Brisbane Bound - Need Input to get me through first bit

[bcbren]

Hello Forum Members, (1st time post)

I am weeks from heading to Brisbane on a PR Visa as a result of a work transfer (ie. my job has ended on this end, but company offered me a role in Australia - employment in engineering projects right now is challenged globally - so I decided to go for it). Due to some complications in family situation, we will arrive in stages staring with myself and two school aged daughters (Yr 7 and Yr 4).

Full disclosure: I am not making a move from South Africa, but rather from Canada where I have lived for my adult life, mostly recently working in mining industry based in Vancouver. However, I was born and raised in South Africa (born in Natal, but lived all over FS and Vaal area). Since I left as a teen with my family in the early 80s, not by my choice, I have always held a strong connections to my motherland, although I know that immigration to Canada was blessing. On recent work trip back I marvelled at how much I am still SA at heart.

So, I have read many posts on this site about practical requests, rants and pleas - I can related to many. I too am anxious about how to settle, even though I don't have the major stress of trying to land a visa or find a job. But I do have worries of my own. My oldest daughter (turning 18 soon) has indicated she will not be coming (or will return to Vancouver for post-secondary shortly after we arrive). And that is her right, I will support her - but letting go of your first born is hard plus all the other stress going on.

School placement for daughter #2 worked out quite nicely, our application for her to start high school at Lourdes Hill College was accepted - she is enrolled to start in Jan. 2015. I am so thankful for this, because she is a very sweet hard-working girl, and attending a faith based school similar to her current school was important to her - not so much for my older (who actually switched here to public). The one factor that enrolling at Lourdes Hill does impact is where to live. I will come on my own for an undetermined length of time, since my husband of 20 years is not ready to leave his work and we encountered some issues on this journey. I need to find a place to live in the Norman Park /Hawthorne area - having no car and also needing to walk the kids to school and pick them up logistically and/or have them do it themselves securely.

Does anyone have any advice about those areas and what to expect. Also, getting my youngest into school looks like it will prove the biggest challenge - the Catholic private school (sts. peter and pauls) in that area is full (probably a good things, since we have some financial issues I didn't expect). Only two public school choices exists within reasonable distance - Norman Park SS (closest to Lourdes Hill) and Morginside SS. Anyone know any reviews or opinions comparing the two? I do know that Norman Park adheres very strictly to an 'in catchment ' enrolment plan - in fact the principal said they would not even consider my application until I had a qualifying permanent address (or proof of lease etc..) - I believe the other not so much. Not sure how to play that one. Is getting a six month lease for a rental a possibility? Or are yearly commitments only option? Is mid-January a bad time to be seeking, and how long might it take in that market? I would be seeking two bedroom apartment, and would need to secure it by Jan 26th - 10 days after arrival for her to be considered for school enrolement.

Well, there you have it. No specific question - but some worries that morph from one thing to the next depending on what is on my horizon. I would appreciate any input /encouragement from locals to Brisbane - but other advice /warnings too.

Best Regards

[Sunnyskies]

Hi bcbren

We are in a similar sort of situation having to make the move to Brisbane afer 6 years in Melbourne when I my office asked me to take up a post in our Brisbane office. We pack up in a few weeks.

In terms of the public schools, the two that you are looking at seem to be great, so you shouldn't worry too much about them. Seems like Norman Park might rate slightly higher than Morningside. If you want to look around at other schools, including the parish schools go to http://bettereducation.com.au/school/Primary/qld/qld_top_primary_schools.aspx. Our debate has been similar as my daughter had already moved to her school that would take her through to year 12 in Melbourne (lovely all girls private school much like Lourdes) and we have to put her back into primary school in Brisbane as most girls schools enrolments only start in year 7 and the ones that start earlier we didn't want to send her to. We have decided to send her to a state school rather than a parish school (in part on the recommendation of the school she will go to in year 7). The ranking of the two schools you mentioned is set out below.

