Afrikaans in Australia ...

[IamInACT]

Having moved from the “last outpost†and glad to have the Queen as my Head of State, English is what I know best. Most of the Saffers I know in Canberra/Australia are Afrikaans speaking South Africans and I don’t think that I have had to converse more in twee tale than ever before.

I noticed the concerns of some people and would like to understand further and find out how it really affects you as an Afrikaner (rather than South African) in Australia. Afrikaans is a large part of you heritage and culture and the BIGGEST one is that the kids especially the ones aged 2 to 5 are losing the ability to effectively learn Afrikaans due to school and friends. Even the older kids grade 12 or so, I noticed that some boys sounds more Aussie after 8 months then Afrikaans!

One family was considering going back to Perth because there was a bigger Afrikaans community and the possibility depending on what school, for their children to learn Afrikaans as a second language. There has even been conflict in the families where the husband has said “well we are now in Aus the kids need strong English†and will speak to the kids in English over Afrikaans but then the mother will insist on speaking Afrikaans to the children as it part of who they are...

Is Australia diluting your Afrikaans? Is it causing you to lose your culture/identity? How has being in Australia affected you as an Afrikaner? Or if you are leaving SA to come to Aus, hwo do you plan to deal with these challanges?

*** Not sure how many people will read this thread but it is purely an understanding session and if it degenerates into anything else, I will have it removed.***

Edited November 13, 2010 by IamInACT

[Sibella]

This is a sore point for me... I really miss speaking Afrikaans!! I had one Afrikaans friend but she moved back to South Africa, my other South African friends are all English speaking. I've recently discovered another one (well she discovered me when I was yelling at my daughter in Afrikaans) and we've exchanged telephone numbers and I can't wait to meet her to chat in Afrikaans again.

I speak Afrikaans at home with my husband and children but especially my little one who was only 8 months when we got here only speaks English.

So yes its very sad but my children will probably not be able to speak Afrikaans fluently. My oldest speaks Afrikaans but can't really read it.

And yes it has made us lose our culture and identity which is one of the biggest sacrifices made when moving overseas... I'm hoping that if we move to Oz I will make some Afrikaans friends!!

[IamInACT]

I'm hoping that if we move to Oz I will make some Afrikaans friends!!

That won't be a problem, visit "Afrikaans in Canberra" http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/gr...gid=33384754818. I also know people who are not on facebook and/or the forum... so yeah you will be good.

Edited November 13, 2010 by IamInACT

[cristel]

Hi there !

I can confirm what Sibella said. You miss speaking Afrikaans, and are very happy to find other Afrikaans friends. My son came over with me in 2008 when he was 7. Started schooling in English in RSA already. I speak Afrikaans to him, but since I married and Australian, we mix up the English and afrikaans so that he has a 50% chance to know whats goin on. My son still speaks Afrikaans, but have no clue what certain big words mean, like vergelyk en biblioteek en so aan. Sometimes he wants to gossip with me in afrikaans, but halfway through (without him even realising) he changes over to English. Its hard for him to have a whole conversation in afrikaans, its just too difficult. He cant read afrikaans, I should have left all the afrikaans kids books in South Africa.

Our culture, well, ofcourse we will lose that. We still love koeksisters and boerewors, and will grab it any chance we get. Boerewors is the easiest to come by. He does not get what Republiekdag is, he doesnt know our anthem or any of the FAK songs we used to sing at school. But then, no kid younger than 20 does, even living in RSA ?

We are Aussies now, even without the passport, and was it not for the accent, no one would know otherwise !

[Deon-Louise and kids]

Did you go to Kloof High or move there later. I went to Hillcrest High and our biggest sporting event was Hillcrest Vs Kloof Rugby match!!

On the topic I have also found most of the South Africans in Canberra are Afrikaans. Hubby is of Afrikaans decsent but our home language is english. Sometimes try to fool the kids by talking Afrikaans but our oldest started learning it when we were in SA.

[Rison]

No problem here in Brisbane. We have many Afrikaans speaking friends and also in our church community. Afrikaans is part of our culture / Heritage and in my observation still very important to many Afrikaners living in Australia.

