Bests vs. Worsts, Pros vs. Cons, Ups vs. Downs

[NickiD]

Hi again everyone

Reading the posts on this forum really has been eye-opening. With my husband having an Aussie passport and citizenship, it's always been a possibility for us to emigrate, but with family planning their own move and an increase in close-to-home crime, it's really now becoming our reality.

One of the things that my husband and I were talking about was the issue of adjusting to life outside of South Africa. We live well here - we don't want for much. Except, of course, for peace of mind in terms of our children's freedom and safety in their own country. And that, at this stage and for the long term, is our priority.

We're busy applying for our standard docs: birth certificates, renewed passports etc, completing the Immi account info. We have businesses to tie up, a home to sell and a law degree to convert etc, so the process is still going to be around another year or so.

What I want to ask in this post is:

1. What have you found to be the most difficult thing about your move?

2. What have you found to be the easiest thing about your move?

3. Is there anything you wish you'd done differently prior to or during your move?

4. What would be your top 5 tips for a family of 4 who are planning their move, to make it go as smooth as possible?

5. Where would you say is the best place to live (this is personal opinion, obviously) and why?

Thanks so much!

[HansaPlease]

Hi, and welcome... Here goes...

1 being away from family and friends. It's by far the hardest thing

2 getting on with life without having to worry about crime - it still happens, but doesn't control your life. Getting lost is a breeze because it just means you'll be late, rather than- you'll be hijacked. I can't put into words the sense if freedom this gives you

3 Started working on parents and family to make the move. Now some of them are thinking about it and it's too late

4 remember why you came! Don't try to recreate home, it is different. If you don't like the way things are done here, you won't be able to change it so accept it or it will drive you crazy

5 if I had a bottomless money pit and a slave to fan me all day, then either somewhere like Noosa or Central Coast, NSW. Or Bright. Actually, I dunno, I think I'd have to live in Qld for winter and Vic for summer. This is really a tough one. We do love where we live, but is it the best? I dunno.

[NickiD]

Thank you! I especially like your answer to #4 - REMEMBER WHY YOU CAME AND DON'T TRY TO RECREATE HOME! I guess that's the thing - it's a HUGE change so you can't expect things to stay the same. Thanks again

[DXB2OZ]

1. The littlest things sneak up on you. Not a fan of the chocolate, don't like the bacon and really miss having access to a massive range of fruit juice. So many things that you take for granted as being done or said a certain way are done or said differently. Everyone here will take it for granted that this is perfectly normal so you know this, but you don't. Be prepared to spend the first few months confused and craving certain foodstuffs.

To a certain extent, you are prepared to miss people, but perhaps unprepared for how complete the loneliness is. You have nobody. If you are without a partner, you have even less. It is very very very hard.

2. Settling the kids at their new school has been the best part. There is still homesickness and tears, but it has gone so much better than expected. It is amazing how much pride you suddenly take in doing things for yourself. That first time putting petrol in - awesome!! Actually in my case am proud every time I manage to get the cap open - have had issues in the past. Keeping your own house clean and tidy - it is at this point that you get down on your knees and thank the good Lord that you couldn't afford anything bigger. You really do need to focus on the little wins - it keeps you going.

3. Nope, although I wish I'd packed more of my favourite toothpaste

4. Plan, plan, plan, plan.....and then be prepared to chuck the plan out the window and wing it. You can't have a perfect move. Be as prepared as possible, but also go with the flow. Things change, plans change and it's ok.

5. Too personal. We visited Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane for our LSD (although obviously only a few suburbs in each) and I honestly could have found something to live about living in each one. Break it down further and here within Melbourne you can drive 5 minutes and the next 'burb has a totally different feel. It depends on where you work, where you play, how you play, what matters most, what matters least and all importantly, what you can afford. Add the headache of schools to that mix and you have a major nightmare on your hands. Just remember, nothing is permanent or final.

[SurferMan]

1. What have you found to be the most difficult thing about your move? Having to go to zero in our case, no assets, no nothing. Of course almost zero support base, but you build one up. Leaving family and friends.

