Why have private schools in Aus

[Theunis]

Just a quick one......why would there be private schools in Aus if the public schools appear to be so good? Or is there something we actually are unaware of?

[Pell]

I was wondering the same... that was before I visited Australia and chatted to friends in both Sydney and Perth. They all advised me that if I could afford to put my kid in a private school, I should at least do it in the high school years. I think I took that to heart because my daughter will be doing years 11 and 12 in Aus. I'm also very sure that my view would be largely different if she were in primary school. My personal opinion is that it really depends on the kid, if they're bright, cope well and have good work ethic, they will shine no matter what and do well in any reasonably good school. It's also how we as South Africans have been conditioned to think (private school means a good education, which is not always true...). My first prize would have been a good selective school, and I applied for entrance there, but doubt that we will get in since there is an exam to be written and we are not in Aus yet.... So I bought into the whole private school education thing, and I went and applied to those exorbitant private schools (don't know what I was thinking.... ) just because I couldn't leave the last two years of my daughter's schooling to chance....

Edited July 30, 2014 by Pell

[Annelie Siemens]

For us it is about the Christen ethos, and the whole discipline structure and respect etc.. Public schools, don't have bible study is school, where as your private schools are all affiliated to a church group.

Private schools, they have to wear their uniform correctly and with respect, in public, their hair can be in whatever style they want, girls skirts are soooo short.

It's the small things.

Also in private your kids are offered so much more ie: the school our son will be going to next year, they have to learn to play a music instruments in grade 3 and 5.

Also it depends in which suburb you gt a rental, and you might not like the public schools there, so you go private.

[Sunnyskies]

Chatting to a friend this week as I was moaning the cost of private schools his take on it (as a dyed in the wool true blue Aussie) was that if you want your child to go to University the chance of them going is higher if they go to private school. The chance of them doing well in first year is better if they go to public school. On that analysis he was sticking with his kids being in private school - on the basis that he could give them a good kicking to work at Uni, but not much he can do if they don't have the marks to get in.

I don't know how true that really is, but as a South African fully indoctrinated into private school thinking we are sticking with the concept.

[HadEnoughofJuju]

We have a state high school nearby us and suffice to say that my child is not going there for love or money. I will move to an area in the catchment zone of the school we want to get her into when the time comes or if we can afford it we will put her in a private school. Don't be mistaken, there are some really good state schools that have very high standards and are better than some of the private schools in South Africa but that is not the standard. When it comes to primary schools the same applies, the school my daughter is in is better that several of the private schools where we lived back in RSA and I am extremely happy with the standard of education she is getting but that can not be said for all primary schools.Our initial destination had a primary school that from all appearance was awesome and close to the beach but once we landed and spoke to some of the locals we very quickly changed our minds and plans.

The bottom line is you are moving to Australia to provide your kids with a better future, find the school that best suits those goals and then plan the rest of oyu move around that. We had planned on doing things very differently, Find a job then a house then a school but ended up changing that all around to find a good school, get a rental in the catchment area because it was a zoned state school and then find a job.

[rozellem]

...erm, because Aus was a British colony and is in a way a mini version of England (just better, in my opinion). They brought over their style of making certain things private/exclusive as a way to make themselves feel safe, by hoping that they will then associate only with people from their class. You will find it anywhere in the word the Brits had an influence. Some Aussies are quite against the idea of private education. In my circles in Sydney (from parents who were privately educated and not), it doesnt look like the actual work is better/worse, it was more about making "influential" contacts. Government schools, by its nature, will always reflect the community it is situated in. Thus, choose your area wisely.

[Theunis]

Its so interesting. We grew up dirt poor in Boksburg nogal . My mom as a single parent couldnt even really afford to pay public school fees and I turned out running circles around all my friends whom had everything on a silver plate. I didnt take accounting in high school and wouldnt even be looked at by the likes of UJ and somehow I studied partime through Unisa and becane a CA at 24. I guess it does really comes down to the individual and what we accept as being good enough for ourselves.