Our kids aged 13, 16 and 19 all speak and read Afrikaans and English fluently. We only speak Afrikaans in our house. If anyting, the move to Australia has made us more aware of our culture and the importance thereof. Afrikaans is Us, so to pretend otherwise would be a form of self-denial.

To answer your question. No, our use of Afrikaans in Australia is not diluting, although it takes a bigger effort to maintain in this new environment. Our kids are very positive (and protective) towards their Afrikaans language and culture.

Riaan

[Fly2oz2]

I agree, being in Australia made me more sure of who and what I am. I thought I will integrate with Ausie culture ASAP. Soon After we landed, I URGENTLY searched for an Afrikaans church, and made some wonderfull friends. Ons will never change the fact that you are from Africa, or forget your African(Afrikaans) heritage. There are so many of us here now, and the Ausies don't expect you to change. I think it is important to teach children to speak, read, write Afrikaans, but it everybody's own choice. I still hate the fact that families are being broken apart, and when kids can't even speak to ouma and oupa any more.......ja swaer....... !! Another good thing to see, is how the South Africans stick together here. En hulle kan kuier jong !!! I think South Africans have a positive influence here in Aus, especially amongst the youth. Not saying all Ausie kids are bad, and all SA kids are angels. But generally speaking SA kids have a higher moral standard. It is just important that before you come over to make sure this is what you really want, and be prepared for the emotional roller coaster.

[Alida]

Very interesting topic. We are Afrikaans and still in RSA, but our little ones (5 and 3 !) are very curious about speaking English, as this is the language hubby and I use when we want to tell one another something that the children don't need to know ! Now especially the oldest is starting to recognize and learn English words and manages better to learn English than we thought possible !

The thing of children learning English so well that they struggle to talk to grandparents still in RSA is something I never thought about, but phew, that can be a real concern ! I can just think of hubby's 'Weskus Oupa en Ouma' - that would really bother them not to be able to talk to the children anymore, since they are not strong English speakers. Wow.

My brother already in Oz's boy, who attends an Aussie school, already struggles to talk Afrikaans at home, since he has daily input in English only.

So I guess that might be one of the big things for all of us having little children.

[Toitjie]

Very good and relevant question. Language is something I have forever taken for granted, and only now that I want to move to a primarily English country, does the idea of losing my language and culture, bother me.

We will definitely continue speaking Afrikaans in Canberra, in our house, to our kids. they have both Afrikaans and English books and DVD's. I believe if you keep it alive, it will stay alive.

Sibella - you already have at least one Afrikaans friend!

[Orion25]

Even though we are still in RSA this had been a difficult thing for us to decide, as we live in a VERY multilingual community and both my hubby and I speak fluent afrikaans coming from bilingual homes.

Our eldest 2 kids 12,& 9 both speak afrikaans and we cannot gossip in front of them anymore as they know exactly what's going on. Our youngest is 3 and goes to a bilingual school and speaks certain afrikaans words but to him he has not realised there are 2 different languages yet.

My eldest kids have afrikaans friends here and an afrikaans Oupa and my skoon famile is BAIE afrikaans, so they have asked us to please help them with schooling in Afrikaans when we get to OZ, I will be looking for a correspondence course or something in that line for them as they and we do not want them to lose this part of who we are.

So I am happy to hear that when we eventually land in Canberra we will be able to meet people who will understand where we are coming from.

[21yearsoutofrsa]

Written on my iphone, please excuse the spelling. I will correct when I have a decent screen

I remember on a visit I made to Perth hearing an Afrikaans family. When the couple spoke to each other they spoke Afrikaans, but when they spoke to their children, they spoke on English. At the time I thought that one more generation and the language would be gone. I can understand why they were doing it but at the time felt spittle pang, that from an ennglesman, who on more than one occasion felt that he had been discriminated against for been English and who went to a very very liberal school.