2. What have you found to be the easiest thing about your move? Saying goodbye to rampant crime, violence, rape, plunder, BEE, entitlement etc.

3. Is there anything you wish you'd done differently prior to or during your move? Yes, more research on suburbs. Would have brought some goods like Weber and tools.

4. What would be your top 5 tips for a family of 4 who are planning their move, to make it go as smooth as possible? Depending on the age of your kids, have their security blanket/toy with them will help them. I went on a bit of a propaganda campaign to promote the positives of Aus, and it worked a treat.

5. Where would you say is the best place to live (this is personal opinion, obviously) and why? Totally subjective, I live in perth and its very nice where I stay, but am planning to move to Brisbane 1st chance I get

[Sunnyskies]

Agree with Hansa. On #5 people will all say where they live is best.

My advice is to be really honest about who you are and then Google like mad to find a similar sort of neighbourhood. I did that in our move to Melbourne and only went slightly off rail when I listened to everyone else. We now live about 3km away from the original target zone in our own house and I think the neighbourhood is a good fit for us. There are good suburbs all the way around Melbourne so you can't go too far wrong.

[monsta]

1 being away from family and friends. It's by far the hardest thing

3 Started working on parents and family to make the move. Now some of them are thinking about it and it's too late

Sorry to pick on you .I honestly don't understand those two answers. I have friends and family who are *genuinely* happy in RSA. I am happy for them because they are happy. Many of them have good jobs in RSA that would never match here.

Also, you have to want to make Aussie work for you. If you don't, you will hate it here. I think people should move because they are ready for the change, not because they feel pressured into moving. Living in Aussie isn't automatically better than living in RSA.

4. What would be your top 5 tips for a family of 4 who are planning their move, to make it go as smooth as possible?

I worked with my companie's aussie office from RSA. When we moved out to Aus we moved to the neighbourhood down the road. So, we had several colleaues we could ask questions like, "which GP should we go to?" or "which streets shouldn't we live on?".

I know we were very lucky. But you could do something simmilar by prioritising making friends in your neighbourhood once you have arrived. You could visit a church (or mosque), meet parents from your kids schools or try sites like http://www.meetup.com/cities/au/

The locals are a wealth of information. They can tell you things like, "don't go to XXX doctors rooms, sure medicare pays but you could queue for 2 hours. Try YYY doctors rooms as they take appointments online and medicare still pays.". Just imagine being stuck with your kids waiting 2 hours for a doctor!

Edited October 1, 2014 by monsta

[HansaPlease]

I honestly don't understand those two answers. I have friends and family who are *genuinely* happy in RSA. I am happy for them because they are happy. Many of them have good jobs in RSA that would never...

I'm not talking about people who are happy there, I'm talking about people that expressed an interest in coming over. I helped them look at options and with paperwork but they got lazy and left it for a few years. Now they are starting to see why they should have made the move but the avenues they had before are closing and it may be too late.

I have plenty of friends and family who are perfectly happy in SA and I'm happy for them. I agree that it's not for everyone.

Edited October 1, 2014 by HansaPlease

[chzaau]

Here a question. Before tax. 1 million rand job in South Africa, say Cape Town or same job for 105 K AUD in Sydney.

Another question, retirement in Oz on bare basic 30 K Aud gov grant or in RSA on 400 k rands. Both after tax.

[HansaPlease]

The question doesn't make sense.

[chzaau]

Okay what sort of life do you feel you could have between the two countries on the two different incomes types.

[SurferMan]

Doesnt make sense to me either. Can you expand? Is your house paid? The car? I would prefere Aus anyways, i can still walk or hobble in my old age and stand a good chance of not getting nailed by some crimneenal.

[leeferg1]

I may be way off base here, but if you've got the required skills to earn R1 million in South Africa, surely you'd have more earning potential than $105 000 in Oz?

The pension thing would then follow on as you'd have much more in super and/or saved etc.

[SurferMan]

I agree leeferg1,

I have doubled my income in Aus.

