Afrikaans in Australia ...

[HansaPlease]

This always amazes me: Afrikaans speaking people are always expected to dump their language, culture, etc. for that of their new country, else they are accused of having a "laager" mentality. But, somehow this is NEVER expected from the English, Germans, French, Chinese, Greeks, Jews, Portugese, etc., etc., etc. ......... Why is that?

It is a VERY normal occurance world-wide that people of the same grouping (race, language, nationality) will naturally tend to stick together. Nothing sinister or evil about it - except if you're Afrikaans it seems.

I tend to disagree - I don't think Afrikaans people are expected to dump their language and culture any more or any less than any other nationality moving to a new country. It may seem that way to you because you might feel persecuted (maybe too strong a word) for your use of Afrikaans, but I'm sure it's no different with any other nationality or language.

English is probably given a bit more of a break than most languages because it's more widely understood than most, but then again, you just have to look at the criticism of British tourists/immigrants in Europe who insist on eating British food and drinking British beer to note that they also get plenty of stick for not adapting.

I know it's a sore point - feeling like you have to water down your culture and language - I feel the same and I'm only about a third Afrikaans, but I don't believe Afrikaners are singled out.

[AndreaL]

This always amazes me: Afrikaans speaking people are always expected to dump their language, culture, etc. for that of their new country, else they are accused of having a "laager" mentality. But, somehow this is NEVER expected from the English, Germans, French, Chinese, Greeks, Jews, Portugese, etc., etc., etc. ......... Why is that?

I don't agree. As an immigrant to South Africa in the 80's ( Ermelo) I can't tell you how many times I was told " you're in South Africa now" or " this is not the UK' etc, and it wasn't because we weren't trying to adapt to the customs of our new country.

As a newly arrived 13 year old ( first week at school) I was made to stand up in the classroom and read from an Afrikaans book- the children and the teacher thought my efforts were very funny, I was embarrassed and mortified and vowed to never speak " that' language again and be ridiculed. Still to this day, I will not speak Afrikaans except to children and Africans who can only speak Afrikaans.

In fact our Geography teacher further put out the 'unwelcome mat', by referring to England in various disparaging terms and said that the farms in that country were 'postage stamps'.

We were constantly referred to as 'rooinek', 'soutie' etc and I was even told by one young man that all English girls are 'whore's". My father constantly had to put up with remarks about him ' stealing a South Africans job'. We could not understand how these people could profess to be Christians and indeed all went to church and then do and say the things they did ( I think my disillusionment with religion started then)

Obviously this impacted on my impression of Afrikaans people as a whole. Later we lived in Standerton, where the preferred sport for young Afrikaans men was ' soutie bashing'. One fine weekend I witnessed two locals hold the arms of a visiting British tourist, whilst their friends broke them with a baseball bat! One good thing, all the English boys could run fast The Greek and Portuguese people were treated even more appallingly

Of course, as I grew older I met ' nice' Afrikaans people and I realised that 'they' were not all like that.................... so, I think in my experience, most people who made South Africa their new home, were expected to adhere to the Afrikaans cultural expectations ( not even the South African culture) and were forced to deny or hide their own cultures.

Anyway, aside from the fact that I don't agree with your statement, I think it very important that Afrikaans people do continue to speak Afrikaans and possibly even other languages to their children, and share their culture and values whilst fully committing to the Australian way of life. Of course Australia is an English speaking country, so it makes sense to ensure that your children are fluent in English and receive any extra lessons they may need to do so.

One final point to Afrikaans speaking people- remember that when you are speaking Afrikaans in public, there are many other people who understand Afrikaans too!

[Enrica]

Well said Andrea, I to was born in South Affrica BUT of immigrant Italian Parents, and boy oh boy did the " crunchies" treat the immigrants and anyone that was not Afrikaanse badly, just becuase we did not have the surname of Swanepoel or Vander Merwe .

There was blatant racism from the Afrikaaners, we Italian and the Portguese were called " See Kxxxxxs ", jy is in Suid Afrika en jy moet Afrikaans praat. Dis hoe ons dit doen, of hierdie een is defintief nie a Suid Afrikaaner nie. and I can just go on and on.