I'll be honest, when I emigrated one of the things I wanted to happen was lose my South African accent. It has never gone, but Because I was English and because I have been away so long people struggle to work out my accent. It's now a mixture of English, South African, New Zealand, Scottish (my wife is Scottish) and Australian. My wife says it becomes more South African after I've been speaking to my brother on the phone for a while and I notice that more "ja's" slip in when I visit my recently arrived cousin.

So even with effort my RSA accent is still part of me, but there are other parts of "me".

I now respect everyone's desire to retain their culture and let's face it language is the backbone of culture, much much much more than throwing boerewors on a braai. Next most important is history. I know nobody will ever be taking English and English history away from me (even though we didn't learn much of it at school in RSA) from me. And I shouldn't expect any less from anybody else.

I do draw the line where a culture goes against the laws and values of the country I'm living in though. But that is not applicable with Afrikaans in Oz. People need to be aware that one of the issues with only speaking Afrikaans is that there may be a view that those folk are not integrating into Australia. I don't believe it is an issue in Oz, but suspect it may be becoming an issue in parts of NZ (Auckland north shore). when an Australian feels uncomfortable walking through a suburb because everybody is only speaking Afrikaans I would have concerns

Edited November 14, 2010 by 14 years out of rsa

[andrea_vk]

If I can tell you my experience. Sorry I am not Afrikaans, but my home language is Spanish. Lived in South Africa for many years, married a South African. When my son was born I was told if I wanted my son to speak Spanish I should never speak in English to him. DO not mix languages. My husband does not speak Spanish but he encouraged me to speak only Spanish, because being bilingual is the best thing for every child, It has been proven that the brain develops in different ways being bilingual.

So I Spoke to him in Spanish even in front of my husband, I will switch and if I needed to translate for whoever was present I did, but maybe the only word that came out in English was "OK".

My son understood everything but never spoke in Spanish. I must say we traveled to see my family a couple of times. When he was 2 years and 8 months we were gone for 6 weeks. Firs two weeks overseas he spoke English, then for two weeks he mixed the languages. the last two weeks he only spoke Spanish. He came back to South Africa speaking Spanish only, at school, to his father. From then on, once he remembered his English, he only spoke Spanish to me. And I am so glad that when we go and visit my family he can play with kids normally. Of course when he speaks Spanish he has an accent and his grammar is not perfect.

Now he is 6 (actually today is his birthday), and he still speaks Spanish. Sometimes he speaks in English but I remind him.

My daughter is now 2 and a half. She understand everything in Spanish but she speaks English with some Spanish words. Unfortunately I did not travel as much with her. But I always ask my son to speak Spanish to her. And mostly he does.

If a DVD has the choice of English or Spanish I set it for Spanish. If I have to read an English story to them, I translate it as I read. Some words he does not understand so I explain them in Spanish. He has asked me to tell them story in English, but I do not unless the story has more meaning in English.

The thing I want to tell you is that if you do not mix languages your children will speak the language. specially if they are small.

I have friends that the mother speaks one language, the father another one and they live in the UK. So the mom speaks to them in her language, the dad in his language, and the kids learned English from TV or then from the school. They can now speak all 3 languages.

I have also friends that married a South African but she felt bad about speaking to her child in Spanish in front of her husband or any other person. Her son now understands Spanish but he does not speak it as much as my son, if he speaks it at all.

So the important thing is if you want your child to speak Afrikaans, you must always speak to them in Afrikaans.

Also if my son is playing with other Spanish speaking children here in Australia, I remind him to speak in Spanish.

Then for other cultural staff you will need to keep doing things to teach them the cultural staff.

[Sibella]

Sibella - you already have at least one Afrikaans friend!

[Sibella]

Oh yes and just wanted to add that my 9 year old daughter does speak Afrikaans perfectly when we are in South Africa with her grandparents and friends. And today when my oldest talked about Granddad the 4 year old said: 'No its Oupa!!'

So there is still hope...

[MG Family]

mmm ... interesting topic

Our kids are aged 16, 14 and 12 and we've been in Aus for about 9 months now. In SA they went to an Afrikaans school and my wife had to some home schooling before our departure to ensure they are exposed to English technical terms, e.g. gradeboog = protractor etc.