[monsta]

Here a question. Before tax. 1 million rand job in South Africa, say Cape Town or same job for 105 K AUD in Sydney.

Another question, retirement in Oz on bare basic 30 K Aud gov grant or in RSA on 400 k rands. Both after tax.

Practically the Cape Town job pays twice as much as the Sydney one. A 105k job in Sydney is equivalent to a R450 000 job in Cape Town.

30k Aud grant is peanuts. Its below minimum wage. The only way you could make that work is if you have a place to live thats paid for.

[HansaPlease]

Okay what sort of life do you feel you could have between the two countries on the two different incomes types.

A very good one in Cape Town if you manage to escape crime. A comfortable one in Sydney - but the point is - as others have pointed out, those salaries don't stack up as good comparisons to each other.

The Cape Town salary is one that most people can only dream of. The Sydney one is closer to average for a professional, but fairly attainable.

Unless my knowledge SA salaries is out of whack?

[heidim]

The easiest part was the kids. They adjusted super quickly.

Some of the things I found difficult: adjusting to the nanny state. I understand and appreciate the rules and regulations, but coming from a country where everyone just do as they please, I sometimes find the nanny-ing annoying. Being given a lecture at the pharmacy on how to use Aspirin (so just buy it from a supermarket), taking the kids to a public swimming pool where they insist kids under 8 years have to be within arms reach of you inside the kiddies pool otherwise the whistle blows overtime (regardless of the fact that they had a year of swimming lessons and the water is only waist high for kids). Okay let me stop whining. Familiarity with how things work and where to buy stuff was quite an adjustment.

Some tips: Bring a decent mop! Like Floorwiz Pro with several re-fillers. Haven't been able to find a decent mop in Brissie. Take pictures of your current house inside and out. The kids are now starting to ask questions and we don't have pics to show them. If you have the grandparents on board, (and the post office strike eventually ends), make arrangements with them to send kids letters in the mail. My kids were fascinated by the fact that mail gets delivered to your house and they got weekly letters, pictures, stickers from the grandparents. It made the grandparents feel part of our lives and the kids were so excited to see their names on an envelope.

That's all I can think of now.

[Sunnyskies]

The easiest part was the kids. They adjusted super quickly.

Some of the things I found difficult: adjusting to the nanny state. I understand and appreciate the rules and regulations, but coming from a country where everyone just do as they please, I sometimes find the nanny-ing annoying. Being given a lecture at the pharmacy on how to use Aspirin (so just buy it from a supermarket), taking the kids to a public swimming pool where they insist kids under 8 years have to be within arms reach of you inside the kiddies pool otherwise the whistle blows overtime (regardless of the fact that they had a year of swimming lessons and the water is only waist high for kids). Okay let me stop whining. Familiarity with how things work and where to buy stuff was quite an adjustment.

Some tips: Bring a decent mop! Like Floorwiz Pro with several re-fillers. Haven't been able to find a decent mop in Brissie. Take pictures of your current house inside and out. The kids are now starting to ask questions and we don't have pics to show them. If you have the grandparents on board, (and the post office strike eventually ends), make arrangements with them to send kids letters in the mail. My kids were fascinated by the fact that mail gets delivered to your house and they got weekly letters, pictures, stickers from the grandparents. It made the grandparents feel part of our lives and the kids were so excited to see their names on an envelope.

That's all I can think of now.

Get a steamer. Haven't used a mop since. So much easier.

[Parks]

Hi Sunnyskies,

How much is a steamer?

[ottg]

Here a question. Before tax. 1 million rand job in South Africa, say Cape Town or same job for 105 K AUD in Sydney.

Another question, retirement in Oz on bare basic 30 K Aud gov grant or in RSA on 400 k rands. Both after tax.

Too many unknowns in this question.

While not knowing your circumstances perhaps consider what you need to do in order NOT to retire on bare basics only.

Practically the Cape Town job pays twice as much as the Sydney one. A 105k job in Sydney is equivalent to a R450 000 job in Cape Town.