I worked for South African Airways and had to do a Afrikaanse Praat toets to get employed, but the Afrikaaners never had to do a English Oral test to see if they could speak English. Coming from a " different culture" in South Africa meaning that we were not Afrikaans, we are always at a disadvantage when it came to certain jobs , namely Government jobs.

So please Vuilbaard, dont come and say that you are amazed that the Afrikaaners are the ones that MUST give up their language or culture. No one has asked anything of the sorts. In this country you have a choice on how you want to protect your language and culture.

I am married to a wonderful Afrikaans Man, and guess what my kids do not speak Afrikaans , and that was their father choice, but then they also dont speak Italian either. Are we any poorer for it? Perhaps , but that was our choice. Thats what life is about making the choice .

At the end of the day , Afrikaanse is a minority community both in South Africa and in Australia, and if you dont protect your culture and language, your government in SA is not going to do it. So each and every one of us has a choice if and how you protect your language, culture adn traditions.

[Riekie]

We speak Afrikaans at home because it is the best way we could express ourselves. It is one thing to speak another language in everyday conversation but I find it difficult to have emotional conversations in another language. If I'm angry I want to be able to express that in the best way I know and when I'm sad, or loving or excited or whatever, I prefer Afrikaans.

My son lives & works in an environment where there are no other South Africans - not a single one, so he never speaks Afrikaans anymore - only when he comes to visit. In the few years he's been in that environment, he can still speak perfect Afrikaans without a English/Aussie accent, but struggles with finding the right words - especially for more technical terms and more complex words we don't use during everyday conversation - it is almost as if his vocabulary has decreased. Sometimes he would not understand a word or term we use when we speak to him in Afrikaans.

My daughter is not exposed to Afrikaans other than at home. She was 11 when we came to Australia and over the years, like my son, she has lost quite a bit of her vocabulary. She speaks with an American accent (not intentionally, that's just the way she pronounce her words - she was way too young to put on "an act" when she started having to speak English 90% of the time - I think it has more to do with the TV programs she watched at the time). She struggles with finding the right words and would often be confused about the context of a conversation when she does not recognise a few key Afrikaans words. She struggles with reading Afrikaans as her brain now thinks in English first. A note or a short letter is not a problem, but a novel is out of the question.

We encourage our kids to speak Afrikaans as it is part of their heritage and also because it is always good to be able to speak another language. When we are out in public or in the presence of English speaking people, we speak English. When we go out on our own we will speak Afrikaans to each other while browsing the shops or having a coffee but we keep our voices down (or try to - we are a very loud nation and it is sometimes difficult, especially when we are having an exciting conversation). I find it disturbing when people speak loudly in another language - especially when it is an abrasive language, so I don't want to annoy people by speaking Afrikaans loudly in public.

Both hubby and I still have a very broad Afrikaans accent and will probably have it until we die. We still have most of our vocabulary but I must admit, it does sometimes get difficult finding the right Afrikaans words and we then replace it with English (or interrupt the sentence, debating about what the correct Afrikaans word is).

All in all we are proudly Afrikaans speaking Aussies but we speak English when in the company of English speaking people. Afrikaans is part of who we are and we will encourage our kids to speak to their kids in Afrikaans and English one day when they have kids, to help them learn the language and retain that part of our heritage. Should they choose not to, that's also OK.

[vuilbaard]

Cheez guys, I'm really taking flack on this one! My comments were not directed at anyone, so chill. I was only relating my own life experiences and did not mean to offend anyone.

Some of this frustration stems from Afrikaners being treated as foreigners in their own country (like being referred to as "rock spiders" - a favourite of some English-speaking people in KZN).

I feel strongly about my language, culture, etc. (like anyone of any culture should) and maybe was expressing myself too strongly - my sincere apologies to all whom I might have offended

But yes, I suppose everyone has to decide for themselves whether to maintain or relinquish their language/culture. It just makes me very sad when Afrikaners give this up.

PS: please note that English is my second language and that I might not always use the correct word or expression - nog net 'n dom boer!

[AndreaL]

Cheez guys, I'm really taking flack on this one! My comments were not directed at anyone, so chill. I was only relating my own life experiences and did not mean to offend anyone.

Some of this frustration stems from Afrikaners being treated as foreigners in their own country (like being referred to as "rock spiders" - a favourite of some English-speaking people in KZN).

