Chartered accountant - are there still jobs available..

[RenierV]

Hi All

This is my first post, as I have only recently decided to look seriously into a possible relocation to Australia.

I have been doing a lot of reading on the forums and I get the idea that it is tough for South African CA's to get jobs. 2 days ago I applied to an Australian Accounting firm that advertised in an SA magazine. They have been very helpful as apparently they have sponsored quite a few CA (SA)'s who are still working for them. The nice thing is they will offer you a job even before you have started your Visa application. My application is still under review. The problem is that all the vacancies are at their branches in Rural Australia, this made me wonder if work in the cities are limited due to all the immigrants and one needs to focus your attention to the smaller towns?

I don't really mind doing that as I grew up in a small town and I like the small town vibe.

Perhaps someone that works in Accounting could give me a few pointers?

Regards

[Maligso]

I'm going to follow this topic as am not a CA but have done BCompt and articles and I arrive in Feb on 189visa with no job setup yet...

[DeepFriedMatt]

Hi Renier

Welcome to the forum and good luck with the job application.

My girlfriend and I are both CAs and are planning a move to Melbourne. We haven't done too much research yet as we were only granted the visas this week. But I can share the impression I've had so far of the job market in Aus for CAs.

To me it seems that the big four are all still hiring, although you would most likely have to start in audit. Sydney and Melbourne have the most positions available. A friend on the forum (Itai) put me in touch with a recruiter based in Melbourne and she contacted me almost immediately for more information and to find out when we are planning to move. So there definitely seemed to be an interest.

Other CA friends that have also just been granted their visas have said that Deloitte Sydney is looking for a decent number of audit managers. I also know of people who moved to Aus straight out of articles and got an internal transfer through one of the big four.

Not sure what opportunities are like outside of the big four and outside of audit. I'm sure it's not as easy but still possible to come across. From a brief search I did of positions available in commerce (financial controller, financial manager etc) most companies were looking for people who had Australian experience So it could be easier to start out at one of the big four, get some Aus experience and then make a move into commerce.

You might want to consider getting a 189 PR visa so that you won't be tied down to a specific area or a particular employer.

Good luck!

Edited September 25, 2014 by DeepFriedMatt

[eitai2001]

Just to top up Matt's advice. My understanding is that Audit busy season here is around June - September, so if you were to apply for audit, those would be the best times to do it.

I stand to be corrected about the dates, but busy season is always the best time to apply for a position in Audit.

[Jill]

Hi, just to add to this, going Rural might be the way to go, if you want to get some of that "Australian" experience, We moved to Australia 7 years ago on a 457 visa, my son was just finishing his Degree at PMB Uni, so flew over 5 months later. We still wanted him to do his Honours even though they don't need it here, so he did that correspondence through UNISA for the next year. Then he started working at a CA firm here in Emerald. He has now been with them over 5 years, about 5 months ago he was offered a partnership which he happily accepted, and now at the age of 27 he is a partner in a firm. He is also studying Financial Planning at the moment too. Emerald is in Central Qld, so we are really rural, sacrifices are made, but if he wants to get away, he hops on a plane to Brisbane, Melbourne, a few trips to SA. So maybe going Rural is the way to go, if you really want to work your way up. Also what he likes is in the big 4 firms, you might only get to do "part of the job" whereas here he gets to see the job through from start to finish. He loves his career. Hope that helps.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Jill

[Bronwyn&Co]

Agree with Jill. Even if it's a culture shock and you might be in for some different weather, I think it's a way of getting the traditional Aussie lifestyle. The people are reported to be friendly and - for some careers - there's more chance of work because you're not competing with 50 others. It will involve flexibility and open-mindedness.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Bronwyn&Co

[RenierV]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the advice

[Donovan83]

There's quite a bit available in Melbourne... I think the comments made by others that working for a firm (in audit ) is probably your best starting point. After a year or two you can move over in to industry. The pay isn't bad but the cost of living means you won't live the easy luxurious life that you would live in SA as a CA... so for example, you may need to choose to buy either a house or a car, instead of both.

[RYLC]

Xero is based in Melbourne and have done a lot of hiring lately for the accountants with an IT bent.

[monsta]

There's quite a bit available in Melbourne... I think the comments made by others that working for a firm (in audit ) is probably your best starting point. After a year or two you can move over in to industry. The pay isn't bad but the cost of living means you won't live the easy luxurious life that you would live in SA as a CA... so for example, you may need to choose to buy either a house or a car, instead of both.