School Locality Yr 5 Enrolments State Overall Score

Norman Park State School Norman Park 42 98

Morningside State School Morningside 43 94

The part that you are going to struggle with will be finding a rental on the right busline for you and your daughters. Public transport doesn't appear to be too bad in Brisbane, but many areas are serviced by bus and not train. There is a train line in Hawthorn but it doesn't go past Lourdes so she may need to transfer from train to bus. If you haven't looked at it yet go to http://translink.com.au/ you can punch in start and end of the journey you are looking at and see how they would service your daughters and yourself. I would suggest you try and get a rental really close to the primary school so your youngest can simply walk home and hopefully the journey won't be too hard for the 9 year old. Hawthorne is probably easier from a transport perspective as you can either use the Citycat or bus and the train is not too far, but it is more expensive from a rental perspective.Be aware that as you move more south rental will get a lot cheaper. If you can deal with the transport I would suggest Norman Park or Cooparoo. We looked at Coopraroo and Hawthorne in our search (didn't land up in either).

My advice on renting in Brisbane is don't rent without seeing the house, we saw many houses on Domaine that looked wonderful, but when I saw them in reality they were terrible!!! I'm not talking about houses in suburbs that you wouldn't feel safe walking in, but houses in what are regarded as "good/desirable" suburbs within an 8 km radius of the city (so generally slightly older more character homes that hadn't been maintained since the sales pictures that were being used to rent them out). Rental is also expensive when you are within 8km of the city centre. The reason for this when I queried with an agent why renting is more expensive is buying is apparently still a hangover from the commodity boom and the number of expats working in Brisbane - I did ask if landlords are aware the boom is busted? Getting a rental was probably the hardest thing for us. On the upside there are a lot of apartments in Brisbane, so if you don't mind apartment living you do have a lot of choice. We had reconciled ourselves to renting an apartment and storing a lot of our furniture when we were really lucky with one of the agents who showed us a house that hadn't been listed yet. If you are going to rent a house unseen, rent something that is fairly new. Bear in mind that aircon is regarded by many as essential in Brisbane, but if no aircon make sure it has ceiling fans. If the house you are looking at is older you have to see current pictures of kitchens and bathrooms and check whether it has built in robes (many don't).

Good luck!!

[bcbren]

Sunnyskies

Thank you so much for your thoughts. Sounds like you have most things sorted out - kudos, I hope to be in that spot soonish. You are right to give advice about rental location and transportation, because although school selection weighs on a parent's mind, in fact once they settle in.. the best school is the one they are in. The issues of homes not being what they seem or lacking aircon or robes or being logistically difficult or having poor access to transit - those are things I should consider carefully!! (or our fresh start will be not as nice as we hope for).

I have worked for same company which is headquartered in Brisbane for a number of years, and so did get chance to travel there twice for a month each - so have used the system (citycat, bus, train) - all good from my experience. However after surviving 17 years in British Columbia rain and for last few years taking the train one hour to work and back each day (mostly in dark by 4pm for several months a year), I am READY for the walking, biking and ferry to work - dream come true for me.

Your comment about the hangover of high rental prices from a boom that seems to have passed leaves me thinking.....does this put pressure on newcomer families such as yourselves to rent short term (even less than a one year lease) and look to BUY a house. I am not sure I can see us making that decision/commitment before really planting down our feet, but based on monthly rent costs it has long term pluses?

Much appreciated again.

[Sunnyskies]

On the rental question I missed in your first post that you are looking for an apartment. Lots of choice.

From my investigations I would say that getting an apartment is easier, there are more due to the large number of property investors. Can't really comment on condition, but I would say try and find a newer block, so you can get the benefit of a pool and gardens.

Whether you can do a six month lease, again I would say no issue (houses are a bit trickier) although obviously the owner would prefer a 12 month lease.

We thought about a six month lease but settled on 12 months for the following reasons:

- the landlord wanted 12 months of certainty (understandable as we did the same in letting our house in Melbourne)

- my youngest has a year left of primary school before moving schools and so we needed certainty for her

- we did look at buying (because is cheaper than renting in Brisbane) but decided we need to first settle and 12 months would give us more perspective

- I'm over packing (we have moved house 3 times in 6 years with move number 4 just around the corner) and doing so again in 6 months time was making me feel nauseous just thinking about it (haven't started yet for the move that happens mid December because I find it so unappealing and so decided will do under pressure over 7 days before the removalists arrive - also did BIG clean out just 12 months ago so basically under control in the clutter department)

- too hard to try and buy when I have limited time to look at houses

[Fish]

Sunnyskies

....