I feel strongly about my language, culture, etc. (like anyone of any culture should) and maybe was expressing myself too strongly - my sincere apologies to all whom I might have offended

But yes, I suppose everyone has to decide for themselves whether to maintain or relinquish their language/culture. It just makes me very sad when Afrikaners give this up.

PS: please note that English is my second language and that I might not always use the correct word or expression - nog net 'n dom boer!

No not offended- but I did feel quite strongly that I relate my experiences too And obviously others have had similar experiences. One good thing I have found, is that the Aussies are fairly accepting, it is a very multicultural country.

I would urge all migrants to try and keep their language alive......... Scots Gaelic has all but died out and it is such a beautiful lyrical language, it's my heritage, but I never learned to speak it.

Your English is perfect

[Mara]

I think it is up to the individual. I am of Afrikaans heritage, but was raised and schooled in English in Rhodesia and then married an English speaking South African. For that reason, I ended up speaking 90% English and only 10% Afrikaans, for most of my life. From birth, until the age of 5, we only spoke Afrikaans to our two sons, thereafter it was intensified English to prepare them for school at age 6. Thereafter, we made Thursdays, Afrikaans days. Of course, they both went through their school careers in RSA, so did both languages. To this day, all four of us still speak Afrikaans, not often, but we have certainly not lost it.

We have all found though, that our vocabulary sometimes suffers these days, as we have to think really hard before we speak. I find that the written word does not come as easily anymore, not enough practice.

[interest]

I read these comments with interest. I also feel that it is up to individual groupings to preserve and foster their own cultural heritage. Its a kind of "plough back and put in and feed it, or it may die" kind of thing. IF it is really important to people, they will do something about it. Like start cultural movemenets, send their kids to language and literature lessons, and attend and contribute at events. And celebrate their heritage regularly.

I think it all comes down to if you really DO cherish your background and how important is it to you. It requires only a handful of people to keep a spark alive, and if its a concern, then do something to keep the good things of it alive. I did a brief google, and there are Afrikaans lessons available in Australia, and there is even a tentative language course available at UTS! (pending numbers, unfortunately ;-) )

All the best!

[Eva]

I am as English speaking as you can get, born and bred in Durban and other than learning Afrikaans at school it was not a language I needed to use very often.

The funniest thing is I have been exposed to more Afrikaans since living in Australia than I ever did in Durban.

There is a huge Afrikaans community in Toowoomba, and a good friend of mind jabbers away in a mix of English and Afrikaans (more Afrikaans) every time we talk. I really have to concentrate, cos sometimes I don't recognise a word (or more) she uses!

I think it is really funny that I hear more Afrikaans in Aus than I did in Durban.

And I often hear people in supermarkets talking in Afrikaans too.

What I do find interesting is that some Aussies I was chatting to at a BBQ on Australia Day said that they find it rude when Afrikaaners (not that they used that word) speak Afrikaans in front of them. I guess they wonder what is being said, that maybe they are being spoken about, whatever.

[Toitjie]

What I do find interesting is that some Aussies I was chatting to at a BBQ on Australia Day said that they find it rude when Afrikaaners (not that they used that word) speak Afrikaans in front of them. I guess they wonder what is being said, that maybe they are being spoken about, whatever.

I can completely understand that. I get the same feeling when I am in a meeting that is supposed to take place in English, but my African colleagues start talking in their own language, which I dont understand. I find it very rude, especially if one of them just happen to glance my way, I would feel that they are discussing me.

I don't think its difficult, just be sensitive. If you are in a mixed group, talk the language that everyone understands. if you need to talk to your kid, Im sure no-one would mind if its in Afrikaans

[MG Family]

Some short comments:

1. Welgedaan Vuilbaard met 'n vinnige verskoning.

I find that I can easily call a spade a spade in Afrikaans without offending too many people, but when I try to do the same in English, I easily offend ...

2.

I would like to add the example of Charles to the topic. Charles was born to SA immigrants who spoke only English at home, even though they were fully bilingual. As Charles grew older he investigated the family tree and at the tender age of 35 took up lessons in Afrikaans.

His motivation - to improve communication with his extended family in SA. Makes one think doesn't it ...

3.

"Die Afrikaanse Klub in Australië" is especially active in Queensland, but has smaller formal and informal branches throughout Australia. Members are keen to continue communicating in Afrikaans and to keep the culture going with various activities - Afrikaans artists are often invited to have concerts in the main cities. Visit http://www.afrikaans.org.au/index.ews or the facebook page for more info.