Thanks for all the info....

[Pell]

Its so interesting. We grew up dirt poor in Boksburg nogal . My mom as a single parent couldnt even really afford to pay public school fees and I turned out running circles around all my friends whom had everything on a silver plate. I didnt take accounting in high school and wouldnt even be looked at by the likes of UJ and somehow I studied partime through Unisa and becane a CA at 24. I guess it does really comes down to the individual and what we accept as being good enough for ourselves.

Thanks for all the info....

Theunis,

I too grew up poor and went to public school (albeit not in SA, but behind the Iron Curtain), had absolutely no accounting background, studied part time at Unisa while working menial jobs and qualified as a CA (not as young as you though ). If anything, that motivated even more to give my kid a private school education, if only to spare her the hardship. But you are absolutely right, in the end it boils down to the individual and what they themselves are capable of doing. I guess as a parent I just want to push her in the right direction, give her a good start, because once they finish school, there is not much else the parent can do....

[Theunis]

Our kids better not decide to move back to SA when they are old enough.....immagine that....

[Tiermelk]

From our research, for the North of Sydney, many public primary schools are as good and sometimes better than private ones.

I agree with Rozelle Private Schools are about making "influential" contacts. "Government schools, by its nature, will always reflect the community it is situated in. Thus, choose your area wisely."

http://bettereducation.com.au/ has some good info.

I do not think this is much different to SA. (except maybe the private school fees! )

Edited July 31, 2014 by Tiermelk

[Bronwyn&Co]

Well my kids go to private school and they have not made any influencial contacts. I'm afraid I think that's just not true. My son's friends parents mostly appear to be really struggling to pay the fees. Living very far away in cheaper areas, 4 kids in a 3 bed one bathroom house, etc. my daughter's friends are very much the same. If I think about it, about 70% of their friends' parents rent their houses. People are making a lot of sacrifices to pay the fees. Maybe it's just their crowd because many of the PPlaters at the school have better cars than I do ?

Edited July 31, 2014 by Bronwyn&Co

[Jordy]

As said by some above, the majority of private schools (if not all I think) are church based schools. Australia is called a post-Christian society, and therefore many migrants with a church background, want their children in at least some kind of religious environment. Even if the parents are not overly religious, many still want their children in a school where the Lord's prayer is said and the Christmas nativity play is religious. These elements combined with strict uniform and hair policies as well as discipline are attractive reasons.

[Bronwyn&Co]

As said by some above, the majority of private schools (if not all I think) are church based schools. Australia is called a post-Christian society, and therefore many migrants with a church background, want their children in at least some kind of religious environment. Even if the parents are not overly religious, many still want their children in a school where the Lord's prayer is said and the Christmas nativity play is religious. These elements combined with strict uniform and hair policies as well as discipline are attractive reasons.

For us it was about discipline and respect, not so much the religion.

[SurferMan]

I would rather eat pap every day than send my kids to a public school. The discipline alone as mentioned above is worth it. I use the train every day to work and the difference in behavior, dress and manner is striking. Public schools----> I dunno why some girls even wear a dress cos you cannot see it, it is so high up! The language is foul as well. (Some generalisations ahead!) The private school kids stand for adults, sit properly, talk in a reasonable volume etc. Granted some are not like this, some cannot afford it and some don't see the benefit to warrant the cost.

I am a firm advocate of Christianity based schools, I can see the difference and to me the cost is worth it. I am humbled to have the privilege to be able to afford it.

[Bronwyn&Co]

I agree with you -sort of- Surferman but sometimes I hear some of those little pvt school darlings swear worse than sailors, they are just better at hiding it in front of adults (or care to).

I'm a firm advocate for govt schools in Primary (if you are lucky enough to be near a nice one). Ours was fantastic. If you can't afford pvt in High School I also think your kids will be fine as long as they have a good home base.

I would most probably go with govt rather than eating pap every day though. I sometines think we are being taken for a ride with the school fees. ?