Your comment about the hangover of high rental prices from a boom that seems to have passed leaves me thinking.....does this put pressure on newcomer families such as yourselves to rent short term (even less than a one year lease) and look to BUY a house. I am not sure I can see us making that decision/commitment before really planting down our feet, but based on monthly rent costs it has long term pluses?

Much appreciated again.

I have always found inner Brisbane houses far more expensive to buy than rent, especially in the inner more expensive areas you are looking at. Where did you notice the opposite sunnyskies ?

Edited November 26, 2014 by Fish

[Sunnyskies]

Pretty much everywhere I looked. I was surprised when I looked at some houses that I would have thought would be very expensive and then discovered that their sale price was actually much less than I thought. I took to looking at the sale prices of each of the areas I looked for a rental and then looked at the rental prices. Granted there are some beautiful homes with very high price tags, but their rental prices are also through the roof.

So you ask which suburbs, I would have to say Toowong, Taringa, Chelmer, Graceville, Sherwood, Cooparoo, Norman Park, Holland Park, Tarraginidi, Clayfield, Wooloowin, Wilston, Fig Tree Pocket, Chapel Hill. Cannot really comment on Ascot, and Hamilton, as I didn't do the comparison but the rentals for were pretty eye watering for houses that were not great (think broken kitchen counters, old kitchens, very very old bathrooms with very very old fixtures, not painted for last 20 years, terrible cupboards (if any), also cannot comment on Bardon and Ashgrove as very few rentals and the ones that were on the net weren't suitable for us.

I raised this with the agents and they agreed that buying would definitely get you more bang for your buck.

[Fish]

Whenever I have done the sums the outcome has been the opposite by a fair way. I must use a wonky calculator.

Even the run down homes are generally 600,000 in the inner city. So about 4000+ per month to buy. Their rent is generally 2400-3000 per month....very roughly. Gets worse as the houses get dearer.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Fish

[Caz]

In our area (Wishart, MacKenzie, Mansfield, Carindale) buying is seriously expensive

Great rentals are scarce too. You can look a bit further for cheaper houses and a great range of rentals (Rochedale, Mt Gravatt, etc), but then run the risk of missing the cut off for school catchment.

[bcbren]

One can look at it from both sides. I have always been a home owner (almost 20 years) so renting is new concept to wrap our head around. But the risk is lower; of making an unwise investment, or choosing something that doesn't meet our needs, of not liking the neighbourhood or school (or finding the dream one some place else) or being locked into a market if prices drop. However I think the rate you quoted before of $4000/month seems high? Or is that the mortgage amount..... then surely some of that is principle and you can't do a side by side cost breakeven ?

My question are

1) what are the typically mortgage interest rate (currently, say fixed for 5 year term) if you don't count need for protection or insurance - assume 1/2 down?

2) what was the impact of the floods that hit Brisbane, I know it was a few years ago, but I don't seem to see a big impact on year over year prices. Or was the effect very local/pin pointed to damaged homes?

3) sunnyskies indicated a six month rental is an option in Australia, that is what I will seek - request 6 month with option to renew for another 6 months - will this be a hurdle for us?

4) What about move in date? Are they all typically 1st of month type leases - seems many are not, they say available now or available 15th of month. In Vancouver everybody and dog moves on the 1st of the month and always one month notice is required - not sure why that is, but it just is. Can someone comment if Australia is more varied on that.

[Caz]

Sorry I'm not really answering your question, but Brisbane still experiences flash floods.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/11/27/18/27/heavy-storms-damage-brisbane-area

You can use this map for flood awareness for a specific property.

http://floodinformation.brisbane.qld.gov.au/fio/

Also, here's a typical mortgage calculator.

http://www.anz.com.au/personal/home-loans/calculators-tools/

Edited November 27, 2014 by cmh

[Sunnyskies]

To answer 3 and 4

3. Your rental period could be for a fixed period or monthly. Most landlords like at least 6 months and then flip into monthly, but a property that is not moving is likely to take a monthly. Our first rental in Aus was 18 months (big mistake), then we moved to another with a 12 month lease and then it became a monthly.

