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186 ENS & 187 RSMS visas

info; experiences; thoughts queries

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#1 TQO

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:43 PM

I've read tons on the forum about 189's, 190's and 457's (and the older generations thereof), but has anyone got information, experiences or opinions (good and bad) as to the 186 ENS and 187 RSMS visas?

 

  • How it is working or has worked out for you and your family?
  • If a job sponsorship came fairly easy or was it a difficult and lengthy process?
  • Whether the regional/rural areas specification made a vast difference to your lives?
  • And, if you could do it over again, would you have chosen a different visa and why?

 

I would also like to appeal to anyone who can offer me detailed information on what an actual sponsorship entails?

 



#2 Denzil

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:51 PM

I've read tons on the forum about 189's, 190's and 457's (and the older generations thereof), but has anyone got information, experiences or opinions (good and bad) as to the 186 ENS and 187 RSMS visas?

 

  • How it is working or has worked out for you and your family?
  • If a job sponsorship came fairly easy or was it a difficult and lengthy process?
  • Whether the regional/rural areas specification made a vast difference to your lives?
  • And, if you could do it over again, would you have chosen a different visa and why?

 

I would also like to appeal to anyone who can offer me detailed information on what an actual sponsorship entails?

TQO

 

On the other Visa's I can not respond but on what a sponsorship entails...

 

The company/Person that is registered with the immigration that allows them to do a sponsoship is the only one that can do that.

A company that provide you with a sponsorship must prove to the Immigration that he/she could not find someone like you currently and failed to employ some one of your skills.

They must pay a fee in order to be able to sponsor you...now the tricky part.

Some companies especially on the 457...pay for the Visa that allows you to work for them for a period of time (They actually buy you).

Then if all things goed according to plan, the company can sponsor you after two years for a PR Visa...what this means is that the company wish for you to work foir his company till you retire and you will be a great asses to them. Some companies promise this but when the time gets closer some get cold feet as they will also sometimes have to pay the fees for the Visa.

(All this information I spoke now is what a previous company explained to me when I was there for an interview).

 

If I am wrong then I hope that some poeple could straighten it out for me, but that is what I have bee told so its "word of mouth"


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#3 sianvz

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:25 PM

Hi Tara

 

I can let you know my brother's experience on the RSMS visa before July 2012 changes so hope it may help a little, although things have changed so take it with a pinch of salt.

 

He was already in Australia but his employer was not a registered sponsor. I think it does make the process easier and quicker if you can find an employer that is already a registered sponsor, however it's a very quick part of the process and I think it only took a few weeks (maximum a month) for my brother's employer sponsorship registration to be approved so it's not a big hassle.

 

My brother had only worked for them for a few months before they started the visa process. From start to finish including a bit of a delay in getting PCCs couriered and sorted out, it was 4 1/2 months in total from start to grant. I know the 187 RSMS visa has highest processing priority and the 186 ENS visa has second highest priority. I can't remember now if he did a skills assessment, but I know he did have to give a certified copy of his degree, not sure if it was for an formal skills assessment or just for DIAC. But I know with the current 186 and 187 visas you are only exempt if you've worked for the employer for 2 years.

 

There were some very strict rules and regulations. His employer had to sign a 2-year contract stating his nominated occupation and the job description had to match that of the Australian description for that occupation. They also had to agree to the market salary rate and show proof of how they came to that salary. The employer will also very likely be required to provide proof that they have advertised the position and interviewed Australians for the position to show that they are giving Australians a fair chance, however I'm sure Stephen will help you with how your potential employer would go about this. And often if the position is being advertised before you applied for it, chances are they can prove it easily, whereas in my brother's case they had to then post adverts for the job because he was already working for them and they knew they would prefer to hire him because he knew the job, but they had to advertise it and interview other people anyway.

 

My brother is officially free from him obligations this month after 2 years since his visa was granted and says that it has not been too frustrating or stressful being employer sponsored, however he has a potential promotion coming up, which means he may even stay with his employer from here forward. He is in Margaret River, Western Australia and loves living there. In ACT, Western Australia, South Australia and Tasmania the whole state is now considered regional so those are great states to start with if you don't want to be limited to an area. But the other states like Melbourne, it mostly just excludes the greater city centre area.

I am sure that if my brother knew that state sponsorship was an option back then and if his occupation was available which I actually think it was, then he would have gone a different route, just because everyone prefers independent or state sponsored visas because there is less risk and you are not bound by employment. But if it's your only option, at least it is a PR visa and you just have to stick it out for 2 years and then you're a resident and can do as you please and go where you please.


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#4 sianvz

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:30 PM

They must pay a fee in order to be able to sponsor you...now the tricky part.