[rozellem]

Working in Sydney, I had to get a crash course in names of "notable" schools. Imagine my blank stare when a 50+ year old female lawyer told me she sings in the (old girls) choir of PLC. Google told me its Pymble Ladies College. Must say, I hear more unpleasant stories about bullying and eating disorders from the parents of the very top private schools, than from the good public high schools. Maybe, if you pay around 25k a year, you are more vocal about your disappointment. Being a hairdresser, I hear it all. Make no mistake, if you went to Knox Grammar, Barker, Trinity, etc. in Sydney, your old girl/boy status will open doors for you (be it officially or unofficially). I think kids will eventually turn out the way they intend to be. I have a client, who's son was severely bullied at $27k per year Knox). After graduation, he is now doing his plumbers apprenticeship. The head boy of his year is now a personal trainer. No offence to plumbers and personal trainers, but if I spent $27k per year on my sons education, I would hope the returns on my financial investment to be a bit higher.......

Because the private schools have more $$$ coming in, they have to power to grant scholarships and thus bump up their talent. Also, often the academic statistics of a private school can be severely elevated by "hot housing" so their figures look attractive. Courses like medicine now put applicants through a series of test you can simply not prepare for, to separate the robots from the real talent. Of course, if you want your child to be in a language specific school, or a sport, or drama or religious specific, or in a school with a special subject choice, there are a range of schools to choose at your convenience. Rule of thumb round the Sydney Northern Beaches is, the public primary schools are excellent, the high schools need a bit more investigation to get the right fit for your individual child. But I reckon that to be the case all over the world.

[Sibella]

My kids went to public primary school but was on a waiting list for a Christian primary school I liked. So one of my daughters got a place in Grade 1, having completed Prep at the public primary. My eldest stayed at the public primary school from Grade 4 until she finished Year 6 so I have experienced both.

The difference for me was the expectation and academic standard in the private primary school was much higher and they really worked hard to get my daughter up to standard (lol). While her Prep teacher at the public primary was like yea she's doing fine, just fine I quickly realized that she wasn't. Her new school provided extra assistance every day. Her first year was hard work but this year in Grade 2 she is flourishing.

Her school has their own netball and basketball teams (she started playing netball this year) and she is in the choir as well. I love the Christian ethos and values of the school and we also go to the church attached to the school which gives it a real community feel.

My daughter started Year 7 at the Lutheran High School also associated with the church and primary school and the differences between her school and the public school some her friends go to are firstly discipline and uniform, for instance they are not allowed to appear in public without their blazers on so they always look smart while some of the public school kids look really sloppy.

But I must admit I have a friend with kids in a good public high school and they for instance have an outstanding music program and go on overseas trips, so if you choose a good public high school and your child is motivated it should be fine.

So it's all about values and expectations really.

[Sunnyskies]

I agree with most of what is said. I've had my children in private Catholic schools in South Africa, parish primary school here and now Catholic private school for secondary.

Looking at friends children who go to the public schools in our area I can't pick them apart for manners and some of the kids in public school seem to get more homework.

Parish school I would say was pretty iffie and I think I would have been fine sending them to the local state primary school. But parish school was affordable and it seemed like the right thing to do.

So what are you paying for at a private school:

- an ethos (whether Christian, church affiliation, Jewish, cultural background, free spirit - depends on the school). Bear in mind that state schools don't/can't advocate any religious education.

- teachers (the private schools do pay a bit more)

- facilities

- connections (but I think that depends on the school - even if you don't believe so. I watch people connect due to old affiliations from school or Uni all the time)

- drilling kids to get the marks for Uni

- keeping out the riff raff (now that is controversial I know but I think it is a driving force)

- the right to question the school (I've used that right and I know other parents do as well - puts the school on its toes)

Do your kids need to go to private school? No. It is a choice.

