Is now the right time to Immigrate?

[Theunis]

Hi guys

This is a very open question, but let me put forward my little situation.

I am a CA and a partner in a Firm. Currenlty we do very well financially. Half the time I dont even know what things cost, I just pay. My wife doesnt work and we have 2 young kids. One 2 years old and the other 5 months old.

My working hours are very relaxed and I come and go as I please. From January - July I work from about 8:30 - 16:00 and from August - December 8:30 - 14:00 or sometimes 15:00.

We go on leave whenever we want and go overseas once a year in September.

We live in a 4 bedroom house in a security estate and drive nice vehicles.

We have sumitted and paid for our visas and await the issue of our PR visa if all goes well. We will probably do a LSD visit next year.

My question is this: Do I walk away from life here and if so when is the best time?

I have been following the forum religiously every day and it scares the crap out of me to know that I will probably battle to find work and probably work long hours to feed the family and pay rent.

Many answering this will probably already be settled in Aus so its a bit easier to say jump on the plane.

It is not necessary to remind me about crime, corruption, polotics etc. as I live that every day.

Have any of you walked away from similar situations and preferred the perceived slog in Aus?

[Johnno]

Theunis, I can see exactly what you're doing and it's such a natural thing to seek advice and affirmation for these types of plans. However at the end of the day there's only two people that can answer your question and that it you and your wife and both your answers and determination MUST be exactly the same. Let me assure you that immigrating is the biggest thing that you and your family will ever do. I cannot emphasise enough how you both need to be on the same page. Kids adapt very quickly and they will have new friends before your furniture arrives from SA but you and your wife will be carrying a massive load and only you guys will know how strong and determined you are.

The advice that you'll get from an open forum like this will be from people of very different backgrounds, experiences, circumstances and hence views. There will be people that struggled in SA whether it was to get ahead in their careers or to simply find a job. Their reasons will vary from AA and the state of economy to their own skills and qualifications. Many may be more fortunate here and hence their experiences will be positive. Others may have been affected by crime and that was their driving factor, maybe even very serious crime and for them their views will be different.

We left SA with two young kids (aged 4yrs and 18mnths old) and I took a very mediocre job which I started the day after arriving in Oz (sponsored 457 visa). It was very tough in the beginning and we never thought we'd be able to afford a house, never mind get anywhere near our old SA lifestyle. Childcare was (and still is) unbelievably expensive so my wife was a stay at home Mom. It was pretty tough and she forced herself to meet other Mom's, went to playgroups and even "meet 'n greets" in order to get out of the house and meet people. For the blokes we're okay, we're at work and networking, learning and getting involved but Mom was stuck at home with not much disposable cash and two kids.

Weekends (when I was not working or travelling) were spent exploring new places and experiencing new things. We had our ups and downs but luckily we both never hit bottom at the same time so we were always there to pick each other up. I once joked to a friend that if we ever hit rock bottom together maybe I would be writing these post from my home in Cape Town and not Perth.

Our kids have grown up to be confident young teenagers and my wife works but more for the love of teaching (she did an education assistants course in Oz) and I seized a business opportunity a few years ago (8yrs) that has treated us well.

On the downside my wife and I both have elderly parents in SA who are slowly but surely becoming needy. At times we would give anything to be there to help out. Simple things like taking them to the doctor, helping with some home maintenance or just being around to drop in for a cup of tea or to re-tune their TV which always seems to get messed up whenever they pick up the remote :-) Our kids have grown up without close family. They have lots of cousins, aunts and uncles back in SA who they chat to on Skype. My brother and his family joined us a few years ago so that has been great but the kids do not know what it's like to have a sleepover at granny and grandpa other then when we visit SA and manage to squeeze all those things into a 3 week visit. We are fortunate to be in a position to travel back once a year but we know some people who simply cannot afford the airfare and they have not seen family in years.

If you guys are up for it and you're strong enough to get through setbacks (because there will be lots) bounce back and lift each other up out of the doldrums and you're confident that this is something that you really want to do then trust me, nothing can stop you and you'll be fine and maybe in 10 years time it will be you writing these posts to people asking similar questions. Time goes by but the questions always remain the same.

Good luck.

Johnno

Edited August 21, 2014 by Johnno

[rozellem]

Give yourself a set time (1year?) and save as much money as possible. Sounds like you have room in your budget (is there even a budget?) for pulling in the reigns. Then get here asap.

[Maligso]

My reason is twofold ... a safer future for our boys and a new adventure for us.

[B007]

Great Question ? But If not now when and hopefully not when it is to late.