4. Move date is whatever you negotiate, and in many instances that will be the date that you also pay your rent if paying on a monthly basis. I found it surprising that in Melbourne everyone takes a monthly rent (calculate by multiplying the weekly rent by 52 and divide by 12) but in Brisbane they want it weekly.

[Fish]

2) what was the impact of the floods that hit Brisbane, I know it was a few years ago, but I don't seem to see a big impact on year over year prices. Or was the effect very local/pin pointed to damaged homes?

​Even though only 3% of properties were affected it probably had a dampening on Brisbane prices as a whole because at one stage it was reported that we became the cheapest mainland capital...lower than Adelaide....not sure if this was true but vaguely remember the report. So in a way it was a good thing as it took some steam out of the market.

3) sunnyskies indicated a six month rental is an option in Australia, that is what I will seek - request 6 month with option to renew for another 6 months - will this be a hurdle for us?

Some agents/landlords will insist on 12 month if they can get it, some will allow 6 months. No fixed rule as down to supply and demand. Almost all list price as weekly but some will want payment monthly and some weekly.

4) What about move in date? Are they all typically 1st of month type leases - seems many are not, they say available now or available 15th of month. In Vancouver everybody and dog moves on the 1st of the month and always one month notice is required - not sure why that is, but it just is. Can someone comment if Australia is more varied on that.

Move date all over the place. Just depends when the last people move out and the cleaning is complete.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Fish

[Sunnyskies]

Whenever I have done the sums the outcome has been the opposite by a fair way. I must use a wonky calculator.

Even the run down homes are generally 600,000 in the inner city. So about 4000+ per month to buy. Their rent is generally 2400-3000 per month....very roughly. Gets worse as the houses get dearer.

If I ever land up meeting you Fish I'll happily share the info from my banker, but I can say that I was surprised, as was my banker when he found out that the spec amount he did his calculations on would cover the price of a decent house in Brissie. Hopefully house prices remain under control, as I know what it feels like to be chasing a rising market.

[bcbren]

Hi All,

Arrived in Brisbane few days ago and everything has gone smoothly. I will write a post about my experience, but I need help making a decision. I just posted this is the Eduction section.... but thought since I got good replies before about getting rental in Brisbane, I would add to this thread. I am happy with the apartment we got and things went well with applications and acceptance. thanks.....now onto first drama

Might be something only Brisbane locals can truly influence but I am all ears for the wisdom of others that don't know the two respective schools.

Middle daughter is accepted to Lourdes Hill College and so is her younger sister (9yrs. - Yr. 4) at later stage. For this year I had applied at Sts. Peter and Pauls Catholic private school based on preference and ratings - but it was full - and even after several email request about a spot opening up (and some prayers) it did not. So I resorted to finding a good state school reputation in similar area, and thankfully settled on Norman Park S.S. She isn't enrolled there yet, but I spent my first weekend getting an apartment rental with year lease in the catchment area, so there would be not arguement that she could rightfully attend. This was stressful (and I limited my search to the walkable area around NPSS). Success - we signed a lease and I will email the principle this week to advise her that my daughter will be coming.

About an hour after paying the two week rent on apartment, an email came (after months with no correspondence with St. P&Ps) that a spot was available for Yr. 4 - can I come for an interview. Oh my! I said yes, and plan to go but now am not sure that it right decision.

Our financial situation isn't quite what I expected it might be, lost lots of $ on house sale before moving and my spouse hasn't found job so he will follow in a couple months when I feel ready to quit his employment.... then look for however long it takes.

So, I have five days to decide.

One other fact, even if I could get out of the lease for the apartment and be closer to the st. P&P school, the rents are much more expensive as go up towards Bulimba....however the walk from near Norman Park ferry stop(new apartment) is very far to Sts. P&P - and my youngest gets tired and puffy in heat and with long treks...

[Sunnyskies]

Bcbren, I've had my children in parish schools in Melbourne but having listened to people with children in the state system I think that you will be fine to send your daughter to the state school. As you know we moved from Melbourne to Brisbane in December and my daughter has asked that she spends her last year of primary school in a state primary school. So we are busy enrolling her in Sherwood state school at the moment. One major reason for going state rather than parish was that the school she will go to next year (private girls school much like Lourdes) recommended that we go state rather than parish. Very interesting ....