We joined a church with several Afrikaans families and our kids made a lot of Afrikaans friends already, in fact, the youth group meeting remains one of their highlights of every week.

They have made a lot of English friends as well, especially at the schools and we are all very accustomed to switch to English when their friends visit or when we are in public.

Our home language remains Afrikaans, what's interesting to note though is how the tone has changed. Even in Afrikaans we mimic the Aus way of ending sentences, some refer to it as the question at the end!

I recently said to our kids that we as parents are glad they were older when we moved here as we express ourselves best in Afrikaans. However, by the time they have their own kids we will be comfortable with their choice of language in their own homes. If it means I will only speak English to my grandchildren, so be it.

Having said that, I believe our kids will most likely continue to speak Afrikaans to their friends and family in Aus and SA for the rest of their lives. Interesting to note that they Facebook a lot, their status updates are both in English and Afrikaans and they often ask us about the spelling of a word in both languages. They also listen to lots of Afrikaans music on their iPods that they download on iTunes.

In conclusion I don't believe my family will lose their Afrikaans heritage and culture just because we moved to Aus. I can't speak for the next generation though, but I can live with that as I believe the benefits gained by the move outweigh the loss of a specific medium of communication.

Groete

MG

PS My son and I played a club cricket game recently and we batted together for about ten overs, during this time we spoke mainly in Afrikaans to neutralise the sledging and to discuss tactics, we still lost the game though so maybe it didn't work!

[Cramer]

This is an interesting Topic, a 'soutie' myself but having done National Service in Bloemfontein, (where if you came from near Durban you were a Dagga Smoking surf bum), I spoke nothing but afrikaans for 2 years. I also went to dual medium schools for 8 years so "Ek kan die taal praat".

If you look at the greek and german communities in South Africa, they have not lost their Identities as greeks or germans. They have their festivals and celebrations, speak languages other than english and afrikaans in their houses and most of the kids are well versed in 3 languages. So you can retain your identity even in a foreign place.

You also have to be able to embrace the ozzie culture, there is no reason you cannot reap the best of both worlds.

En al my afrikaans vriende op hierdie forum, geen probleem, ek sal afrikaans met julle praat!

Edited November 15, 2010 by Cramer

[rudik1982]

friends of mine in Melbourne decided that the Father would only speak english to their 3yo son and the mother would only speak Afrikaans. that way they dont and he doesnt miss out on the afrikaans language heritage.

[LeaveLeft]

My daughter is 2 and afrikaans is our home language. At daycare she hears English all day. So now she mixes the two. The daycare mum will often ask me what certain words mean like eina, voeltjie and varkie... the last one nearly got us into trouble However sometimes we will ask her to do something in Afrikaans... and she does not know what certain words are... asblik versus bin.

My son (15) can still speak Afrikaans, but has lost the ability to read and spell in Afrikaans... He speaks Afrikaans to us, but English to his friends (even if they are from Afrkiaans speaking homes).

I have made peace with the fact that maybe someday my children or grandchildren will not speak Afrikaans, that will be their choice.

[Toitjie]

I haven't made peace with it yet. I dearly try to tell myself that language is only a medium of communication, and does not define a whole culture, but who am i kidding? My son is 5 and I know that he will probably never learn to read and write in Afrikaans, unless i force him to do it at home.....don't know...but I have no peace yet thinking that their children will be English....

its times like this, with thoughts like these, that I resent this beautiful country of ours just a little more because I feel forced to leave...I feel let down and I feel rejected by my own county of birth.....

on a lighter note - regarding my comment that language is only a medium of communication - I have made 2 very good and dear friends on this forum that i email from time to time...both Afrikaans but we email mostly in English because that was the medium of communication we used on this forum when getting acquainted....

[21yearsoutofrsa]

I was required, as were most, to have Afrikaans as a matric subject.

After leaving school the only time I ever used the language again was in that most desirable of employers, the SADF.

Afrikaans as a school subject was the biggest waste of time I have ever had to endure.