 

If I am wrong then I hope that some poeple could straighten it out for me, but that is what I have bee told so its "word of mouth"


If you go the RSMS route, according to the 1131i booklet (http://www.immi.gov....oklets/1131.pdf):

- there are no fees for employer nominations lodged through the RSMS


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#5 sianvz

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:32 PM

Tara I should have also added, that should you be let go/retrenched during your 2 year sponsorship period, you will have 28 days to find a new employer to sponsor you for the remaining period of your 2 years. Someone has posted a chat about this on this forum and everyone has given some good input - I think the topic is Retrenched on 457 visa (but same applies to all employer sponsorship).



#6 TQO

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:43 PM

Thanks a mil Sian and Denzil - we are just trying to source as much info as is humanly possible re these three visas, before making a choice, or the choice choosing us IRO sourcing employment. 

 

I was a tad concerned re sponsorships being few and far between, but I think the main thing now is just to find a job and work on the negotiations once we get talking.  We are by no means looking for a meal ticket to get over to Oz, so I am not sure if that carries any weight with the 186/187 visas, but hopefully whatever happens, it has a positive outcome for both us and the employer.

 

My main concern is not being properly informed.  But thank goodness for the forum, because I think I am driving Stephen mad with my daily and lengthy e-mails ;)



#7 SmellyN

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:48 PM

TQO: Read IMMI's Booklet 5....the whole process is detailed in there...read & re-read till you understand...On the RSMS187 the ENS charge falls away. Ré actual getting the job...I really think it depends how well you advertise yourself & how "ready" you are before you are going to get any "hits" of employment...also consider the Skill-Select EOI registration too as a "fishing" ground...many people have had great success this way, BUT till you have IELTS & Skills Assessment at least I doubt people are going to look at you (in a permanent way)... especially as a foreign-Tradesman...the Australian Employers want to at least know you are CAPABLE (even if very vaguely) of doing the work up to Australian (Higher) standards-and their only reference/measure of your worth is the skills assessments. I think I can speak for myself & MANY others who have tried applying to the jobs etc. listed on the sites/ going via agents that offer employment (although you will land up being "cheap" & on a temp. 457 contract more...)The more serious employers are more in line with Government procedure & that takes a while. As to the history...you aren't going to find much, as the July 2012 reforms that came in were the strictest they've been so far i think, that & the fact that they implemented the new SkillSelect EOI invites, so it's pretty much untested ground ré the 186/187 routes/ fairly new...most people go the points route as I've explained to you before. We are doing it now. I see ourselves as "ground-breakers" in the process, because no-one asked before, because it wasn't available under the new conditions like this before, although I'm sure you will begin to see more & more people looking into it. The 186/187 requirement is that the employer must be serious about it enough to offer you employment for a period of a minimum of 2yrs. It is also flexible in other ways (read in Bk 5)Once you've found a possible employer they say it take up to 6mths of negotiations...but I think again it depends how ready you are & how "committed" to the whole emigration process in terms of leaving your RSA responsibilities, you are. Sit down & think about what for example is the minimum salary you'll accept & working conditions etc. (Check out "payscale" to get an idea of your occupation rates) & do as much "homework" on researching your "situations"/variables that you can encounter in the process..i.e. location, one of you employed, both of you employed, 457 etc.
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#8 Eva

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 11:06 AM

Tara I should have also added, that should you be let go/retrenched during your 2 year sponsorship period, you will have 28 days to find a new employer to sponsor you for the remaining period of your 2 years. Someone has posted a chat about this on this forum and everyone has given some good input - I think the topic is Retrenched on 457 visa (but same applies to all employer sponsorship).

 

 

If you come to Australia on a permanent resident visa the same rules as a 457 do NOT apply.  You are still a permanent resident and don't get 28 days to find a new job etc, etc.

 

We came on a RSMS 119 visa which I think sounds like what the 187 RSMS visa was.  It gets tricky when they change the names all the time!

 

So if it is the same, you are 'obliged' to work with your sponsor for the two year period.  There are a number of reasons this does not always work out but it will not affect your permanent residence status.  It is preferred that you continue to live and work in a regional area but I personally know people who moved from regional to the Gold Coast in less than a year and had no problems at all.  And know of plenty of people who left their original employer and found a new job still in a regional area without any time frame involved.  

 

For us coming to Australia as a permanent resident with a job was a win win situation.  You can't underplay how important it is to start earning dollars straight away. I have heard of so many people battling to find jobs for ages and spending all their savings to live off.  And lets be honest, two years flies by before you know it!  So if you are really unhappy where you are you move on....  there are people on the forum who have done that.... Emille did it although I know he waited out his two years before moving on.

 

We have been here for over four years now and have no desire to live in a big city.  We LOVE living in Regional Queensland, admittedly we do not live in a little dorp but a city of almost 150 thousand people.  And it has everything.  And is only 130km from Brisbane.  