[Fish]

The reason many in Australia send their children to private schools in Australia is because they are government funded unlike most nations. This means they are affordable for far more people. This has weakened the public school system, especially in many outer suburban areas. It has also pushed many into religious schools who are not religious. A lot of porkies are told on both sides.

I went through the private system in Brisbane but will most likely put my children through the catchment public high school. There's a bunch of reasons for this:

- If the naplan are to believed our catchment school out ranks many of the suburban private schools. Many private schools also somewhat reflect the demographic of the area they are in, similar to, but obviously not as much as, the public schools. Many of the top performing primary schools are government schools in Brisbane as they simply reflect the demographic of their area.

- The school has good facilities and great excellence programs. It also has strong links with the adjacent university, industry, arts institutions and adjacent creative industries precinct.

- I dislike the system of separating children into religious schools, catholic, mainstream protestant, pentecostal protestant, jewish, islamic etc. I don't think it is good for the country and I don't want to support it if I can help it, even though I understand most of you thinking otherwise and doing so. Additionally, sometimes the local catchment school is not up to standard and leaves you no choice. I would much rather Australia had a world leading secular, universal, very high standard education for all, like some Scandinavian countries and as much as possible leave religion, money and politics at the door. I think these things weaken an education system overall, rather than strengthen it, and are not in the best interests of the country if they become too widespread.

- I like the idea of mixed schools after going to an all boys school myself.

- I like the idea of the school being accountable to an education authority rather than ruled by a select few.

- In my personal experience the all pervading ethic taught at many Australian private schools is status, and I don't think it bought out the best in many I observed, parents included. Of course some good was done as well, I am just talking on balance. Of course not all are like this.

- In my profession after the first job, even the university you went to is barely mentioned as long as you went to one, let alone the school. Industry experience is everything. Some professions may differ of course, but overall I think my experience would be more the norm in this day and age.

Well there is my opinion.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Fish

[Theunis]

I never realized that there were so many things to consider. When I grew up we just went to the nearest school and did what we could with what we had. I suppose it is a very personal thing. The right answer per person is really what you are comfortable with. Success or failure is not guaranteed. You can come from the best family and become a drug addict or a prostitute or a murderer or come from a bad place and become Richard Branson.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Theunis

[monsta]

I studied partime through Unisa and becane a CA at 24.

I hope you have read a few Aussie salary surveys . For example, a guy with a 3 year IT degree would earn the same salary that a CA does. Sure a CA can become a manager or partner in a small or medium sized firm an out earn him. But then the IT guy can be promoted to project manager and out earn even the partner.

Sure there are always a few exceptions... but generally a CA isn't the "highly skilled, highly paid" job it is in RSA. There just isn't the same skills shortage here.

[SurferMan]

Yeah Bron,

Fully agree, hence my disclaimer! Not all of them are angels. The school fees are ludicrous but I feel for where my kids are, fair pay. At the one train station I see some of the kids from a private school and err, the dress code is err, more what you would expect if they were how shall I put it, "working girls.."

We dont have any top notch public schools where we live, so private was our only option.

[Theunis]

@monsta.......Yeah I have noticed thats CA's arent as hot in Aus as they are in SA which is a bit of a problem......suppose I will have to wing it and make a career change if necessary.

[Pell]

@monsta.......Yeah I have noticed thats CA's arent as hot in Aus as they are in SA which is a bit of a problem......suppose I will have to wing it and make a career change if necessary.

@monsta & @Theunis

Yep, noticed that as well.... I have some IT skills and systems implementation and the like, cause it's always interested me so who knows, maybe winging it is not such a bad idea.

I was also a little shocked at the starting salary levels, but then again, I guess once we get some Aussie experience, we will be in a better position to negotiate. (*hopes and prays*)

[SurferMan]

I am in IT and earn a most generous income. Once I go PR it will jump to very high levels cos I can contract out instead of being salaried as I am now. I can that most of the CA's that I know of don't earn high incomes, but still make good money. I earned six figures a month in SA but my quality of life here is off the scale.