Groete

MG

[IamInACT]

I am as English speaking as you can get, born and bred in Durban and other than learning Afrikaans at school it was not a language I needed to use very often.

The funniest thing is I have been exposed to more Afrikaans since living in Australia than I ever did in Durban.

There is a huge Afrikaans community in Toowoomba, and a good friend of mind jabbers away in a mix of English and Afrikaans (more Afrikaans) every time we talk. I really have to concentrate, cos sometimes I don't recognise a word (or more) she uses!

I think it is really funny that I hear more Afrikaans in Aus than I did in Durban.

And I often hear people in supermarkets talking in Afrikaans too.

What I do find interesting is that some Aussies I was chatting to at a BBQ on Australia Day said that they find it rude when Afrikaaners (not that they used that word) speak Afrikaans in front of them. I guess they wonder what is being said, that maybe they are being spoken about, whatever.

I can relate to this also most exactly the same .... I have listen to and spoken more Afrikaans in Australia then in SA, in fact I quite enjoy it ...

My appeal to Afrikaans speakers, when in the company on english only Aussies at a social, please don't speak Afrikaans, they Aussies do find it rude and it is.

Thanks for all the open opinion!

T

[EricaC]

I think it's also a case of when you're with your own people, people who share your traditions, your memories

and mostly your language - you never feel that you are far from home. Although I have met a SA family here

with two little boys 2 and 4 and the parents only speak Afrikaans to the boys?????? Cannot get my head around

this - as Eva pointed out, she found it difficult to keep up with her mate jabbering away in mostly Afrikaans and English

and Eve IS English.......these poor kids once they start school - as they do not understand or speak English - Some Kiwi's and Aussies have a heavy

twang as to the way they speak - it will be SO much harder for these little boys to even begin to understand......and hell, mingle!!

You have adopted a English speaking Country to live in and to bring up your children in - so yeah......when it comes to little kiddies - English is vital - grown up's

not such a problem. I too come from a very Afrikaans background - but grew up English - would I speak Afrikaans to a Afrikaans speaking person in front of my Kiwi mates - absolutely not!!! Just like they

would never dream of speaking Maori in our company. For me, it is just good etiquette - and common sense really, if you wish to fit into your

new Country quicker. I will chat to my Afrikaans friends over the phone or when we are alone together.........but that is about it.

[NicciG]

Hi All

We haven't been in Aus for all that long. In the beginning, we tried to speak English at home for our kids' benefit (daughter, 6 and a 13-month old son), but good heavens, once you get excited (whether it be for the right or the wrong reasons), it's just so much easier to switch to Afrikaans!! Mens kan iemand darem maar lekker uittrap in Afrikaans, soos jy dit nie in Engels kan doen nie!!!

My daughter's School Principal was adamant that we should not speak English to her at home, because in the long run, it is advantageous for their brain development to know more than one language.

When we visit with Afrikaans friends, we speak Afrikaans; when we visit with English South African friends, we speak whatever is easiest at that moment (it might be easier to switch to Afrikaans after a couple of glasses of wine ).

Our Aussie friends, bless them, have now realised that, if I speak to my daughter in Afrikaans, it is usually a tongue-lashing that might be embarrassing to her if I should have given it to her in English - this only happens when my daughter all of a sudden doesn't understand me when I speak to her in English . This usually snaps her out of her defiant behaviour very quickly.

I can understand that Aussies will find it rude if my husband and I all of a sudden started speaking Afrikaans to each other - that will be extremely rude of us! But I bend the rules a bit when it comes to my kids - and I'm sure any mom will understand.

Have a good one!

Nicci

Edited February 8, 2011 by NicciG

[Riekie]

but good heavens, once you get excited (whether it be for the right or the wrong reasons), it's just so much easier to switch to Afrikaans!!

Exactly!

Even at work, when I foget where I am I'll talk to myself in Afrikaans when I'm frustrated with something. Or I'll have a lightbulb moment about something only to spill it all in Afrikaans! It's our first instinct to think in our home language and sometimes it slips through. In some conversations I'll use an Afrikaans word in the middle of a sentence and only when I see all the puzzled looks do I realise what I've done, then it's backtracking in my mind to find the word and explain. Many funny moments!

