Better For Children: South Africa Or Australia?

[AGenerationLost]

Hi.

I was born in South Africa but came to Australia almost six years ago. Currently I am doing an HSC Society and Culture Personal Interest Project on whether or not immigration to Australia is better for an Afrikaner child than living in post-apartheid South Africa.

As such a child, who immigrated to Australia, I often wonder where if perhaps I would have been better off remaining in South Africa.

I would love to know what you think, if you have any particular insights and whether you think Australia or South Africa is a better place to bring up Afrikaner children.

Other than commenting on this topic, you could complete one of my questionnaires (at www.agenerationlost.org) which will be used as more formal research.

Every opinion counts and will help make my project a huge success.

Thank you very much, in advance

Note: HSC is the Higher School Certificate, equivalent to Matric in South Africa.

[Enrica]

I dont think that children are given the choice to emigrate. parents make the decisions to suit their families and children go along for the ride.

In most instances parents migrate because of safety for their children, and better education and opportunities down the line. I dont beleive that children would be better off in South Africa in the current climate.

[Garrick]

I dont think that children are given the choice to emigrate. parents make the decisions to suit their families and children go along for the ride.

In most instances parents migrate because of safety for their children, and better education and opportunities down the line. I dont beleive that children would be better off in South Africa in the current climate.

Enrica is right. Amy was barely 18 months when we moved to Australia. We had a very comfortable life in South Africa and we were never victims of violent crime and because of my skill level in the work I do, I was never discriminated against because well, there weren't many black African people at my level in the country. So I sat happy and Michelle had her business. So we gave that all up to come here.

We went to Moomba this weekend, and walked along the river front and along the lanes of Allbert Park... and thought that this was the life. Looking back, we didn't actually 'check out' everyone around us to make sure it was safe... we just sat on our blanket on the grass and had our picnic. Amy has no idea of what life would have been like for her in SA. She would have faced discrimination for getting into university. She would have faced discrimination trying to find work - how ironic that it is the grandchildren of the PAG that are suffering and not the people responsible...

Anyway. There is no doubt in my mind that Amy and her future sibbling will have a magnitudes better life here than in South Africa. Zero doubt. The only sad part for her for now is not seeing my wife's parents, but long-term visitor's visa for when they are retired will help alleviate that.

-G

[Sibella]

We also went to Moomba festival, fab wasn't it! Even just experiences like these make it worth it, never in a million years would there be something like that in South Africa. Our children will take it for granted, but we will never forget...

[HansaPlease]

We're heading to SA for a visit with our 3 year old and 1 year old in July. I can't think of anywhere we're can take them to a park? The old park that I used to go to when I was a kid isn't safe anymore, and all the equipment is broken/stolen.

My son won't be able to ride his bike on the footpaths because there aren't any, and there are too many cars coming in and out of my parents' townhouse complex for him to ride there.

Without even having to go into the crime/education/employment issues that would be facing the kids if we lived there, I'd have to say our kids are definitely better off here in Aus...

[Cramer]

Without opening a can of worms here, I am wondering why this is only aimed at the Afrikaner Child and not the South African Child. There are many of us here who are from dual English-Afrikaans Background. My Grandfather was a nephew of Louis Botha and my wife is a direct descendant of Andries Pretorius the Vootrekker with her grandfather, also Andries Pretorius, having married an English woman. However despite our ancestry we both grew up in english speaking homes and speak Afrikaans fluently, however would not consider our kids as Afrikaner or English (In the strict tense of the term) just as South African.

While I see where www.agenerationlost.org is going with that it is itself discriminatory as it excludes a large portion of children living in Australia.

Please note this is NOT an attack just my opinion.

[Enrica]

Sorry @ alost generation .. I forgot to add good luck with your research project

[Kas]

It's a very interesting topic you have brought up and one I have given a lot of thought to, but not specifically pertaining to afrikaans children, just all children who are products of migration. There is no argument our children will have safety and freedom in Australia, much more than in South Africa. They will grow up without the stress and threat that crime creates in our lives back in RSA. They will have equal opportunities at education and jobs. I believe that is why most of us with children have moved here. However everything comes at a price. Our children will lose out on relationships with grandparents, aunts and uncles and cousins. Whilst we do have skype, it is not the same, and the unconditional love that comes from one's grandparents and family had a huge influence on me as I grew up, and so I find it incredibly sad that my children will not have this. Also, they lose out on their heritage. Yes we'll introduce them to braais and biltong, but being an African, feeling Africa running through your blood, can only come from living there. I know in many ways we've done our children a huge service by coming to live in Australia, we're protetcting them, providing them with safety and freedom - a right every human being should have. We are however taking things away from them too, and whilst you can't measure anything against your child's safety, they will lose out on things by not growing up in the country of their birth.