30k Aud grant is peanuts. Its below minimum wage. The only way you could make that work is if you have a place to live thats paid for.

Alternatively and perhaps a different approach is to browse this website and then to plug your numbers into the financial tools available:

https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/tools-and-resources/calculators-and-apps

Then please give us feedback how it worked for your circumstance and how it may help others........

[OnYellowBrickRd]

Hi Sunnyskies,

How much is a steamer?

Look online. I bought one for $29!

[Chantalgr]

5. Where would you say is the best place to live (this is personal opinion, obviously) and why? Totally subjective, I live in perth and its very nice where I stay, but am planning to move to Brisbane 1st chance I get

I'm inquisitive now about your comment;-) I know quite a few South Africans that have moved and that want to move to Brisbane. Could you share your reasons for wanting to leave Perth to move to Brisbane?

Have you ever been to Brisbane?

[NewFutureAhoy]

1. The littlest things sneak up on you. Not a fan of the chocolate, don't like the bacon and really miss having access to a massive range of fruit juice. So many things that you take for granted as being done or said a certain way are done or said differently. Everyone here will take it for granted that this is perfectly normal so you know this, but you don't. Be prepared to spend the first few months confused and craving certain foodstuffs.

To a certain extent, you are prepared to miss people, but perhaps unprepared for how complete the loneliness is. You have nobody. If you are without a partner, you have even less. It is very very very hard.

2. Settling the kids at their new school has been the best part. There is still homesickness and tears, but it has gone so much better than expected. It is amazing how much pride you suddenly take in doing things for yourself. That first time putting petrol in - awesome!! Actually in my case am proud every time I manage to get the cap open - have had issues in the past. Keeping your own house clean and tidy - it is at this point that you get down on your knees and thank the good Lord that you couldn't afford anything bigger. You really do need to focus on the little wins - it keeps you going.

3. Nope, although I wish I'd packed more of my favourite toothpaste

4. Plan, plan, plan, plan.....and then be prepared to chuck the plan out the window and wing it. You can't have a perfect move. Be as prepared as possible, but also go with the flow. Things change, plans change and it's ok.

5. Too personal. We visited Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane for our LSD (although obviously only a few suburbs in each) and I honestly could have found something to live about living in each one. Break it down further and here within Melbourne you can drive 5 minutes and the next 'burb has a totally different feel. It depends on where you work, where you play, how you play, what matters most, what matters least and all importantly, what you can afford. Add the headache of schools to that mix and you have a major nightmare on your hands. Just remember, nothing is permanent or final.

The bacon is terrible! But the rest of the food is amazing!!!!

[PTLF]

I'm inquisitive now about your comment;-) I know quite a few South Africans that have moved and that want to move to Brisbane. Could you share your reasons for wanting to leave Perth to move to Brisbane?

Have you ever been to Brisbane?

I would also like to know, please SurferMan

[SurferMan]

Hey guys,

Yes sure, here goes. I know a few guys in my line of work who have worked both east and west coast contracts and they say it is cheaper to live there. We are both former KZN people, so I miss the humidity (Okay maybe not so much anymore, lol) the summer rain storms and general tropical feel of the place, and you dont get that in Perth. Perth has a tiny SAP market, Brissie is bigger and more diversified. The lifestyle is better in my opinion based on what we prefer. (biased)

The job market in Perth is shrinking no doubt on that one. I am also able to fly to Sydney/Melbourne for work should I need to. Fishing is way better than Perth. I have been to Brissie, albeit briefly. I also work with a number of people who have lived anything from 2 - 25 years in Brissie and they would go back in an instant, but are constrained by some committment. E,g family, kids etc. I also have an abiding love for the Queenslander style houses, unlike the newer cookie cutter Perth houses that are built 0.00001mm from one another. I like my space and remoteness and am happy to pay a premium for it.

These and many other reasons are driving me to Brissie. As you can read it is a personal view. And dont get me wrong, I like Perth and I am UBER grateful to be able to have PR and live in Aus. But Im at the point where I wanna throw down some roots, and we want it to be Brissie.