light.Your response will highly be appreciated.

 

Kim's regards

Boni