[Riekie]

To me, this one incident summarises it: My little girl running into my room with her rubish bin over her head and holding an umbrella over her, asking where to hide, while bullets are flying through our backyard. This was her life in South Africa.

Yet, in some bizzare way, for her, it was "normal" and not the end of the world - not even a traumatic experience! Telling this story to her friends in Australia, no one believes her! For Aussie kids, their "normal" is so far removed from the "real world" out there, it is sometimes scary! They have such secure and comfortable lives, they don't know and don't care about the rest.

In my daughter's high school - about 3 years ago - an expelled kid walked into their classroom and threatened the teacher with a knife. Immediate hysterics! While everyone were under their desks crying and freaking out, my daughter simply carried on writing (bizzarre!) Nothing happened, the kid were apprehended by another teacher, no one was stabbed or hurt, none of the kids were threatened and within a few minutes it was all over, but still, it affected the kids in such a traumatic way that the school had to bring in a councilor to help them work through the experience. My daughter thought it was a joke!

I still don't know what ot make of this and even if it was in some way beneficial for my daughter to have experienced all these things to see life in perspective, make her more resilient or give her compassion. I don't know. I do know that the life she has now, is the better life.

[JuanitaS]

I agree a 100% with Kas, we do give our children a better future but at a very high price of not seeing their grandparents. My son is now 2 and use to see my parents every day, my heart breaks when I think of what they are missing out on and the fact that my son cannot experience their love anymore. It is also sad that he will probable prefer to speak English (as he hears it at school and I also speak to him in English on advise of the speech therapist). His African heritage is also something that he will miss out on, but I do believe his life here will be allot better and safer.

[AGenerationLost]

Sorry @ alost generation .. I forgot to add good luck with your research project

Thank you very much Enrica. I really appreciate that!

Also thank you for filling in the survey, it is really incredibly helpful to get to know other people's opinions!

Thank you also to Louise for her survey.

[AGenerationLost]

Thank you very much Enrica. I really appreciate that!

Also thank you for filling in the survey, it is really incredibly helpful to get to know other people's opinions!

Thank you also to Louise for her survey.

And thank you very much to every one who has expressed their opinions here.

[HansaPlease]

Whoops, my mistake, I overlooked the Afrikaner bit. Although I'm a halfbreed, I'm more English than Afrikaans and my kids are both Australian born.

[Oosie]

Juanita I'm sorry but I do not agree with your speech therapist, we came to Aus when our granddaughter was 8 months and we only spoke Afrikaans to her in the home and outside, when we were with English people we spoke English and in the church and she is 4 years now and go to 4 year kinder and she speak Afrikaans to us and her parents and English to her friends and in class without a problem. Her little brother is 5 months now and we will do the same, we don't want them to lose there language (Afirkaans) even if they only want to speak English in later years we will still just speak Afrikaans to them, they get a lot of English practise outside of the home and on TV.

To come back to the question, we believe Australia is a far better country to live in for our children than South Africa, they do miss out a lot with the family but if you think of their future Aus is better.

All the best.

Linda

[Cramer]

... but being an African, feeling Africa running through your blood, can only come from living there. ....

I could not agree more, but if they come here when they are young are they really missing anything they don't know. Personally we are not bringing up our kids as Saffers living in Australia, they know who they are and where they come from. But they will grow up with Aussie kids and adopt Aussie culture and that is okay with us. After all we came here to give them a better life and the Aussie culture is part of that.

Kind of makes you think whether they can be considered a lost generation, the loss is not theirs it is South Africa's

[Kas]

I could not agree more, but if they come here when they are young are they really missing anything they don't know. Personally we are not bringing up our kids as Saffers living in Australia, they know who they are and where they come from. But they will grow up with Aussie kids and adopt Aussie culture and that is okay with us. After all we came here to give them a better life and the Aussie culture is part of that.

Kind of makes you think whether they can be considered a lost generation, the loss is not theirs it is South Africa's

Very good points Cramer.

[Springjock]

For me, it's not even up for debate whether Australia is better. How can anyone argue that the world's most dangerous country can be better than Australia for kids? All of the other arguments about them seeing family or growing with other kids of their culture is valid, but how can the conclusion EVER be that SA is better than Australia, when the most aspect of human life - safety and security - is so heavily threatened by life in SA?

It's a bit like asking if there is ever a good reason to rape someone. There is simply no good reason to risk human life if this can be avoided.

It boggles my mind........

[AllisonW]

Maybe its because we are english south africans and dont really associate ourselves with a strong culture, but this is a non issue for us. Recently my son had to talk about his culture at school and we had nothing to say! We braai, celebrate xmas, put out easter eggs, hang out with family and friends... Nothing that most of the western world does and probably most ozzies! We will miss family but have always been quite an insular family, with focus on mom, dad and kids. We holiday on our own, hang out together and have a jol! So sure i will still make malva pudding and koeksisters but Randburg wasnt exactly the sahara so i suspect suburbian life in SA will be a lot like Oz... Just safer and more effective.