[Fish]

Some recent stories:

"NAPLAN results show students at public schools performing just as well or better than private school students"

See: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/naplan-results-show-students-at-public-schools-performing-just-as-well-or-better-than-private-school-students/story-fnn8dlfs-1227188898420

"The cost of educating children from Prep to year 12 has been revealed in an Education Index survey"

See: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/the-cost-of-educating-children-from-prep-to-year-12-has-been-revealed-in-an-education-index-survey/story-e6freon6-1227189999774

And this also may be relevant:

"Parents swap school fees for big mortgage"

See: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/parents-swap-school-fees-for-big-mortgage/story-e6freoof-1226567056762

Many of the top 10 NAPLAN ranking primary schools each year are state schools...rainworth, chapel hill, ashgrove, bardon, ironside, clay field etc. The fact that you live in a high socio economic inner city area seems to have more affect on the results than whether private, religious or state.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Fish

[bcbren]

thank you Sunnyskies for the reassurance in favour of staying with the state school. I tend to agree and if my only concern is with results, then I am very comfortable at this stage of education with the quality and impact on her learning to leave her in NPSS.

My only issue was with trying to create a circle of support, perhaps not just for my youngest child, but maybe for our whole family. We really do need to make friends and branch out to a community a bit to replace what we left. I was thinking that there might be a difference in this way, since it seems many students from the parish school go on to Lourdes Hill College, they are both Catholic and very close in proximity. I am not sure if the ideal of a parish family exists by extension in the primary school? Perhaps that is not the case, and I can find the same by attending church in area. My three daughters were in the same school all their school lives so far, and now each is separate (one in post-secondary in Canada, one in High School and one a primary)....it is a change for sure.

However after all these considerations, I still think that not paying extra money where it is not needed should be my guiding point. Do you think your child's future highschool recommended the Sherwood school since many of the peers will also go that route - or it was something unique to the schooling at that particular school or they prefer government primary education route or they were speaking specifically about your situation (which is similar to mine, although your daughter only has one year to integrate vs. three for mine).

I wish you all the best for a very good 'Back to School' in any regards.

[Sunnyskies]

Hi Bcbrn

To answer your questions:

1. The secondary school had a view that the state schools are better resourced than the parish schools. My girl has been in extension maths in her school in Melbourne and was being pushed along very nicely in that program, with her end of year results indicating that she is probably 6 months ahead. I wanted a school that would be able to accommodate that most appropriately. From talking to the secondary school they said that the parish schools just don't have the funds for extension teaching, and that the state option was my best option for her needs. When I spoke to them I thought I would be living in Bardon/Ashgrove area so they mentioned the same schools that Fish had in his post. But we couldn't find a decent rental there so landed up in the Sherwood catchment. The school is still well rated on the web, and talking to people in the know they all had good things to say about the school.

2. from a community perspective I hear you and that was why we chose a parish school in Melbourne. A few observations from my experience there:

a) a lot of the children in the school only see a church when they are required to attend church for school, or on Christmas and Easter. We did connect with some families that went to church, but I suspect that you would probably do likewise if you go to church in the area in which the school is located.

while the parish schools are feeder schools for the private schools, the intake of the private school is so much larger than the parish school and so there are a lot of children coming from other schools. In my son's old school in Melbourne almost all the boys from his parish school class went to his secondary school but the intake was so big that he changed friends and we only really kept in touch with the boys from his parish school who were in his basketball team. So perhaps sport is a better way to connect to others.

c) last year my daughter moved from the parish school to what would have been her secondary school as they have a Year 5 intake. She moved with one other girl from the parish school, who was definitely not a friend. She connected well with the girls from the other schools and they came from a variety of schools, with a number coming from the local state school. I think that parents often move to an area which will work for them for secondary schooling and that the primary school is then a secondary consideration. Also the parents from the local state school also seemed to have a good sense of community, so I'm pretty sure you will get that at NPSS.

Best of luck to you to, as we run around getting everything ready for first day at school next week....