[Pell]

Same boat, Theunis... Husband runs a nice engineering business, has good hours, I'm a CA, reasonably well paid job etc., we have a pretty good lifestyle, not lavish (by choice) but we don't really say no to much. Plus, hubby is 59 (I'm quite a bit younger). For me, moving is an adventure, for the rest of the family, it is a bit scary, but hubby supports it 100%. I can't explain why, but I feel very positive about it... or maybe I'm just fooling myself. I usually listen to my gut. We visited Australia twice since we got the visa and liked it more each time. Sure, we were appropriately horrified at how expensive everything is and we are preparing ourselves for a drop in our standard of living. Plus, there are days when doubts creep in and I think "what the heck are you doing", which I hear is normal, but despite it all, I can't wait to go...

Is there a right time? I have no idea, but I guess one makes their right time, or adapts it to external factors, like we've had to do.

Anyway, good luck to you with the decision!

[Mara]

Hi Theunis, we can certainly understand, probably because our history is similar to yours. We left at age 44, sold our electrical engineering business that employed 34 People, we were earning well into the six figure salaries, big home and an excellent lifestyle. Our two sons were 17 and 23. We have now been out of RSA for 20, 5 years, unanimously the four of us know it is by far the best decision that we ever made. I agree with Johnno though, to make this a success you both have to be on the same page, you need to want to make the move more than you want to do anything else in your life! Although there is a possibility that you may have a tough time initially, when your children are adults and they are able to pursue the education and career of their dreams, then perhaps you will sit back and say "wow, this move was definitely worth it".

There has never been a moment that we have been sorry or that we have regretted the move, BUT this is your decision and just as no two people are the same, no two decisions will necessarily have the same outcome.

Good luck, I do hope you find the clarity you are seeking.

[Pell]

Wanted to add a quote I think is pertinent:

People underestimate their capacity for change. There is never a right time to do a difficult thing.

John Porter

[Guest May]

Our story. We came 18 months ago, husband is 57 and I am 45. Had good jobs, house paid off, 2 BMWs and money in the bank, sons are now 13 and 15. He was in IT and me Finance. Last year he worked programming in Sydney and then we cleaned in Brisbane. This year he is a nurse's aid and I am back in corporate here in Perth. He is very happy and has a flexible arrangement for shift work and then meets up with SA friends at least once a week and taxis our boys. He didnt want to come for 5 years until I resigned the second time and now he doesn't look back. In my career I had a lovely boss and now I have the Bully from hell.......still its good.

Things are not getting easier in Aus so you have to come prepared not to look back and prepared to work hard. Some have had it easier than others.

[AFreshStart]

Theunis,

Our lives are not too dissimilar in that my wife is a CA in senior management with one of the big 4. I'm a creative strategist, though a couple years ago when our kids were born we took a step back and I became a work-from-home Dad, freelancing, working fewer hours, but maintaining a similar lifestyle, at times on a single income.

We both own new cars, bought cash, have a 3-bedroom house in a nice suburb in Cape Town etc.

But we are giving it ALL up! We have no doubt that this move is the right one for us. My wife was offered a job in the same position with the same first one 2 large clients, which is great move forward for her, having been on the same client for 10+ years, something new & fresh. I might add that we took the plunge before an offer was made, we got out grants and then shared she'd be leaving and they offered to chat to the Aus guys to see if there was potential for employment, so we committed without a job.

I'm going to be a stay-at-home Dad, I'll try freelance where I can, but we are not paying for childcare for our little one, who will be 2 years old. I'd rather spent the time with her than have to work a second job to see much of my salary disappear into childcare and I'm already used to the reduced working hours.

We've sold up here, we leave in just under 2-months and the container is being packed in under 2-weeks.

We are giving up the known for the unknown, but are at total peace about it and excited for our new family adventure and feel it's the best time for us to make the move and to give our children the opportunity to claim Aus citizenship.

We are going to be taking a step back, moving from a house we own to a renting, probably a 2 bedroom flat/terrace, but that's fine, we are adaptable

Cheers

Matt

Edited August 21, 2014 by AFreshStart

[Splinky]

Hi Theunis,

I don't really have any advice for you, nor can I answer your questions, but I just wanted to say that we are in a similar position to you and are taking the plunge- our flight is booked for 16 September.

My hubby is a CA with his own consulting company. His hours are very flexible and he probably only works 20 hours a week or so (obviously not during deadline time!). His company is growing well and he has built up a good name for himself. Prior to establishing his company, he was also a partner at a national firm. I left my job as a doctor to stay home with our 2 year old son as well so we get A LOT of family time, which we love. We live in the same town as both sets of parents and our son adores them.

Hubby has been applying for work in Australia for 3 months now with no luck- he is either "over qualified" or "lacking in Aussie experience". He had one Skype interview with a firm in Canberra but was not offered the position in the end because he does not have citizenship and thus cannot do government work. I am also struggling to find part time employment. We have no family in Australia, but we do thankfully have a handful of friends.