I'm all for keeping your language and pass it on to your kids and their kids, but I also agree that all immigrants need to learn to read, write and speak proper English as we chose to move to an English speaking Country. It is just selfish to think otherwise. In the Netherlands you can not even get citizenship if you're not fluent in Dutch (read, write, speak - and not only on a basic level). Dutch classes are compulsory for everyone who want to immgrate from another country. Do in Rome what the Romans do.

[sbhennops]

Having moved from the â€last outpost†and glad to have the Queen as my Head of State, English is what I know best. Most of the Saffers I know in Canberra/Australia are Afrikaans speaking South Africans and I donâ€t think that I have had to converse more in twee tale than ever before.

I noticed the concerns of some people and would like to understand further and find out how it really affects you as an Afrikaner (rather than South African) in Australia. Afrikaans is a large part of you heritage and culture and the BIGGEST one is that the kids especially the ones aged 2 to 5 are losing the ability to effectively learn Afrikaans due to school and friends. Even the older kids grade 12 or so, I noticed that some boys sounds more Aussie after 8 months then Afrikaans!

One family was considering going back to Perth because there was a bigger Afrikaans community and the possibility depending on what school, for their children to learn Afrikaans as a second language. There has even been conflict in the families where the husband has said â€well we are now in Aus the kids need strong English†and will speak to the kids in English over Afrikaans but then the mother will insist on speaking Afrikaans to the children as it part of who they are...

Is Australia diluting your Afrikaans? Is it causing you to lose your culture/identity? How has being in Australia affected you as an Afrikaner? Or if you are leaving SA to come to Aus, hwo do you plan to deal with these challanges?

*** Not sure how many people will read this thread but it is purely an understanding session and if it degenerates into anything else, I will have it removed.***

Hi.

Well for me its difficult because i don't really know a lot of Saffa people in Oz. They find me different i suppose because i don't fit what many would think

an Afrikaner adult should be. I speak mostly to my friends at home on skype and flatly refuse to give up my culture because i made a choice to move countries.

I am very proud of my heritage as it was honed in blood and sweat and a lot of tears through the decades and i will never be callous enough to throw that away.

Even my Aussie hubby is studying the boer history and understand most of what i say in Afrikaans if i talk slowly. He says he rolls his rrrrrs but has a crack at Afrikaans every opportunity he gets. I would never enstrange a child of mine from his/her heritage, they won't thank you later as they will feel you have taken a part of who they are away from them without asking them. Never make choices for others even your children you would be disgusted with if others made those choices for you without consulting you first. Just my 2c

Australia has room for everyone even Afrikaners Proudly Afrikaner !!!!!

Steph

Edited February 11, 2011 by sbhennops

[AReyeP]

I'm married into an Afrikaner family and let me assure all Afrikaners - you don't need to change a thing to fit into Aus. My brother had never been to South Africa and came to visit me in Joburg from Aus recently, and he was blown away by the hospitality amd warmth of the family here. Now he wants to bring his whole family over here on holiday. So don't be too self conscious as you have nothing to be self conscious about and much to be proud of.

And never lose your language! Use it at home along with English if this suits. It's a part of who you are after all. The Greeks and Italians and Asians etc etc etc all make sure their kids speak their language, and no one minds, so why should you be an exception? Never be worried about your accent either! It's something to be proud of. Unlike so many immigrants to Aus, you guys probably have a better grip on English than many Aussies, so if you know the local language that well, you are fully entitled to speak your own language when it suits you.

And OK, there may be the odd jokes, but that's friendly SA vs AUS stuff like you'd find in the cricket or rugby. I cop it over here in SA on occasion but enjoy it as I know it's all in good fun. I'd be surprised if someone had a nasty dig at you about either, but if they did, they'd be a classic example of the "Aussie Ocker", famous for giving Aus a bad name in various places around the world. Rest assured they're a peanut brained minority.

[Marletia]

Does anyone know of any Afrikaans speaking educators in Melbourne. 

I speak fluint Afrikaans at home. My husband is greek though. However considering I don't have family here, I'd like to have my son in. A day care where Afrikaans is spoken. Does anyone know of any schools or teachers who speak it. There's one in Richmond but for kids over 4 years inky. Mine is 1 year old