Agreed. Accountants earn more in RSA compared to everyone else. CAs don't earn badly here, but nothing amazing. Ultimately you want move into industry (e.g. a CFO) or you get a job working with corporates at one of the big 4.

There just isn't the skills shortage thzt there is in RSA. Here there are government loans to help you get your degree, there is plenty of well paying part time work. So, a CA just isn't as hard to get as it is in RSA.

Edited September 29, 2014 by monsta

[Splinky]

My 2 cents... We have just recently landed in Sydney (17 Sept) and have been in contact with numerous recruitment agents and firms from large centres like Sydney and Brisbane to small places like Merimbula and Gatton... and no bites so far. We have sent out so many job applications from about 3 months before we left SA and have been networking as much as we can. The market looks tougher out there than we imagined. I don't feel we have been picky about the jobs we are applying for and are mostly going for auditing jobs. The general feedback seems to be one of the following: 1) Overqualified for the position 2) Need Aussie experience 3) Need an established client base or network 4) Need citizenship. I'm sure we will find something soon but I honestly thought it would be easier.

[Donovan83]

Splinky - why on earth would you need citizenship? Do you have PR?

I have noticed that it's easier for people who have just finished their articles in RSA to join as an auditor. I think for those that finished articles, moved out into commerce and now want to move back again it's harder because they are possibly out of touch with the methodology and are more commercially focused.

[Nev]

Some of the government and companies working for government are only able to take people with citizenship, probably more common in Canberra though

[RenierV]

I've only been out of auditing for 5 years, so I think I should still be OK when it comes to being up to date. The difficult part for me is that I'm only 30 but already a CFO of a large company, so if I move to Australia I think it will probably put me back another 5 or 6 years in terms of career development. One has to balance that against the negatives of staying in SA which makes the decision very difficult for me.

[Donovan83]

I've only been out of auditing for 5 years, so I think I should still be OK when it comes to being up to date. The difficult part for me is that I'm only 30 but already a CFO of a large company, so if I move to Australia I think it will probably put me back another 5 or 6 years in terms of career development. One has to balance that against the negatives of staying in SA which makes the decision very difficult for me.

Wow - nice! Well maybe you could avoid rejoining the audit world again - unless it's something you want to do?

[RenierV]

Donovan,

The only reason i'm considering auditing is due to my lack of Australian tax experience, which seems to be an issue when it comes to commercial jobs. I am not fond of auditing to put it mildly, but it seems like that is the easiest way to get into Australia for a CA. Maybe auditing can do something for me for once

[Bronwyn&Co]

Wow you guys make audit sound worse than being a garbage collector or cleaner at a public toilet, lol.

[eitai2001]

Wow you guys make audit sound worse than being a garbage collector or cleaner at a public toilet, lol.

It's about the same, in both cases, you end up dealing with a lot of sh*t

[Splinky]

The citizenship is mostly for Canberra jobs where they do a lot of government work and you need citizenship for clearance. We have a friend who is very recently qualified and landed a job in audit in Perth within 2 weeks of arriving there. I think those with more years of experience are often considered "over qualified" for the junior positions and lack Aussie experience needed for more senior roles. Tough place to be, but we have heard that once you can crack a job, it doesn't take too long to work your way back up.

[Donovan83]

Donovan,

The only reason i'm considering auditing is due to my lack of Australian tax experience, which seems to be an issue when it comes to commercial jobs. I am not fond of auditing to put it mildly, but it seems like that is the easiest way to get into Australia for a CA. Maybe auditing can do something for me for once

I totally get that. I have a hatred for audit that burns white hot, even years after I completed my prison sentence (articles).

It's about the same, in both cases, you end up dealing with a lot of sh*t

Back in Perth, I was asked if I'd like to branch out from my normal role and maybe take on an audit client because it's an "exciting opportunity" on an "excellent client" that would look great on my CV.

My exact response to their delightful opportunity was (and these are my exact words), that I'd rather lick the toilets clean at City Beach. And I truly would. There's something about audit that just I just absolutely loathe.

[AFreshStart]

I've shared this before, but my wife is in audit, by choice, for one of the Big 4.

In 10 years of working for them, 3 of which were articles, she's risen to senior management working on their largest Cape Town client (worth over R100 million a year in audit fees).

In moving she's been offered the same position, had our pick of Melbourne or Sydney and been given 2 of their biggest finance clients. Her company is paying all our relocation costs: container, air tickets and settling in allowance, and we could have been offered a similar post with another of the Big 4 if she wanted it.