It seems almost silly to give up the life we live here in SA and start back at square one in a new country but, for us at least, the decision is a no-brainer. As you have mentioned, no-one on this forums needs to be reminded of the crime, corruption, poverty etc that we live with here in South Africa, but it cannot be ignored. For us, having an armed robbery at the shopping centre I often visit alone with my 2 year old as well the brutal murder of a distant family member in front of her small child is something that just sealed the deal for us. My brother is a varsity student and has been mugged at knife point several times on campus. Just to avoid (or even lessen the chances) for my son to experience the trauma of any of this, I would move anywhere and sacrifice anything. We know that life in Australia will be vastly different for us and at times very difficult, but we are standing together on this and will hold onto the Lord to provide for us, as He has done before.

Serious issues aside, how many people can say they took a chance on an adventure like this? What an opportunity to be able to live in a first world country, to experience another way of life, and to start new. We can't wait

I pray for wisdom for you and for your wife as you make your decisions. All the best!

[Jay&Gee]

There is no time like the present.

[SurferMan]

Hahaha Theunis,

You asked and boy did you get an array of replies. Lol. As for us, I'm awake at 4am (light sleeper and early riser) listening to some gentle rain and the lullaby sound of a soothing ocean caressing the reef 300m away through my open bedroom window....

Would I go back to my massive house with my private armed guards on the property, luxury cars, game farm, beach property etc? Not chance, zero, nada. We made that call the missus and I and we we don't regret it one minute bar that we didn't do it sooner. Come along mate, it's great here.

[HansaPlease]

I would personally look at a couple of things:

- what are your reasons for leaving?

- are these reasons likely to get better or worse in SA? Have have they gotten better or worse in SA in the last 10 years?

- say your visa class got changed and your chance to move to to Aus was lost, how would you feel?

I always say that those with a comfortable life in SA struggle more to adapt to Aus than those who struggle in SA. I think that has something to do with the disproportionately high salaries that professionals in SA tend to enjoy compared to, say, tradespeople or artisans. In Aus, the playing fields are a bit more level.

You have really want this move to make it work. In terms of when is a good time, personally, I say move now before something changes, or you are affected by crime, or you get sick... I dunno... I look at my sister, they were daunted by the paperwork, "Should we, shouldn't we..." And now, fast forward a few years, that choice has been taken away from them - their age now counts against them and the environment has changed in Aus in respect of their jobs. Now it's too late.

Same with my parents. They still had a chance when my father was working and highly marketable over here for his skills - now he would be considered too old.

I hope you find the answer!

[Bronwyn&Co]

I agree with every word Hansa said, especially.

It does seem to be people who were financially comfortable in SA that struggle the most here.

In addition to the above questions you should ask yourselves whether you are comfortable going back a few years financially. Let's say 5 or 8 years (but with kids). If you are genuinely ok with that it will be a big plus. If not, beware.

In the long run you'll catch up but those few years re-establishing your lives can be daunting.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Bronwyn&Co

[CGP]

Hi Theunis

I am also a CA and am in my 40's with a young child.

My advice would be to stay right where you are and make 100% sure that your kids get the best education that they can. By doing that, you can give them the option to move anywhere in the world should SA deteriorate to unliveable standards.

I moved over in March 2013 and applied for between 150 -200 jobs before accepting something at a level that I was at 10 years ago. You might have a different experience considering you are still in the profession, but from what I understand the auditing market is also very tough. It took me a year to find something at a higher level with better pay. I'm usually a sociable person, but find it fairly difficult to fit in here because I am clearly different, am not crazy about Footy, don't have a reference that isn't a South African one and they don't seem to want to hear about anything South African, and just about everything I say get's responded to by "what did you say".

I miss my old house, space, swimming pool and life-style. Giving up your friends, family and personal history (ie where you went to school, university, all the people you have come across, rugby team, even favourite sport, etc) is a hell of a thing and can't be taken lightly.

You mention that one of the factors in moving is adventure - I think that this is way bigger than adventure and it hasn't been much fun, so my advice is don't get itchy feet and move for the sake of it. If you move, make sure it's because you absolutely believe that SA is not the place to raise children or that there's no future. It's a big lifestyle change and, IMHO, not worth it.

Safety is obviously a massive factor - that's for you to weigh up. In my opinion, that's the only benefit of being here.

Getting over here to gauge for yourself is very important - don't do what I did and rely on google and come over blind.

Good luck with the decision, but for me it sounds like you have it pretty good and I'd suggest that you enjoy what you have.