 

The tricky part in FINDING the job!  We were very fortunate and my husband was offered a job but there are companies who actively recruit South Africans.  What do you do?  

 

For me, I wouldn't change a thing, our other option was a regular skilled migration visa (can't remember what it was called then) but this was WAY easier and quicker and less stressful.


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#9 sianvz

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 03:10 PM

Thanks for the correction Eva! Read that post on the 457 retrenchment and assumed it was for all employer sponsorships.

I didn't realise there was any leniency with regards to employer sponsorship for the 186 and 187 visas.

 

Although I'm sure same applies as state sponsorship obligations where you mustn't go in thinking you'll just get out of it.


Edited by sianvz, 17 April 2013 - 03:13 PM.


#10 Eva

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:27 PM

Actually friends of ours got SS to ACT and couldn't find jobs there and then settled in Queensland.  I am sure DIAC don't really like it but what can one do if you can't find a job where you planned on going?  



#11 sianvz

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:42 PM

I agree, because they don't guarantee and help you find employment they cannot expect you to hang around unemployed if you have employment opportunities elsewhere. I just know that some people don't take the idea of a moral obligation very seriously and use state sponsorship as a way to get in but never intend to actually go to that state in the first place and I know if the state picks up on that the before your visa is granted then they can revoke your sponsorship. So bottom line is, you should be serious about the employment you end up taking but know that if it doesn't end up to be what you expected it to be then you're not going to get kicked out of the country.



#12 AndreaL

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 04:50 PM

We came on a 457 Tara. We then got 457 sponsorship witj another company and talked to them about sponsoring us for the then 856 which is now the 186, they agreed and we were about to lodge when we got the opportunity to move to Queensland on another 457 to be closer to family, we took that and this company also agreed to 856 sponsorship, there  is no need to wait for 2 years on a 457 before the company can apply for a 186 for you if you have had your skills assessed.

Often the 457 visa is called the try before you buy visa, it gives a company the benefit of having you only able to work for them and if happy you can talk about 186 ( 187 is the same visa but regional and has slightly greater processing priority).

 

My personal advice would be to have an agreement in writing, i.e. that you agree to work for the sponsor for x amount of time and then they will sponsor you for ENS 186 p.r.

Once you have that ENS p.r. if the company closes it is not your fault and you are a resident so are fine to go where you want. Both of these visa's have an ethical and moral obligation to try and complete 2 years of employment with that employer, however there are reasons on both sides that may make that impossible and as long as you are up front with DIAC you usually have no problems.

 

When a company sponsor you they are sponsoring a period of employment, they are under no obligation to pay anything othere than the cost of the sponsorhip application and the visa application......some do offer a relocation amount, or a months accomodation but this should be discussed and put in writing early om.

 

In the case of a 457 the company is liable to pay your return flights if for some reason things don't work out.

 

Sorry I have to go, hence the quick reply, but any specifics you can ask or p.r. me.


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#13 TQO

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 05:01 PM

Thanks everyone for your replies.  It is greatly appreciated!

 

It's always good to hear people's first hand experiences, and after reading the above and verifying certain details info with our agent, I am totally assured of the route to follow.  I think hearing about the scarcity of sponsors had us in a bit of weak spot at one point, but our agent has advised that Quinten has a good trade, and a good CV, so now I just need to throw myself into the job hunting with a vengeance!

 

The skills assessment preparation has kept me super busy for weeks now, but we are submitting same to Vic Uni next week, and then will crack on with EOI preparation, so hopefully things start unfolding at a nice pace from hereon out.



#14 AndreaL

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:09 PM

Sorry Tara, things have just been so hectic for me the last few days, tradespeople, and particularly trades with mining or rig skills are regarded highly. We have lots of projects simmering and about to kick off in Qld and I'm sure it is the same in WA.

Electricians, fitters and boilermakers, as well as welders and plumbers have good work prospects here.


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#15 Jordy

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:12 PM

We came on RSMS visa and it worked really well for us. It is a PR visa which is a huge plus! AFAIK the sponsor merely has to state the position is available for two years (3 years on the ENS option). We did not have to sign a two year contract. The great thing about this visa is that if the company retrenches you, you have permanent residence and would not need to leave. 

 

To arrive with a job is a huge relief. Even if the company is horrible it is only a two year commitment and not the end of the world. I think lots of people who arrive will not be 100% with the first job they land anyway and would stick it out for a while until they settle. 

 

This must surely be the fastest way to PR of all the visas. People on this forum have been granted this visa in TWO days! Thats right two days. But the norm is a few months, maybe 4-6 months. 

 

So pluses:

1. Fast to get

2. It is PR

3. All the benfits of medicare, centrelink etc from day one

4. Guarenteed work on arrival


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