She has no Aus experience, has never even visited, her Aus experience wasn't in question. She had 3 telephonic interviews and the job was hers, with the support and blessing of her firm here in SA.

So I get that many might loathe audit, but in our case it's been a blessing and we are most grateful for the opportunity.

Cheers

Matt

[Donovan83]

So I get that many might loathe audit, but in our case it's been a blessing and we are most grateful for the opportunity.

I may loathe audit but I'm appreciative to the firm. They paid for me to relocate to Perth from Joburg, and again to relocate to Melbourne even though I don't work in audit.

I've chatted to people who like audit... I can see how it can be a nice career for some people and I don't mean to diminish it. I think it's either for you or not, there's very little in between the two extremes.

[AFreshStart]

Donovan,

I get that, but that was 2012, in 2014, given the number of accountants we are seeing making the move or wanting to, how many had that opportunity that weren't in audit?

Out of interest, did you stay at the same level in your move? E.g management for management? Or take a step down, as many seem to be doing, and again, in audit? It just seems to be the best option career wise at the moment. You have a better chance of employment these days in a junior position if you're not in audit than in a senior one with in other areas.

Much has changed in the accounting landscape in Aus in 2 short years, and while you might prefer 'licking toilets' over audit, for many newcomers it might be their only hope of employment and a future for them and their families in Aus.

Cheers

Matt

[DeepFriedMatt]

Wow, feeling the love for audit here. I think my own views are currently pretty well balanced. I only finished articles at the end of last year (and only spent two of these years in audit). I jumped ship as soon as I could and I'm now in commerce at one of the big banks.

For me it was definitely a case of thinking the grass on the non-audit side was MUCH greener. Because being in audit during articles is the first real job that almost all CAs have, I think we sometimes fail to distinguish between what we dislike about working life in general from what we dislike specifically about auditing. At least that was the case for me. Since leaving I have seen that there are certain things I will always strongly dislike in any work environment and that are not exclusive to audit.

Having said that, I still am not passionate about audit and wouldn't peruse it as a long term career. I envy those who genuinely enjoy auditing (yes you do get a few of them!) because the ones I have come across have been extremely happy in their roles and regular promotions and added responsibility is pretty much standard in audit. So if you're enjoying what you're doing then you're pretty much set!

I do however agree with Matt. I have realised that my best shot at starting a new life outside of SA will be with one of the big four and most likely in audit. Which is fine with me. I am grateful to have the opportunity to leave (that is the number one goal at the moment) and I am fairly confident that I will be able to leave and pursue something that interests me more once I have a bit of experience.

One last thing that's also worth mentioning, most people that bitch and moan about auditing (myself included) left as soon as they finished articles. During these three years we were all pretty much slaves, hard working and under paid and generally just acting as a skivvy to the manager and partner. Who in their right mind WOULDN'T hate this experience?? It's pretty harsh to judge the profession as a whole based on such a limited experience (I'm guilty of this myself). But I'm hoping that if I do go back into audit as an assistant manager / manager I will have a new perspective and get exposure to the better aspects of audit like project management, managing a team, client relationship management etc.

That's my 2c worth

[AFreshStart]

Hey Matt,

I totally agree, while I'm not in accounting, finance runs in my family, my eldest brother couldn't wait to get out of audit and has done well for himself moving onto CMA, CFM and now partner in an investment firm. So each to their own.

That said, I agree with you not giving it a chance. My wife was the same, 1st year stories included counting lumps of coal and the koi fish in another corporate client pond... yes, of course it was just to rile the clerks, but she put her head down and grafted. In the early years of our marriage I'd actually relocate to another country of year end because I didn't see her, I'd go and work in the US/UK as she'd be working 7-days a week, 12-14 hour days.

Fast forward 10 years and she now manages a great team, one that has been with her for most of that time, which says a lot about the team, they love working together, have friendships outside of work and she's loved flexing her wings in project management, managing a team and client relationship management. I'm going to be a gushing husband here, but she recently received a medal for her commitment to her firm and bringing in extra client income, managing client relationships etc.

The move to Aus in some ways was to have further experience in finance/insurance and she's been given two major clients to manage, again, gushing husband is most proud of her.

So to each their own, apologies if I get defensive of sticking up for auditors, just think that in many cases it's shortsighted and given the economic climate for those wanting to enter Aus audit seems to be a great way into the market place to gain experience, even if you don't see yourself there long term, but don't look a proverbial gift horse in the mouth.

Cheers

Matt