While I accept that Afrikaans is a culture in it's own right, and language is an integral part of culture, it is not my culture and I resent it been forced on me my the authorities of the day.

Edited February 5, 2011 by 14 years out of rsa

[Tri-nations]

Ek is Afrikaans getroud met 'n Ingels man (soos my ma sou se) en het hom gou "getrein" want my "is and are and was and were" was heeltemal deurmekaar. My kinders het met al twee tale grootgeword. Ek het gese Afrikaanse skole want ek sou moes huiswerk doen en die "compromise" was Engelse Kerk. Laerskool Charlo in Port Elizabeth en Newtonpark Methodist. Goed gewerk. Toe gebeur immigrasie.

My jongste dogter was toe 9 en wiskunde word toe 'n probleem. Sy kon engels praat maar het nog in afrikaans gedink. Getalle word toe omgedraai en daar begin die hele drama. Sy kan vir jou die som of probleem verduidelik maar die oomblik as sy die neerskryf kom die afrikaans deur. So praat ons toe maar engels in die begin by die huis om haar te help om in engels te dink. En ma huil krokkedil trane toe sy een aand in haar slaap praat en dis in engels. Sy is nou amper 17 en verstaan "gewone" afrikaans maar nie die "groot" woorde nie. Al praat ons hoofsaaklik afrikaans by die huis antwoord sy in engels. Ek sal altyd afrikaans sprekend wees en engels my twee taal. Ek stem saam met die wat se niemand verwag van Grieke of Skotte of wie ookal om hulle herkoms prys te gee nie. Hoekom verwag mense van Afrikaans sprekendes om dit te doen. (En hoop nie ek steek ek nou my kop in 'n bynes in nie).

[Toitjie]

I resent it been forced on me my the authorities of the day.

I never quite felt like this, although, in an Afrikaans school, English was also "forced" on us....

[vuilbaard]

This always amazes me: Afrikaans speaking people are always expected to dump their language, culture, etc. for that of their new country, else they are accused of having a "laager" mentality. But, somehow this is NEVER expected from the English, Germans, French, Chinese, Greeks, Jews, Portugese, etc., etc., etc. ......... Why is that?

It is a VERY normal occurance world-wide that people of the same grouping (race, language, nationality) will naturally tend to stick together. Nothing sinister or evil about it - except if you're Afrikaans it seems.

And it is only this natural grouping together that allows a language/culture/history to stay alive. It has to be exercised by the group and respected by others. Be proud of who you are!

It has been said that if you don't know where you are coming from, then you can't know where you are going to (or something to that effect).

As a child we had English neighbours who refused to speak "that langauge". The long-term result was that the kids in my family learnt to speak VERY good English but the poor neighbours couldn't save their own lives with their poor attempts at Afrikaans.

What annoys me most is these Afrikaans kids who speak English, but with a forced American "twang". Please, get over yourselves! It's rather natural for people from a different language group to speak English with an accent - like the Germans, French, Chinese, Greeks, Jews, Portugese, etc., etc., etc.

[Toitjie]

Vuilbaard - to who did you direct this comment? I dont see anyone being Afrikaans feeling forced to dump their language or culture??

This was a valid question, and as far as i can see, nice, honest answers. I personally don't think that anyone is going to force me or my kids to dump Afrikaans, as you so eloquently put it. But due to circumstances like English schools, naturally our children will become more english orientated in time....that is what we are discussing, and lamenting about...its no-ones fault (well.....our reasons for leaving might explain who's fault it is)

[dawid]

I worked in the UK for a while and loved going to the local tobacco shop. It belonged to a lovely old lady (my guess is 80+) who sat there every day. I only saw other people there 4 times over about three years and 3 times was someone going with me to meet her.

She always had long and interesting stories and asked me (or my friends) what language I spoke and I said Afrikaans, thinking that she is enquiring about my mother tongue. She then replied that she can understand English, Afrikaans, German, Dutch and mentioned some more languages.

It is then that I realised that, she who has never travelled as far as London 40 miles from her home, thought the strange accent was the language.

The Australians can therefore understand Afrikaans – my English with my Afrikaans accent.