Our kids wont miss SA. My baby is 9 mths old. She is going to be a wonderful authentic Australian Sheila! And i couldnt be happier! I want my kids to be global citizens.

[Rover]

It's a bit like asking if there is ever a good reason to rape someone. There is simply no good reason to risk human life if this can be avoided.

The scary thing is that when I read this, I thought of so-called 'corrective rape', often seen in the less educated communities. It scares the crap out of me to think that you may potentially get an answer, perceived as positive by some, to an act of such disrespect and barbarism.

[AGenerationLost]

Hi

Thank you so much to every one who has shared their opinions. Your varying insights are really good and will allow me to further delve into this problem.

I really also appreciate the comments made about the feelings of separation and loss from family and friends. This is one of my major focus areas.

Personally, I believe my quality (and quantity) of life here in Australia is so much higher than anything I could have experienced in South Africa, however I miss the country.

Last night my family watched "platteland" an Afrikaans movie - and it made me realise how much of that culture we have lost... but it also highlighted that we also lost the crime... it's almost like a trade-off and you need to decide which side is better.

Here I have an education and a chance to go to university based solely on my own merit, but I also have a duty... a duty to give something more of myself as I have been given so much more.

Thank you very much for all your help

AGenerationLost

[Emille]

a no bummer really

of course australia is better for 'post apartheid' children

the only, and i repeat, the only downside of emigrating to south africa is - that the children grow up without their family/grandparents

there is no future for children in south africa - if they survive that long

[Bob]

I'm an outsider.

I read about bullets, about discrimination to Afrikaner kids getting into Uni or getting jobs, safety issues.

What about loss of their identity??

As an Aussie, I've got to know a number of South Africans in my local town because I'm one of the few people here that deliberately throw my doors open to them, try to get to know them and help them fit in.

Afrikaners in particular, I notice, are doing it tough to fit in.

One bloke just last week told me of his old High School in the Northern Cape region was a white school.

There are only 5 white kids now in the whole school and they are all in Year 12 . . . so, next year it will be a 100% black school.

What is significant was that all the old school photos of white kids going back 30 or 40 years in the past have been taken down.

The only school photos are recent . . . . the last 5 years . . . .and they are all of black kids.

So . . . . all record of Afrikaner history in that particular school has been eradicated and expunged, either deliberately or not.

The impression I got was that this was a widespread response nowadays across South Africa . . . . . to expunge any Afrikaner history.

Surely, that has something to do with the self-esteem and feeling of connection to a place that Afrikaner kids wouldn't experience in Australia.

In Australia, they'd be feeling like just another kid on the block, or just another achiever in the school where their mugshot would be shown for another generation of school kids to look at and try to emulate.

. . . . but at least they'd have an identity . . . . as an Australian . . . . . if they want that!

[sbhennops]

The only thing that worries me is the loss of the Afrikaans language. Many kids from mainly Afrikaans parents, that arrive here as youngsters seem to be loosing there language. I find it odd, as i have Portugese and Italian friends in Oz and there kids are fluent in those languages. I explained something sport related to an Afrikaans girl in Afrikaans so she may understand the concept better and was reprimanded by her parent for choosing to explain it in Afrikaans to help her. I still think in Afrikaans and talk and write in English, so whats the big deal. I have bumped into South Africans in a shopping center and man were they Afrikaans When i greeted them in Afrikaans i got told to speak English at which point I just laughted. I find it sad that in times when the ANC goverment is trying to make Afrikaans an extinct language that we as immigrants sometime go out of our way to not develop Afrikaans proudly. I love hearing Afrikaans kids in a park and seeing the respect they show when dealing with the people around them. Afrikaans is not just a language, its a culture, and if you come from a mixed family of Afrikaans/English then you have two cultures you can embrace with equal pride.

[Garrick]

The only thing that worries me is the loss of the Afrikaans language. Many kids from mainly Afrikaans parents, that arrive here as youngsters seem to be loosing there language. I find it odd, as i have Portugese and Italian friends in Oz and there kids are fluent in those languages.

That is often because there are a greater number of people speaking those languages and they concentrate (live) together more. Also, Afrikaans is a language spoken by a relatively "small" minority in world standards. And during the mining boom here, it was Europeans that moved to Oz; South Africans had their own boom and didn't need to move here. So the land was settled by people speaking those languages. Again, Afrikaans is a relatively new language in Australia spoken by a small minority.

-G

[Caz]

I'm pretty much in the same boat as AllisonW, maybe our children will absorb some Aussie culture?