[SurferMan]

Sorry to hear all that CGP,

I didn't mind taking a step back or three in fact, I went back to doing BA work...I got the Aussie experience box ticked and now after 4 years nobody even asks me if I have Aussie experience, I just either get the job or I don't. I have learnt to slow my speech down a little to under 400 words a minute. it works but I still get asked what I said, but it doesn't bother me one bit. I don't like footy and none of my Aussies mates care that I don't. My experience is almost a polar opposite to yours, weird huh?

[Mara]

This is exactly what I said, everyone has a different experience.

The only thing you have to consider, if you do not come now whilst you have a visa, and you let it expire, THEN be aware, the rules may change and you may well find yourself fifteen years down the line of having no where to go.

I consider what the visa rules were 20 years ago and how much they have changed in that time, as well as the visas that have actually been dropped, all of this you have to keep in mind.

[SurferMan]

Too true Miss Mara!!!

I would rather have than piece of paper and have options than be stuck on EEfrika.

[Bronwyn&Co]

CA's do seem to take a disproportionate drop in their std of living. Do a lot of homework about what you can earn and compare your priorities.

As much money as we have lost moving here (and it's a small fortune), we would probably do it again... ?

Edited August 22, 2014 by Bronwyn&Co

[monsta]

CA's do seem to take a disproportionate drop in their std of living.

I think that's far more true than what people let on here. There isn't a skills shortage like their is in RSA. There are in some specific professions, e.g. Dentists, Oracle Database Administrators, etc.. but CAs are not one of the few skills where there is a shortage here.

I am sure you are aware that there is a fair bit of luck in getting those promotions. When you move to Aus you are just another CA with XXX years experience, no matter what job title you had in RSA. So, you have to get lucky all over again.

I would stick it out in RSA, if I were you. Just be smart about managing your money. For example, invest money off shore, etc... Expect RSA to get worse, that way you won't be caught with your pants down if it does...

[DXB2OZ]

Not to scare anyone, but already people with South African qualifications are battling in some areas - education tends to be generalised and those overseas are not going to care if you went to the best possible private school if they decide that the education of that country is not valid.

We came here because we don't know what will happen in SA in five years time, but are pretty confident where Oz will be in five years time. I love my country and will always love my country, but I want my children to have a guaranteed future - or at least as far as it is possible to guarantee. To me that means an education somewhere where the entire system is globally regarded as pretty good and having a passport that actually enables them to go places. I watched so many times as employers in the Middle East would choose a Brit over a Saffer - why? Because of the passports. Saffers battle travelling for business, there is no flexibility, whereas a Beitish passport got in almost everywhere. Aussie and US same.

We've gone from pretty comfortable to watching the budget very closely, doing our own housework, washing our own car (singular). We're even using public transport into the city because of traffic and parking costs. Am such a stranger to trains, I felt like I was in a Harry Potter movie.

My kids are learning to help out, to vacuum and clean themselves. In the long run, this can only be good for them. We go for walks on the beach, walks around the neighbourhood (in the dark!!!!!!) and ride our bikes. We watch parrots on the lawn and possums on the wires.

Will it take time to adjust - definitely. Do I believe it was worth it - absolutely.

Best of luck to you - whatever you decide.

[Bronwyn&Co]

Maybe that is a good suggestion. Invest offshore and try and delay the process until there's a good nest-egg in Aus. Depending on age it might be a good option.

Plan your move when children are school age so as to avoid childcare costs...?

Edited August 22, 2014 by Bronwyn&Co

[Theunis]

Hi guys

Thank you for the replies. It is always great to get a balanced view, positive and negative and I hope that this helped others out there with similar questions.

Let's see where the road leads me to.

It is so interesting, I am constantly so aware that we all only have such little time on earth and I ask myself:

"Do I leave this life and people in it here and lose them? or Do I shake things up for the second half of my life?"

No real right answer.

If only we knew.....

[Sunnyskies]

Theunis, I was in two minds whether to write on this thread because even 6 years on sometimes I wonder whether it was worth it. On balance though I have to say yes it was and financially we have started to recover but not there yet. We were in a similar sort of spot to you and yes it was a massive step back. I thought it would take 2 years to re-establish myself career wise. It took almost 4 years to have the same title again but I still have to work incredibly hard every day to continue to re-establish my brand in the market.

On the comments about CAs, I'm not a CA but I will say that I meet people in the big 4 quite regularly and I'm amazed at how many non Aussies there are in the big 4 and in their partnership ranks.

My best advice for any professional thinking of making the move, read about building your brand and networking as much as you can, reflect on what you can do better to build your brand in your area and then do it. Work out where you want to be employed and drive all your contacts towards that end goal. Work out where you want your work from (ie your clients) and again drive your personal business development and contacts towards that goal. I know I sound like a marketing person but a lot of what they say is true.

I was slow in following this advice but I try hard to do so now and I do see a difference. It takes a lot of time but if you start on this while still in SA you will be in a better position to rebuild your career on arriving.